Give Gardai credit card machines

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:19PM #1

In my view, it is time Gardai were empowered to levy on the spot fines with credit card facilities to deal with anti-social behaviour.

Pissing in the street = €125 Sir, and here is your bucket and mop to clean it up.
Vomiting in the street = €125 Ma'am. Visa will do nicely.
Aggressive anti-social conduct in public = €190 or a night in the cells, your choice.

JohnDee · 31-07-2013 08:21PM

and they get to carry the devices around in a holster slung around the hip

downonthefarm · 31-07-2013 08:21PM

half wouldnt know how to work them,well the culchie ones anyways

hfallada · 31-07-2013 08:22PM

They probably will want a price increase for it so no.

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:22PM

JohnDee wrote: »

and they get to carry the devices around in a holster slung around the hip

Breast pocket more like:

http://www.intomobile.com/2011/04/19/square-credit-card-reader-iphone-now-available-apple-store/

paulmclaughlin · 31-07-2013 08:23PM

Less chance the money could go missing I suppose.

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:24PM

hfallada wrote: »

They probably will want a price increase for it so no.

Fines would cover that wouldn't they?

I am pie · 31-07-2013 08:24PM

1. Fair enough
2. What if the person is genuinely sick?
3. How will they make that decision on the spot? What if someone is attacked and the Gardai arrived to see them defend themselves. Will they have an on the spot kangaroo court with whatever witnesses they can round up?

Gardai as judge and jury is an populist awful idea, simplistic lowest common denominator stuff which doesnt allow for context. Why did the offence happen?

I doubt the police would be overly keen in being appointed judge and jury, and would probably prefer to remain on the side of arresting suspects and crime prevention.

Gran Hermano · 31-07-2013 08:25PM

It would likely lead to another blue flu with those chaps in blue demanding a pay rise for having to use new technology.

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:29PM

I am pie wrote: »

1. Fair enough
2. What if the person is genuinely sick?
3. How will they make that decision on the spot? What if someone is attacked and the Gardai arrived to see them defend themselves. Will they have an on the spot kangaroo court with whatever witnesses they can round up?

Gardai as judge and jury is an populist awful idea, simplistic lowest common denominator stuff which doesnt allow for context. Why did the offence happen?

I doubt the police would be overly keen in being appointed judge and jury, and would probably prefer to remain on the side of arresting suspects and crime prevention.

You can have the option of your day in court by refusing the fine and getting arrested, just as you can for a traffic offence.

Pissing in public can't really have much of a defence now can it?

As to being genuinely ill, what do you suppose the chances are that you suddenly got ill at 3am in Temple Bar and it wasn't drink related...? A quick sniff of the vomit would tell you it was booze.

Conmaicne Mara · 31-07-2013 08:30PM

After the dealings I've had with them over the past few years I wouldn't give them the fúcking time of day.

downonthefarm · 31-07-2013 08:32PM

what do we give to a group already on a power trip?more power.................

hatrickpatrick · 31-07-2013 08:33PM

MadsL wrote: »

Pissing in the street = €125 Sir, and here is your bucket and mop to clean it up.

Completely oppose all bans on pissing in public until and unless we get some 24 hour public toilets in Dublin City. Can't have it both ways.

Weevil · 31-07-2013 08:34PM

These powers would probably require six months extra training in Templemore and a technology allowance.

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Completely oppose all bans on pissing in public until and unless we get some 24 hour public toilets in Dublin City. Can't have it both ways.

True dat.

I actually just read an interesting article which changes my view somewhat...

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/josie-appleton/pavement-injustice-tyranny-of-on-spot-fines

A pilot study found that many penalty notices for disorder were being issued for offences which would not have reached a court. One study found that only between a quarter and a half of PNDs went to offenders who would otherwise have been cautioned or prosecuted, suggesting that at least half would not.

No Pants · 31-07-2013 08:38PM

Give card machines so that they can use them to fine people who probably don't have cards...

sdanseo · 31-07-2013 08:38PM

Good idea - make it a reduced rate for paying on the spot.

For example:

€75 if you pay on the spot.
€100 if you pay within 28 days.
€125 if you pay within 56 days.
€250 if convicted and fined.

hatrickpatrick · 31-07-2013 08:40PM

sdeire wrote: »

Good idea - make it a reduced rate for paying on the spot.

For example:

€75 if you pay on the spot.
€100 if you pay within 28 days.
€125 if you pay within 56 days.
€250 if convicted and fined.

Have to say I've always disagreed with higher fines for losing in court. It discourages people who might have a legitimate case from standing up for themselves. If the potential loss is higher from fighting your case, most people will settle even when they know they shouldn't. That's messed up.

sdanseo · 31-07-2013 08:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have to say I've always disagreed with higher fines for losing in court. It discourages people who might have a legitimate case from standing up for themselves. If the potential loss is higher from fighting your case, most people will settle even when they know they shouldn't. That's messed up.

I agree, but that's a separate issue entirely. I was basing my post on the existing structure (+100% if convicted) with a slight adjustment to the increase in amount if you pay within 56 days rather than 28 (+33% instead of +50%).

RichT · 31-07-2013 08:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

Aggressive anti-social conduct in public = €190 or a night in the cells, your choice.

I'll have a night in the en-suite with a full Irish in the morning please!

hatrickpatrick · 31-07-2013 08:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

Pissing in public can't really have much of a defence now can it?

Yes actually it can. Walking home from a night out from the city centre to Sandycove, 'bout a one and a half to two hour walk if you step on it. Not a single public toilet between town and Sandycove so I took a piss against a wall in Blackrock. If I'd been caught I'd happily have gone to court to argue my case:

Not my fault in the slightest if our government(s) aren't bothered to provide the most basic public facilities. We must be the only capital city in Europe in which it's impossible to take a piss anywhere after 4AM when all the clubs have closed. Ridiculous.
I fully support anyone who pisses in public until and unless this is addressed.

ted1 · 31-07-2013 08:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

In my view, it is time Gardai were empowered to levy on the spot fines with credit card facilities to deal with anti-social behaviour.

Pissing in the street = €125 Sir, and here is your bucket and mop to clean it up.
Vomiting in the street = €125 Ma'am. Visa will do nicely.
Aggressive anti-social conduct in public = €190 or a night in the cells, your choice.

Collecting fines is outside of their remit

Mr Whirly · 31-07-2013 08:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

Pissing in public can't really have much of a defence now can it?

If there was any public toilets provided there would be no defence. Not nice but if you're piseed if you gotta go you gotta go.

I am pie · 31-07-2013 08:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

You can have the option of your day in court by refusing the fine and getting arrested, just as you can for a traffic offence.

Pissing in public can't really have much of a defence now can it?

As to being genuinely ill, what do you suppose the chances are that you suddenly got ill at 3am in Temple Bar and it wasn't drink related...? A quick sniff of the vomit would tell you it was booze.

I´ll direct you back to "1. Fair Enough" I haven't defended that.

Perhaps someone went out, wasn't feeling great and had a few drinks and got sick. Perhaps they over ate, had a few pints and it made them sick. Minority cases yes, but hardly worth a fine. A sniff of booze is not giulty beyond reasonable doubt.

I think you would fine almost everyone will elect to have their day in an already over congested court system so no one will win there, except for the lawyers. I guarantee you that turning up with a written apology, a donation to someone and a word with the seargeant would get your case struck off very quickly

The investment in technology, the detrimental effect on an over congested court system and the widespread opportunities for unjust sentencing and abuse make this a non runner. Populist nonsense.

These daft knee jerk solutions all mask the unwillingness to attempt to actually deal with the root cause of these and many other public order offences, people drinking until they have lost control. Fines which you can put on the long finger by contesting them in court will definitely not solve that problem.

Rasheed · 31-07-2013 08:49PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

half wouldnt know how to work them,well the culchie ones anyways

Yup, our culchie currency is turf and spuds, none of that fandangled technology.

OP I think it's a great idea. Few glitches would need to be ironed out but still a great idea.

MadsL · 31-07-2013 08:53PM

I am pie wrote: »

I´ll direct you back to "1. Fair Enough" I haven't defended that.

Perhaps someone went out, wasn't feeling great and had a few drinks and got sick. Perhaps they over ate, had a few pints and it made them sick. Minority cases yes, but hardly worth a fine. A sniff of booze is not giulty beyond reasonable doubt.

I think you would fine almost everyone will elect to have their day in an already over congested court system so no one will win there, except for the lawyers. I guarantee you that turning up with a written apology, a donation to someone and a word with the seargeant would get your case struck off very quickly

The investment in technology, the detrimental effect on an over congested court system and the widespread opportunities for unjust sentencing and abuse make this a non runner. Populist nonsense.

These daft knee jerk solutions all mask the unwillingness to attempt to actually deal with the root cause of these and many other public order offences, people drinking until they have lost control. Fines which you can put on the long finger by contesting them in court will definitely not solve that problem.

What is your solution for that? Not saying you are wrong, but certain areas of Dublin are piss smelling vomit holes on a Sun morning.

Toilets are one solution, but even with Dublin supplying temporary toilets in these areas is seems somehow socially acceptable to piss in public up against any wall, even if people live there.

Mr Whirly · 31-07-2013 08:54PM

MadsL wrote: »

What is your solution for that? Not saying you are wrong, but certain areas of Dublin are piss smelling vomit holes on a Sun morning.

Toilets are one solution, but even with Dublin supplying temporary toilets in these areas is seems somehow socially acceptable to piss in public up against any wall, even if people live there.

I have never seen a public toilet in Dublin.

Mike 1972 · 31-07-2013 09:01PM

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I have never seen a public toilet in Dublin.

About thirty years ago Local authorties across Ireland closed down public toilets in an attempt to eradicate homosexuality ?

AndonHandon · 31-07-2013 09:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have to say I've always disagreed with higher fines for losing in court. It discourages people who might have a legitimate case from standing up for themselves. If the potential loss is higher from fighting your case, most people will settle even when they know they shouldn't. That's messed up.

An absolute no to this, for the following reason;

if you have a legitimate case then you won't have to pay a fine. The threat of a higher fine is to deter those chancing their arm. If it was a lower fine then who would bother paying an on-the-spot fine? You could just refuse to pay, get taken to court, represent yourself and then will be left with a lower fine then what was issued on-the-spot.

keith16 · 31-07-2013 09:08PM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

It would likely lead to another blue flu with those chaps in blue demanding a pay rise for having to use new technology.

Actually, that's a very cheap shot considering a "blue flu" is rarely called.

Expect better from you tbh.

hatrickpatrick · 31-07-2013 09:16PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

An absolute no to this, for the following reason;

if you have a legitimate case then you won't have to pay a fine. The threat of a higher fine is to deter those chancing their arm. If it was a lower fine then who would bother paying an on-the-spot fine? You could just refuse to pay, get taken to court, represent yourself and then will be left with a lower fine then what was issued on-the-spot.

I never said lower, I said the same.
I got fined for having no DART ticket last year after the vending machine repeatedly refused the coins I was putting in and I was late for my bus to Electric Picnic, had there not been the threat of a criminal conviction and a much higher fine I definitely would have gone to court as the fine was utterly unreasonable. Deterring people from going to court even when they have a very valid case is ridiculous.

Give Gardai credit card machines

Should Gardai be issued with CC machines to collect on the spot fines 192 votes

Comments