Zimbabwe man sells fake product, gets arrested. UK NHS do the same, nothing happens.

Gotham · 26-07-2013 02:10PM #1

If you haven't heard on the radio, here is what happened recently:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23419525

tl;dr:

Up until 2009 [his company] marketed products as alternative forms of treatment for the HIV infection.
They claimed to be able to kill, prevent or stop Aids, according to the prosecution.

So why can both the NHS and Boots sell products/services relating to homeopathy and alternative medicine?
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/wider-healthcare-team/careers-in-the-wider-healthcare-team/clinical-support-staff/complementary-and-alternative-medicine-(cam)/

http://www.boots.com/en/Pharmacy-Health/Health-shop/Alternative-therapy/

Why does this double standard exist?

uch · 26-07-2013 02:16PM

Because there wasn't enough Cake

ArmaniJeanss · 26-07-2013 02:18PM

He could apply for a license and go through the boring paperwork & procedures that Boots did.

Christ the Redeemer · 26-07-2013 02:19PM

Crazy that the NHS covers homoeopathy and such.

hardCopy · 26-07-2013 02:20PM

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

Crazy that the NHS covers homoeopathy and such.

'Tis PC bullsh1t

Christ the Redeemer · 26-07-2013 02:22PM

hardCopy wrote: »

'Tis PC bullsh1t

What's PC about selling bull**** fake medicine?

Spunge · 26-07-2013 02:25PM

Its health and safety gone mad

mike65 · 26-07-2013 02:31PM

Its time for this sketch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Dravokivich · 26-07-2013 02:35PM

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

What's PC about selling bull**** fake medicine?

It hurts other peoples feelings when "Alternative Medicines" don't get recognition.

It's funny as heck whenever that bogus crap comes up in the health and fitness forum.

kylith · 26-07-2013 02:35PM

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

Crazy that the NHS covers homoeopathy and such.

I've heard that there's strife over there at the mo because Prince Charles is lobbying for more homeopathy to be covered, or for the NHS not to cut it or something. Someone really needs to tell him that being born into a royal family doesn't mean he knows the first thing about medicine. "Tell you what Charlie, I won't tell you how to wave, you don't tell me how to treat sick people. Deal?"

hardCopy · 26-07-2013 02:44PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

It hurts other peoples feelings when "Alternative Medicines" don't get recognition.

It's funny as heck whenever that bogus crap comes up in the health and fitness forum.

Exactly, the UK government are too polite to tell the homeopathy loo-las to piss off.

My name is URL · 26-07-2013 02:47PM

kylith wrote: »

I've heard that there's strife over there at the mo because Prince Charles is lobbying for more homeopathy to be covered, or for the NHS not to cut it or something. Someone really needs to tell him that being born into a royal family doesn't mean he knows the first thing about medicine. "Tell you what Charlie, I won't tell you how to wave, you don't tell me how to treat sick people. Deal?"

It's worse than him just lobbying in favour of homoeopathy, his charity, 'Foundation for Integrated Medicine' actually persuaded the NHS to suppress information stating that homoeopathy has no scientific evidence to suggest it works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/13/prince-charity-lobbied-government-homeopathy

The fcuker should be criminally investigated

weisses · 26-07-2013 02:55PM

I think all of you should cut down on the fluoride :rolleyes:

kylith · 26-07-2013 02:55PM

My name is URL wrote: »

It's worse than him just lobbying in favour of homoeopathy, his charity, 'Foundation for Integrated Medicine' actually persuaded the NHS to suppress information stating that homoeopathy has no scientific evidence to suggest it works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/13/prince-charity-lobbied-government-homeopathy

The fcuker should be criminally investigated

Is there some kind of charge for using ones influence to the detriment of others or something? Personally I'd refuse to treat him with anything other than homeopathic 'medicine'; see how quick he sings a different tune then.

Gotham · 26-07-2013 02:58PM

weisses wrote: »

I think all of you should cut down on the fluoride :rolleyes:

Cut down? But our dose would then be higher!

26-07-2013 03:00PM

It is grossly irresponsible to claim to stop AIDS when you are peddling ****. Where does the NHS do alternative medicine?

Edit: I apologise OP, I didn't know that the NHS had homeopathic clinics. Speaking as a pharmacist who works for the NHS. None of the pharmacy team would have time for homeopathy. NHS may using these services for placebo effect.

My name is URL · 26-07-2013 03:07PM

kylith wrote: »

Is there some kind of charge for using ones influence to the detriment of others or something? Personally I'd refuse to treat him with anything other than homeopathic 'medicine'; see how quick he sings a different tune then.

Afaik there has to be transparency in how royals lobby governments and agencies, and there was very little of that with how he was going about it. The 'charity' in question was closed down a few years ago due to allegations of fraud and corruption.

It's also worth noting that Charles' firm 'Duchy Originals' actually sells a lot of quack medicines, so it's not as if he's simply lobbying because it's something he believes in.. he stood to gain financially also.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1095682/Prince-Charles-Duchy-Originals-food-firm-launches-herbal-remedy-range.html

Fratton Fred · 26-07-2013 03:27PM

I have psoriasis and I have tried every possible remedy for it.

Apart from two weeks in the sun, the only thing that got anywhere near helping was a homeopathic remedy.

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

My name is URL · 26-07-2013 03:34PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

It doesn't matter how long they've been practising it, no scientific evidence exists to show that it works. Not surprising that a homoeopath would use an appeal to tradition in order to defend his views.

BQQ · 26-07-2013 03:39PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have psoriasis and I have tried every possible remedy for it.

Apart from two weeks in the sun, the only thing that got anywhere near helping was a homeopathic remedy.

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

And if we continued to live in caves, would you consider that better or even equal to our trendy modern houses. :rolleyes:

blatantrereg · 26-07-2013 03:40PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have psoriasis and I have tried every possible remedy for it.

Apart from two weeks in the sun, the only thing that got anywhere near helping was a homeopathic remedy.

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

What was the remedy?

Homeopathy involves treatment with water. It either has miniscule amounts of some [sometimes toxic] herb in it, or it contains the "essence" of that herb. By essence, they mean that it was put in a container that once had a little of the herb in it, but doesn't any more. Even aside from all the scientific studies demonstrating this is quackery, it's just not plausible.

What is more plausible is the idea that you were treated with something that does work - but isn't actually homeopathic.

Sierra 117 · 26-07-2013 03:46PM

As the saying goes, if alternative medicine worked then it would be simply called medicine.

Anita Blow · 26-07-2013 04:14PM

Both the NHS and HSE offer Homeopathic "treatments" to some patients.
That is, for patients who would benefit from a placebo effect but don't necessarily need to go on a course of tablets/antibiotics, a doctor may prescribe homeopathic products.

There's nothing wrong with that. If a person comes in with anxiety, a lot of the time all a patient needs is something like Rescue Remedy so they can feel like they've been prescribed something and so the placebo effect improves their symptoms, rather than jumping straight to prescribing Xanax for them or other conventional medications which may carry risk of side effects.

Nowhere on that page is the NHS claiming Homepathic medicine can treat HIV?

Fratton Fred · 26-07-2013 04:31PM

blatantrereg wrote: »

What was the remedy?

Homeopathy involves treatment with water. It either has miniscule amounts of some [sometimes toxic] herb in it, or it contains the "essence" of that herb. By essence, they mean that it was put in a container that once had a little of the herb in it, but doesn't any more. Even aside from all the scientific studies demonstrating this is quackery, it's just not plausible.

What is more plausible is the idea that you were treated with something that does work - but isn't actually homeopathic.

There was no water involved, just some tablets and lots of very expensive consultations.

Interesting philosophy, creams, potions etc treat the psoriasis, but the psoriasis is a symptom, therefore treating the symptom is just masking the main issue.

I wouldn't trust a homeopath with a serious illness, but as I said, it had good (but not good enough) results for me.

Duggy747 · 26-07-2013 04:58PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

China has a very dodgy history in terms of "alternative medicine" what with a black market rife with bits of animals sold off and whatnot in the name of ancient alternative medicine. Remember that story a year or two ago of a haul of pills containing human fetuses?

He can laugh but "western medicine", as it is put, has done more in 300 years than thousands of years of "alternative medicine" by cures against strains, diseases, most forms of cancers (caught early, of course), surgeries, physiotherapy, etc, and ultimately gave us humans almost double our life expectancy compared to as recent as a century ago.

There's this image peddled by "natural and alternative" wholesalers or celeb "doctors" that there's a fine line between western medicine and eastern medicine. That western medicine, for it's faults, somehow automatically gives alternative medicine a basis to work and any criticism from a scientific or trial test result is seen as nonsense.

What works is just known as medicine, doesn't matter where it's origins are from.

knipex · 26-07-2013 05:17PM

I wouldn't credit modern medicine with the entire increase in life expectancy. Hygiene (something western medicine ignored until relatively recently) and availability of food had a much bigger impact.

Not all Chinese or eastern medicine is quackery and indeed there are peer reviewed studies in western journals that have supported some aspects of it.

I believe that homoeopathy is quackery but I would rather see that prescribed as a placebo than an antibiotic which a recent study showed a frightening amount of NHS doctors are doing.

Fox_In_Socks · 26-07-2013 05:27PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

I didn't know Chinese medicine invented antibiotics, vaccines, eliminated smallpox from the human population etc.

Cool!

ScumLord · 26-07-2013 05:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It is grossly irresponsible to claim to stop AIDS when you are peddling ****.

I don't think anyone has tested that **** works yet. I think we're pretty confident that water doesn't work though.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

I could practice soccer for 2 years without a football and I still wouldn't be as good as the guy that practices for 1 month with the ball.

People were looking at the starry night sky for tens of thousands of years and all their theories about it were wrong until we got the right tools to study the stars properly.

Sofaspud · 26-07-2013 06:07PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I even had a consultation with a Chinese medicine guy and mentioned that I had tried other "alternative" remedies. He laughed and said that in China they had been practicing medicine for three thousand years, in Europe we have been doing it for three hundred. Which one is the trendy modern alternative?

And where do you think he'd go if he needed his tonsils or appendix out, or got cancer? Older isn't necessarily better. And even if it were, Homeopathy was invented in 1796, which is under 300 years ago. Yay, actual medicine wins the "which is older" contest.

Interesting philosophy, creams, potions etc treat the psoriasis, but the psoriasis is a symptom, therefore treating the symptom is just masking the main issue.

Whereas homeopathic treatments consist of heavily* watered down substances that had been found to cause similar symptoms. That's no more focused on "the main issue" than conventional medicine.

*"Heavily" to the point where none of the original substance appears in the water.

26-07-2013 06:27PM

Would anyone happen to know if all the Chinese Medicine shops are regulated in any way?

26-07-2013 10:29PM

As long as herbal remedies don't proclaim on the packaging that they can cure x,y and z. They can be sold without MHRA looking at them.

Zimbabwe man sells fake product, gets arrested. UK NHS do the same, nothing happens.

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