Why do we have an army?

DazMarz · 30-07-2013 07:29PM

OK, our boys in uniform might not be overseas like their counterparts in the USA and the UK. But for my money, that is a good thing! I don't particularly want to see young Irish men being given a uniform and a gun and being sent into the desert. Having seen scenes in an American airport with kids (yes, they were pretty much kids) being sent off in their desert fatigues and leaving behind a sobbing family who knew they might never see their beloved son/daughter again, it is not a scene I would want to see being played out on a concourse in Dublin or Cork airport.

But the fact of the matter is, despite all the idiotic jokes I might make from time to time, that the Irish Army is essential in this country. They are a vital back up to the Gardaí in dealing with bomb threats and paramilitary activities.

It was also not so long ago when public transport workers or binmen or whomever went on strike, that the Army stepped in and kept this country moving. Contrast this to the UK (who have an infinitely larger armed force at their disposal) in the late 1970's when the country was on its knees and rubbish was collecting in mountains around the cities' streets. Their army was never called in. We used our army to keep the country moving at a time when it was threatening to grind to a halt.

I know a few lads who have joined the army. It is no joke. They are trained and drilled and mercilessly battered into shape. They develop a true espirit-de-corps and can be called upon to serve this country however it may need them.

While the threats of country-halting strikes may have abated somewhat, and the threat of the IRA/INLA/UVF/whomever is not as great as it was 30-40 years ago, there is still a chance. And we may be glad that we have a well-trained, dedicated force that would step in and do a service for this country and its people.

Add in the UN Peacekeeping missions. The Irish Armed Forces are very highly thought of for these actions; they are very well trained and equipped and they are always professional while on these missions.

Add to that: the Irish Army Ranger wing is one of the best Special Forces units in the world, training with the likes of the SAS and the SEALs. They are ready to be called upon (in tandem with the ERU and the RSU) to deal with hostage threats, terrorist activities and so on.

There is room for reform, of course there is, but to say that we don't need an army is not wise. This country needs its army. The Defence Forces need to be reformed, streamlined and improved.

the_syco · 30-07-2013 11:00PM

Each time the DF budget is cut, some important part is disabled, and 20 years later when the **** hits the fan, they have to claim to get medical expenses covered.

Red Pepper · 31-07-2013 02:16PM

DazMarz wrote: »

Add to that: the Irish Army Ranger wing is one of the best Special Forces units in the world, training with the likes of the SAS and the SEALs. They are ready to be called upon (in tandem with the ERU and the RSU) to deal with hostage threats, terrorist activities and so on.

Have you a link or action to back this up? It's one thing training with the SAS or watching re-runs of Steve Seagal movies...
Personally I would be very afraid if an elite unit of the Irish forces was brought in to rescue me from a hostage situation.

Ghost Buster · 31-07-2013 02:21PM

F35 wrote: »

To defend the Irish state against armed aggression.

To give aid to the civil power (ATCP). This means that the Army assists, when requested, the Garda Síochána, who have primary responsibility for law and order in Ireland.

To participate in multinational peace support, crisis management and humanitarian relief operations in support of the United Nations peacekeeping missions, and EUFOR (UN-sanctioned peacekeeping missions only).

To carry out other duties which may be assigned to them from time to time. For example, assistance on the occasion of natural disasters, assistance in connection with the maintenance of essential services, etc.

And they looked for extra pay for doing a bit during the big freeze a few winters back...:rolleyes:

It wasn't me! · 31-07-2013 02:22PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Have you a link or action to back this up? It's one thing training with the SAS or watching re-runs of Steve Seagal movies...
Personally I would be very afraid if an elite unit of the Irish forces was brought in to rescue me from a hostage situation.

You do realise that they've done it before, with absolute textbook precision?

tdv123 · 31-07-2013 02:39PM

Well their main role has been to do Britain's dirty work for them. During the the counter-revolution of 1922-23 instead of the British Army sending their own forces in & potentially being ambushed the Free State forces where sent in instead to take care of the "rats".

Again the same sort of situation was done during 69 - 97 war. The British forces were going to be allowed into the South but the Free State forces who were heavily supported by the west-brit media here started rounding up Irish men & women and extradited them to the UK, so again doing Britain's dirty work for them.

So basically their main role is to help Britain rule Ireland by proxy. Fine good job of it they've done as well, Sir Henry Wilson would be very proud of them.

madel · 31-07-2013 03:07PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Have you a link or action to back this up? It's one thing training with the SAS or watching re-runs of Steve Seagal movies...
Personally I would be very afraid if an elite unit of the Irish forces was brought in to rescue me from a hostage situation.

Well I think the rescue mission in sierra leone is a good example. 20 people rescued, kidnappers captured, not one shot fired. Seems like a a good outfit.

If you contrast this with an attempt by the SAS recently to release a hostage; hostage dead, kidnappers escaped.

Also ARW snipers came second this year in the international marksmanship competition, first place were SFOD-Delta. Thats the standard that they're at.

Red Pepper · 31-07-2013 03:10PM

madel wrote: »

Well I think the rescue mission in sierra leone is a good example. 20 people rescued, kidnappers captured, not one shot fired. Seems like a a good outfit.

If you contrast this with an attempt by the SAS recently to release a hostage; hostage dead, kidnappers escaped.

Also ARW snipers came second this year in the international marksmanship competition, first place were SFOD-Delta. Thats the standard that they're at.

So why do they train with the sloppy SAS?

madel · 31-07-2013 03:10PM

tdv123 wrote: »

Well their main role has been to do Britain's dirty work for them. During the the counter-revolution of 1922-23 instead of the British Army sending their own forces in & potentially being ambushed the Free State forces where sent in instead to take care of the "rats".

Again the same sort of situation was done during 69 - 97 war. The British forces were going to be allowed into the South but the Free State forces who were heavily supported by the west-brit media here started rounding up Irish men & women and extradited them to the UK, so again doing Britain's dirty work for them.

So basically their main role is to help Britain rule Ireland by proxy. Fine good job of it they've done as well, Sir Henry Wilson would be very proud of them.

Ah I see you've half read some history books and are spoon fed 1970's An Phoblacht for breakfast. Sorry that the army riddled Dessie O Hares car with bullets, god forbid they would have stopped this 'republican hero' from chopping more peoples fingers off

madel · 31-07-2013 03:12PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

So why do they train with the sloppy SAS?

So the SAS can learn how its done:D

Christ the Redeemer · 31-07-2013 03:21PM

We should build a defence industry. Like Israel. in the space of a half century they went from a bunch of commies living in communes to one of the most advanced nations on earth!

It might not be great for the poorer Israelis, the Palestinians or the US tax payer. but that's the price of progress, I'm told, by people at the Mises Institute.

Larbre34 · 31-07-2013 03:24PM

madel wrote: »

Well I think the rescue mission in sierra leone is a good example. 20 people rescued, kidnappers captured, not one shot fired. Seems like a a good outfit.

If you contrast this with an attempt by the SAS recently to release a hostage; hostage dead, kidnappers escaped.

Also ARW snipers came second this year in the international marksmanship competition, first place were SFOD-Delta. Thats the standard that they're at.

Agreed, they are referenced with great respect in the military world.

All credit to the late Lt General Dermot Earley and his pioneering colleagues who in the 1970s travelled to train with US Army Rangers and came home to establish the Irish unit from scratch, with the highest standards of entry, skill and operation - as it is to this day. They are also highly resourced in weapons and vehicles.

You'd never want to see the Rangers operating in Ireland as it would mean some dreadful sh!t had hit the fan, however if an incident needing anti-terrorist or commando response ever did occur you can be assured we are well served.

gallag · 31-07-2013 03:32PM

madel wrote: »

Well I think the rescue mission in sierra leone is a good example. 20 people rescued, kidnappers captured, not one shot fired. Seems like a a good outfit.

If you contrast this with an attempt by the SAS recently to release a hostage; hostage dead, kidnappers escaped.

Also ARW snipers came second this year in the international marksmanship competition, first place were SFOD-Delta. Thats the standard that they're at.

You might want to explane the circumstances of these two very different rescue scenarios, is it possible the ARW mission which involved hostages safely contained in a steel shipping container and two combatants captured without any shots fired was different to the SAS mission?

tdv123 · 31-07-2013 03:38PM

madel wrote: »

Ah I see you've half read some history books and are spoon fed 1970's An Phoblacht for breakfast. Sorry that the army riddled Dessie O Hares car with bullets, god forbid they would have stopped this 'republican hero' from chopping more peoples fingers off

I've never bought or read one issue of An Phoblacht. I don't need to read books to figure out how the world works. The Shinners of the 80's & 90's had a very different goal to the ones of the 1910's. Sinn Fein just got lucky that the Rising was blamed on them. The Adams/McGuinness leadership wanted position's of power, they just used the Republicans & the 1918 general election results as an excuse to get to where they wanted.

Read anything good in the Indo lately?

WanabeOlympian · 31-07-2013 03:56PM

Every small country is Europe similar to our size has an army. Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium... Our army is tiny, I think it's only 10,000. Expenditure on the army is very low isn't it? Also, those other countries have an air force with fighter jets. We have an air corps with propeller aeroplanes :P

Why do we have an army?

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