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Fianna Fáíl Senator: Hitler and Mussolini were "Good Christians"

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Comments

  • #32
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/dougkrieger/times_and_seasons/catholics_salute_hitler.JPG


  • #33
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    just like the 9/11 bombers may have been good Muslims.

    No they weren't,your average day to day Muslim in any part of the world will curse them.


  • #34
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Mussolini didn't have a hand in the WW2 atrocities. Italy had no desire to enter global conflict at that stage, Fascio Italiani Di Combattimento had Jewish members and many Jews fled south when the horrors began. He was an atheist from his early adulthood, A student of Nietzsche, that's where fascism developed from, 'The supreme egotist who defied both God and the masses.'

    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Look things up man, Mussolini despised the Catholic Church. He denounced it for it's 'authoritarianism and refusal to allow freedom of thought'

    Ironic in many ways I know, he was living out the concept of the 'Superman' from the teachings of Nietzsche.

    Remember Fascism originated with him, Hitler further developed his ideas's.

    Stop saying 'teachings of Nietzche' as if he was the founder of a cult movement or something.

    I also hope there's no insinuation between a link of atheism and fascism.
    Nietzsche lived his remaining years in the care of his mother until her death in 1897, after which he fell under the care of his sister Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche until his death in 1900.

    As his caretaker, his sister assumed the roles of curator and editor of Nietzsche's manuscripts. Förster-Nietzsche was married to a prominent German nationalist and antisemite, Bernhard Förster, and reworked Nietzsche's unpublished writings to fit her husband's ideology, often in ways contrary to Nietzsche's stated opinions, which were strongly and explicitly opposed to antisemitism and nationalism (see Nietzsche's criticism of antisemitism and nationalism). Through Förster-Nietzsche's editions, Nietzsche's name became associated with German militarism and Nazism, although later twentieth-century scholars have attempted to counteract this misconception of his ideas.

    And...
    The term Übermensch (Superman) was used frequently by Hitler and the Nazi regime to describe their idea of an Aryan master race; a form of Nietzsche's Übermensch became a philosophical foundation for the National Socialist ideas. Their conception of the Übermensch, however, was racial in nature. The Nazi notion of the master race also spawned the idea of "inferior humans" (Untermenschen) which could be dominated and enslaved; this term does not originate with Nietzsche. Nietzsche himself was critical of both antisemitism and German nationalism. In defiance of these doctrines, he claimed that himself and Germany were great only because of "Polish blood in their veins", and that he would be "having all anti-semites shot" as an answer to his stance on anti-semitism. Nietzsche also was one of the earliest intellectuals to call racism a hoax.

    QED


  • #35
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Links234 wrote: »
    http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/dougkrieger/times_and_seasons/catholics_salute_hitler.JPG

    That pic was faked. They're obviously just waving goodbye











































































    to Hitler


  • #36
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Links234 wrote: »
    http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/dougkrieger/times_and_seasons/catholics_salute_hitler.JPG

    Ahh here Links, would you look where you pulled that from:


    http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ :pac:


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  • #37
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    Nice one taking the man out of context. There's enough real stuff to hang most of these people without making things up.

    If anybody's looking for genuine sympathy with Hitler from an Oireachtas member, try this:

    "How is it that we do not see any of these [Emergency Powers] Acts directed against the Jews, who crucified Our Saviour nineteen hundred years ago, and who are crucifying us every day in the week? How is it that we do not see them directed against the Masonic Order? How is it that the I.R.A. is considered an illegal organisation while the Masonic Order is not considered an illegal organisation? [...] There is one thing that Germany did, and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is the honey, and where the Jews are there is the money."
    —Oliver J. Flanagan*, maiden speech in Dáil Éireann, 9 July 1943.

    *Oliver J. Flanagan was subsequently invited to join the Fine Gael party, where he became a party stalwart. His son "inherited" his seat and remains a senior Fine Gael politician.


  • #38
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Stop saying 'teachings of Nietzche' as if he was the founder of a cult movement or something.

    I also hope there's no insinuation between a link of atheism and fascism.

    I never made such a link, why would that offend you anyway? Many important 20th century men across different creeds and cultures studied Nietzche, obviously different minds will have different interpretations of his words but you can't mask the general theme of his writing. I myself have read Nietzche and find his work to be intriguing.

    Can you not get that, men who came after were influenced by what he wrote. Art is open to different interpretation.


  • #39
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    No they weren't,your average day to day Muslim in any part of the world will curse them.

    For the average Muslim yes, I agree. However, the will of Allah is relatively ambiguous. They obviously believed what they were doing was the right thing for a Muslim to do, hence they were good Muslims in a sense.

    The same comparison could be made with a Christian knight during the crusades. Obviously felt he was promoting and protecting Christianity (and was acting under orders from the supposedly infallible leader of the Christian church), despite it conflicting with many modern interpretations of Christianity.


  • #40
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Labour TD Michael McNamara, when voting on one of the most important bills in recent years - "I pressed the wrong button".
    There were only TWO fcuking buttons - yes, and no. You were TOLD to press yes. It couldn't be simpler, and yet, somehow he still manages to fcuk it up.

    Or he lied...


  • #41
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    As would have the good christians who carried out genocide in the Americas and Australia.

    "Good Christians" have done lots of ****ty things.

    Nowadays, perpetrators of such heinous acts get punished by war crime tribunals.

    Back in the day, they got "punished" with church positions and sainthoods.


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  • #42
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    Nothing to see here, move along there now

    There you are now - fyp. :)


  • #43
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Itzy wrote: »
    Ah here, why argue semantics.
    Obviously, you're anti-semantic.


  • #44
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    Obviously, you're anti-semantic.

    Mod warning: Racism not tolerated. :D


  • #45
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    I never made such a link, why would that offend you anyway? Many important 20th century men across different creeds and cultures studied Nietzche, obviously different minds will have different interpretations of his words but you can't mask the general theme of his writing. I myself have read Nietzche and find his work to be intriguing.

    Can you not get that, men who came after were influenced by what he wrote. Art is open to different interpretation.

    You said fascism developed from Nietzsche. That's a false claim.

    Yes, individuals can interpret writers gone by, but you made an unsubstantiated claim that Nietzsche was the source for fascism.

    And a link between atheism and fascism is also a false link, so yes, I'd take exception to that too.


  • #46
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    You said fascism developed from Nietzsche. That's a false claim.

    Yes, individuals can interpret writers gone by, but you made an unsubstantiated claim that Nietzsche was the source for fascism.

    And a link between atheism and fascism is also a false link, so yes, I'd take exception to that too.

    Benito Mussolini studied Nietzsche and it influenced what he created sure, Mussolini was the source not Nietzsche. Remember it's just another form of rule anyway there was no evil intentions behind it's creation. Today Democracy might be the best of a bad lot. Over implementation of that can also lead to disaster, it's open to massive corruption and manipulation.

    Mussolini was an atheist, Look at the thread title, I'm not making a general link between fascism and atheism.


  • #47
    camel jockey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭camel jockey


    Was Mussolini also a dog lover and vegetarian?


  • #48
    losthorizon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Terry Leyden of Fianna Fáil described these two fascists who were responsible for a war that killed tens of millions and the genocide of 6 million Jews as "Good Christians". :mad:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/senator-describes-hitler-and-mussolini-as-good-christians-987948-Jul2013/#comment-1368481

    Intelligent bunch of lads FF are.

    I hate FF and have never voted FF but that's not what he said. I'm not sure why he got into the subject at all as some people will obviously try to misinterpret him like the OP. Mussolini wasnt anti jewish at all (although fighting on Hitlers side certainly didnt help their cause) and he had a jewish mistress and as far as I am aware there were jewish members in his cabinet I seem to remember reading.

    Bulgaria during ww2 is the country that can be most proud of itself for saving virtually its entire jewish population. They played every trick in the book to fool the Germans.


  • #49
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Statements like this are more reasons why Irish politics sucks. And why the senate should be abolished (or reformed). Dictators like these getting any kind of praise is wrong and maybe there are some in Irish politics who think along those lines!


  • #50
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    BuilderPlumber wrote: »
    Statements like this are more reasons why Irish politics sucks. And why the senate should be abolished (or reformed). Dictators like these getting any kind of praise is wrong and maybe there are some in Irish politics who think along those lines!

    I don't know why you think this justified resurrecting the thread.

    As regards, "Statements like this are more reasons why Irish politics sucks"; give me one national parliament you know of where you wouldn't hear this sort of rubbish (or worse)?


  • #51
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    I don't know why you think this justified resurrecting the thread.

    As regards, "Statements like this are more reasons why Irish politics sucks"; give me one national parliament you know of where you wouldn't hear this sort of rubbish (or worse)?

    I did not see this previously and now that we get a chance to get rid of the Seanad, I have been looking up that wretched excuse of a thing. It is sad that none of the other countries' parliaments are any better and all these politicians think they can say what they like and get away with it.

    If someone in politics in say Germany, Austria, Russia, Iran or America said something even vaguely praising Hitler, there would be an international outcry and it would be used as propaganda when needed! The fact that an Irish politician said something does not seem to get attention.

    But between this and David Norris' rants (I'm glad he is not president!), the Seanad and its members are not doing themselves any favours. While I would prefer to see it reformed, I will vote for it to be abolished as we do not need it in its current form and be listening to insufferable knowalls and blundering culchies akin to Pat Shortt's politician characters.


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  • #52
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    floggg wrote: »
    "Good Christians" have done lots of ****ty things.

    Nowadays, perpetrators of such heinous acts get punished by war crime tribunals.

    Back in the day, they got "punished" with church positions and sainthoods.

    I think you'll find Bliar and Bush still walking around freely.


  • #53
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I think you'll find Bliar and Bush still walking around freely.

    True. It is not ok for Saddam to invade Kuwait or for Serbia to wage war on its ethnic minority in Kosovo. But it is ok for the US/EU countries to invade Iraq twice, Serbia, Afghanistan and Libya and for Israel to wage war on its ethnic minorities and on Lebanon.

    Once the West or a Western ally do evil, it is ok but when something is done by someone else, it not.

    Bush and Blair were two fanatic war mongers whose wars have ruined the world. Apart from Serbia, the other places are a total mess: Afghanistan still remains under the control of various gunmen including the Taliban, Iraq is plagued by war and corruption and is far from being a perfect democracy (admittedly, safer now than say 6 or 7 years ago but still not safe) and the damage done by the Axis of Evil speech is still felt.


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