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Changing rooms

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  • 01-07-2013 9:29pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi a member at the tennis club expressed views as to how some people are uncomfortable sharing the changing rooms, shower area with gay men. He would probably say that he was expressing the views of others and not his own, but he seemed to condone them. Felt upset and couldn't concentrate on my match. A lot of outward acceptance, but beneath the veneer, still a lot of homophobia. Upset.


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    #2
    azezil
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    I'm gay but I don't want other guys perving on me in the shower room either, does that make me homophobic too? o.O


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    #3
    paulmorro
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭paulmorro


    azezil wrote: »
    I'm gay but I don't want other guys perving on me in the shower room either, does that make me homophobic too? o.O

    Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they'll be perving.


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    #4
    playedalive
    Closed Accounts Posts: 750 ✭✭✭playedalive


    Sporyspice wrote: »
    Hi a member at the tennis club expressed views as to how some people are uncomfortable sharing the changing rooms, shower area with gay men. He would probably say that he was expressing the views of others and not his own, but he seemed to condone them. Felt upset and couldn't concentrate on my match. A lot of outward acceptance, but beneath the veneer, still a lot of homophobia. Upset.

    That's just BS. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're constantly on the prowl/cruising. It's just male insecurity. If they were comfortable in their own sexualities, they wouldn't bat an eyelid to showering with an out gay man. :rolleyes:


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    #5
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Sporyspice said someone came to him and said some people are uncomfortable sharing changing rooms with gay men in general. He didnt say gay men if they are doing anything in particular or individual gay men, or a certain kind of gay man, just gay men - in general.
    Also sporyspice is telling us he was upset by this.
    sporyspice
    some people are uncomfortable sharing the changing rooms, shower area with gay men

    azezil it seems, quickly identify s with those who want no gay men in the mens changing room and goes even further, he tells us he imagines a situation with guys perving on him in the shower and imagines the objectors would not like that either. He asks
    does that make me homophobic too?

    Id say the answer is yes and I know you probably dont like this word but its called internalised homophobia


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    #6
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Is this not the very reason we have separate male & female changing rooms?

    Though I'm not sure if any satisfactory solution to this issue is possible other than people get over themselves.


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    #7
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    tbh i'd have no issue sharing changing rooms with anyone gay, straight, woman etc and i'ms sure they're have been plenty in my gym.

    seems a bit $hit OP tbh


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    #8
    brownej
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    Is this not the very reason we have separate male & female changing rooms?

    Though I'm not sure if any satisfactory solution to this issue is possible other than people get over themselves.

    It could also be the reason why we have segregated schools. :rolleyes:

    Everyone should have the right to go around and not be perved on by those predatory gay men, eyeing up every innocent straight guy they see.

    Won't somebody please think of the childern etc etc. :rolleyes:


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    #9
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    It just demonstrates the way that we cant neatly divide everyone up into two separate boxes. We can make a general divide to make things easier sometimes but this is just a reminder that generalities don't fit everyone.
    Sexuality seems to be more of a continuum than simply a neat division into homosexual and heterosexual and it seems masculinity and femininity are like that too.
    It would stand to reason therefore that it is not only the out gay guy that would have the possibility within himself to appreciate other males and the same for women.
    The important thing is that people behave appropriately.


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    #10
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    brownej wrote: »
    It could also be the reason why we have segregated schools. :rolleyes:
    Yes thats exactly the same, very good.

    The point is we already segregate in order to accommodate people sensibilities, but that does not imply that all women hate men or visa-versa.

    Equally If someone is uncomfortable with a gay person potentially 'eyeing' them up it doesn't mean they're automatically homophobic, it's most likely they're insecure about their body image etc.

    But as Ambersky states if people behave appropriately it shouldn't matter who's in whichever changing room.

    Hell in more enlightened countries there aren't always segregated changing rooms and they seem to be doing ok.


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    #11
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    I think brownej was being ironic there Rev Hellfire
    It could also be the reason why we have segregated schools.:rolleyes:
    or am I reading it wrong and you are the one being ironic? Hmmmm.
    Yes thats exactly the same, very good.


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    #12
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    It's homophobia, pure and simple.


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    #13
    focusvsastrata
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭focusvsastrata


    I can under stand why some people might feel uncomfortable to be honest. I think it is because there are two changing rooms to begin with. There are usually men's and women. Why do people think there are two changing room? It is because women should be able to change there without men perving on them and making them feel uncomfortable and the same goes for women watching men. So some straight men would be of the opinion that gay men would be watching them getting changed. This is not my opinion but I think some people would feel like this.


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    #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    focusvsastrata wrote: »
    I can under stand why some people might feel uncomfortable to be honest. I think it is because there are two changing rooms to begin with. There are usually men's and women. Why do people think there are two changing room? It is because women should be able to change there without men perving on them and making them feel uncomfortable and the same goes for women watching men. So some straight men would be of the opinion that gay men would be watching them getting changed. This is not my opinion but I think some people would feel like this.
    do all straight men perve on women?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15
    The Cheesepoo
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭The Cheesepoo


    Why have changing rooms which separate men and women at all?
    Actually scratch that we need more changing rooms for every difference imaginable. I want to be able to get changed in a room where only straight men, who are atheists, 5 foot 11, dark haired, slightly overweight AND who are called Bryan can get changed in. I'm petrified of having gay, Jehovas witness women, who are 6 foot 3, blond haired, thin and called Debbie possibly perving on me!


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    #16
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    I love this assumption some straight men make who clearly haven't a clue about gay men and who don't realise we handle the situation so much more differently to how straight men would in a similar situation, like a women's changing room.

    When I'm in to change or shower I'm just in to do my thing and get out as quick as possible. I'm on autopilot because it's not even a remotely sexual scenario, and the mere sight of a lad's soft cock isn't going to get me popping a horn.

    I'm so used to changing for years for training since I was young that I don't even think about sex because the situation has been so normalised and mundane that I'm just in to carry out my business and feck off as quick as possible and not hang around peeving as some might like to believe.

    If you threw a straight guy into a changing room he'd most likely immediately start thinking about sex as that would be a new and sexual situation for him because he wouldn't be used to it as we would.

    Just because a heap of straight lads couldn't control themselves in a women's changing rooms because they're not used to it doesn't mean we can't either by virtue that we are attracted to the same sex. The same rules don't apply. We're so normalised and used to the situation that it's not sexual, it's only routine to get in, wash up/change and get out.

    Hardly think anyone here would get hard taking a piss with a load of other lads at a crowded urinal? Why would that suddenly change in a changing room then?


    Anyway that's getting off track, if anybody shared those views if I was in the gym changing rooms I'd tell him to fuck off if he was that uncomfortable, because I wouldn't be going anywhere to suit some eejit's crippling insecurity.

    You have the right of way, OP. If he doesn't like it and it bothers him so much then he's the one that should leave. Simple as.


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    #17
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    1ZRed wrote: »
    I love this assumption some straight men make who clearly haven't a clue about gay men and who don't realise we handle the situation so much more differently to how straight men would in a similar situation, like a women's changing room.

    When I'm in to change or shower I'm just in to do my thing and get out as quick as possible. I'm on autopilot because it's not even a remotely sexual scenario, and the mere sight of a lad's soft cock isn't going to get me popping a horn.

    I'm so used to changing for years for training since I was young that I don't even think about sex because the situation has been so normalised and mundane that I'm just in to carry out my business and feck off as quick as possible and not hang around peeving as some might like to believe.

    If you threw a straight guy into a changing room he'd most likely immediately start thinking about sex as that would be a new and sexual situation for him because he wouldn't be used to it as we would.

    Just because a heap of straight lads couldn't control themselves in a women's changing rooms because they're not used to it doesn't mean we can't either by virtue that we are attracted to the same sex. The same rules don't apply. We're so normalised and used to the situation that it's not sexual, it's only routine to get in, wash up/change and get out.

    Hardly think anyone here would get hard taking a piss with a load of other lads at a crowded urinal? Why would that suddenly change in a changing room then?


    Anyway that's getting off track, if anybody shared those views if I was in the gym changing rooms I'd tell him to fuck off if he was that uncomfortable, because I wouldn't be going anywhere to suit some eejit's crippling insecurity.

    You have the right of way, OP. If he doesn't like it and it bothers him so much then he's the one that should leave. Simple as.


    What's equally as irritating is ugly straight guys afraid to a gay bar because they think we'll jump them. Whatever about the good looking straight guys (who we wouldn't actually jump - we ain't rapists (except that minority of gays who are actual rapists)), why do the ugly ones who never get laid by women think we are going to want them?

    I was out for pride and a friend if my bf brought her straight friend along to Panti. She had to leave because he was uncomfortable.

    All my bf and I could think was "really?" That guy was safe as houses!


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    #18
    brownej
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    I was thinking about this thread in the changing room in the gym last night and when I looked up there was definitely a guy checking me out. At least I'm pretty sure he was checking me out casue when he saw that I saw him, he looked away, then I looked away and when I looked back he was checking me out again. Of course he could have just been staring into space as he had been at the same TRX class as me and it was pretty tireing.
    I'm pretty sure he's straight though. To be honest I was pretty flattered to be checked out.


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    #19
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    1ZRed wrote: »
    I love this assumption some straight men make who clearly haven't a clue about gay men and who don't realise we handle the situation so much more differently to how straight men would in a similar situation, like a women's changing room.

    When I'm in to change or shower I'm just in to do my thing and get out as quick as possible. I'm on autopilot because it's not even a remotely sexual scenario, and the mere sight of a lad's soft cock isn't going to get me popping a horn.

    I'm so used to changing for years for training since I was young that I don't even think about sex because the situation has been so normalised and mundane that I'm just in to carry out my business and feck off as quick as possible and not hang around peeving as some might like to believe.

    If you threw a straight guy into a changing room he'd most likely immediately start thinking about sex as that would be a new and sexual situation for him because he wouldn't be used to it as we would.

    Just because a heap of straight lads couldn't control themselves in a women's changing rooms because they're not used to it doesn't mean we can't either by virtue that we are attracted to the same sex. The same rules don't apply. We're so normalised and used to the situation that it's not sexual, it's only routine to get in, wash up/change and get out.

    Hardly think anyone here would get hard taking a piss with a load of other lads at a crowded urinal? Why would that suddenly change in a changing room then?


    Anyway that's getting off track, if anybody shared those views if I was in the gym changing rooms I'd tell him to fuck off if he was that uncomfortable, because I wouldn't be going anywhere to suit some eejit's crippling insecurity.

    You have the right of way, OP. If he doesn't like it and it bothers him so much then he's the one that should leave. Simple as.



    You are totally right 1ZRed. I go swimming every week and in that pool there are open showers in the changing rooms. I never have a problem showering with the other men in there. And everyone goes naked there. As you say its not exactly a sexual place!

    I suppose some people might say we are lucky because we can see lads naked, but I think we need to get away from Naked Body = Sex.

    I have been in a sauna/wellness centre in Germany and everyone both male and female went naked, young old, good looking and not so.


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    #20
    JenEffy
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭JenEffy


    I don't understand why straight guys think gay guys will automatically fancy them. I'm a bisexual girl who has mostly guy friends and I don't fancy every one of them, nor do i fancy every girl I see. Not everything is about sex. And so what if a gay guy is attracted to said straight guy? He's probably not a rapist.


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    #21
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i'd be more upset if they wern't looking
    i mean i'm getting older but i work out, mabey i could cut down on the beers, run a few more miles a week.....


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    #22
    face1990
    Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭face1990


    OP, what does he want done about that? Does he want separate changing areas for gay men? Or ban gay people from the tennis club?

    Sounds like a bit of an eejit tbh. Make a complaint about him if he's making you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to suffer fools.


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    #23
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    floggg wrote: »
    What's equally as irritating is ugly straight guys afraid to a gay bar because they think we'll jump them. Whatever about the good looking straight guys (who we wouldn't actually jump - we ain't rapists (except that minority of gays who are actual rapists)), why do the ugly ones who never get laid by women think we are going to want them?

    I was out for pride and a friend if my bf brought her straight friend along to Panti. She had to leave because he was uncomfortable.

    All my bf and I could think was "really?" That guy was safe as houses!
    Insecurity. Everything thick and irrational like this is explained by insecurity.

    That, and they have to believe that if the women don't want them at least the gays will always be there to jump them whenever their back is turned. Otherwise sure wtf are they even living for if nobody wants them? :pac:
    bikeman1 wrote: »
    You are totally right 1ZRed. I go swimming every week and in that pool there are open showers in the changing rooms. I never have a problem showering with the other men in there. And everyone goes naked there. As you say its not exactly a sexual place!

    I suppose some people might say we are lucky because we can see lads naked, but I think we need to get away from Naked Body = Sex.

    I have been in a sauna/wellness centre in Germany and everyone both male and female went naked, young old, good looking and not so.
    Exactly. In countries like that where being naked is so commonplace, nobody associates a naked body with sex so instantaneously like they would here because it's not such a big deal. I think it's our repressed catholic guilt that hasn't quite shifted yet that's holding us back and creating such stupid problems like this that a few straight lads are scared shitless some gay lad might see their dick.


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    #24
    mackD
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mackD


    Why do communal changing/shower rooms even exist?
    Surely it can't be that expensive to have individual shower/changing cubicles.


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    #25
    azezil
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    Ambersky wrote: »
    azezil it seems, quickly identify s with those who want no gay men in the mens changing room and goes even further, he tells us he imagines a situation with guys perving on him in the shower and imagines the objectors would not like that either. He asks

    Id say the answer is yes and I know you probably dont like this word but its called internalised homophobia

    Ok, my use of the word "perving" was a bit OTT, but it's not internalised homophobia with me it's more a self confidence thing, I don't feel comfortable with anyone looking at me naked.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Cheesepoo wrote: »
    Why have changing rooms which separate men and women at all?

    Lots of places in the EU do not as it happens. They have in many swimming pools for example a series of individual cubicles for those who want privacy, and a few open plan rooms beside that for just whoever.

    So in them you find yourself changing in front of everyone regardless of age - sex - race - creed - or whatever.

    Part of me wonders if the straight men with issues about changing with gay men are worried that the gay men will evaluate them as sexually attractive - or are they more worried they will not?

    As 1ZRed says though - I think they should be less worried about the presence of gay men - and more concerned with why they are sexualising the changing room process at all in their own heads.


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    #27
    dublinsoon
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭dublinsoon


    I'm new to Ireland, but very surprised that in the gyms / pools I've tried, men aren't naked in front of each other when getting changed or showering.

    Whatever about not being naked in mixed-gender situations, which I think is a very Anglophone thing, the fear of nudity in single-gender situations seems uniquely Irish (from my limited experience; perhaps it's just the gyms/pools I've used, most of which were in hotels as I was working between here and the UK before moving over).

    I was beginning to wonder was it a homophobia thing? Are the other men thinking that they better cover up in the sauna because there might be a gay man in there who would see them naked? OP's experience makes me suspect that homophobia can't be entirely disconnected from the reluctance of Irish men to be seen naked by other men.

    I'm still looking for a gym/pool to join where I can enjoy a post-workout sauna as nature intended (which doesn't include wearing togs, which feel quite uncomfortable in the heat, but definitely involves sitting on a towel so the next person doesn't sit on a pool of your sweat!!) Does anyone have any suggestions? (Feel free to pm.)


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    #28
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    dublinsoon wrote: »
    I'm new to Ireland, but very surprised that in the gyms / pools I've tried, men aren't naked in front of each other when getting changed or showering.

    ....

    I'm still looking for a gym/pool to join where I can enjoy a post-workout sauna as nature intended (which doesn't include wearing togs, which feel quite uncomfortable in the heat, but definitely involves sitting on a towel so the next person doesn't sit on a pool of your sweat!!) Does anyone have any suggestions? (Feel free to pm.)

    I would be seriously surprised if you found one. Especially since most/ all saunas will be mixed gender in Ireland and that would then count as public nudity, I think...


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    #29
    dublinsoon
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭dublinsoon


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    I would be seriously surprised if you found one. Especially since most/ all saunas will be mixed gender in Ireland

    I think you're probably right that it will be surprising to find one.

    I was hoping to find one with a single-sex sauna off the men's changing room; totally understand why there is no nudity in mixed-gender saunas.


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    #30
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    dublinsoon wrote: »
    I'm new to Ireland, but very surprised that in the gyms / pools I've tried, men aren't naked in front of each other when getting changed or showering.

    Whatever about not being naked in mixed-gender situations, which I think is a very Anglophone thing, the fear of nudity in single-gender situations seems uniquely Irish (from my limited experience; perhaps it's just the gyms/pools I've used, most of which were in hotels as I was working between here and the UK before moving over).

    I was beginning to wonder was it a homophobia thing? Are the other men thinking that they better cover up in the sauna because there might be a gay man in there who would see them naked? OP's experience makes me suspect that homophobia can't be entirely disconnected from the reluctance of Irish men to be seen naked by other men.

    I'm still looking for a gym/pool to join where I can enjoy a post-workout sauna as nature intended (which doesn't include wearing togs, which feel quite uncomfortable in the heat, but definitely involves sitting on a towel so the next person doesn't sit on a pool of your sweat!!) Does anyone have any suggestions? (Feel free to pm.)

    There aren't many with single gender saunas.

    As for gym changing rooms, any I've ever been the guys were very much nude.

    Heck, I had a grand chat with the owner of my gym the other day while both of us in the buff.

    I've also seen a former TV lecture somebody about renewable energy while standing in from of him starkers.

    Which at his age, wasnt a good look.


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    #31
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    floggg wrote: »

    I've also seen a former TV lecture somebody about renewable energy while standing in from of him starkers.

    Which at his age, wasnt a good look.

    Fair fecks to him though. It's not all about only the good looking people getting naked. Everyone should have the confidence to do it!


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