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If you were a pro rider during the EPO era, what would you have done?

  • 24-07-2013 09:00PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭


    I've been wondering what choices I would have made if I'd been a pro rider during the EPO era. Faced with the option of doping or not being able to survive never mind competing for wins what would have I decided? Between earning a living and going home with my tail between my legs?
    While I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have been a "first mover", if I'm honest I suspect I would have taken the "EPO option" just to keep up! Given that, as appears to have been the case, "everybody" else was doing it it would probably have been easy enough to justify.
    Am I alone in believing this?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    It's too easy to vilify the riders. In reality the vast majority are going to take it and I'd be no different myself. For most it was the only livelihood they knew.

    The main problem was with the teams, medical staff, and especially the UCI who almost sanctioned the use of EPO with their 50% rule.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Pawlie


    If I where in a team that had no doping well then id be clean,but if I was in a team similar to the US Postal team I prop be full to the gills of everything :-)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭Ole Rodrigo


    Same as Pawlie. I always thought doping was a problem of organisation (UCI ) and PR. It was never really a moral problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 619 ✭✭✭vistafinder


    Its a very easy trap to fall into.Imagine if you were a young 17 or 18 year old talented rider and you were killing yourself daily to make it.You join a team that some of your heroes may have been on or another rider tells you storys about whats going on.Managers and doctors giveing you advice,
    It would take a very strong person not to do it.
    Its a different world where lots of money is involved.
    But after a while surely your conscience would be at you if you were any way decent.

    Its the reluctance to tell the truth thats pis-ing off.They say the cream rises to the top but its the bullys and the selfish and greedy and the people with no conscience that nearly always make it because they dont care about other people. Its the same with everything else in this world.

    I said it before I think we are looking in the wrong places for our heroes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭luapenak


    Taken it until they developed a test for it, after that not so sure


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭on_the_nickel


    I'd have scorched up Temple Hill dressed like this
    CIPOLLINI2.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON





    There have been numerous well documented behavioural studies conducted into obedience and groupthink.
    Daniel Kanehman has written a out live experiments were a group of people were told a story that in another room was a bad man, say a criminal of some description. They were told to administer a mild shock via a dial going from 1 to 10.

    They were given more and more bad info and given the choice whether to administer a shock. As the shocks got bigger, the screams of agony from the other room got louder and more desperate.

    It takes an extraordinary character to "choose" to go against the grain, to not do what is expected.

    For the top amateurs it is plausibly psychologically more difficult. Why - it is their professionalism and attitude that has helped to get them so far.
    They are used to sacrifice.

    If I was ever that good, why should I think that I have the type of extraordinary psychological make up that would enable me to say no, when everyone around me said maybe or yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭Russman


    Christophe Bassons looks like an even bigger hero now IMO,
    Imagine the sh1t he must have seen/listened to back in the day, not many would honestly have been able to refuse, in my humble opinion. Hindsight is great, but it was basically just the way things were (some say still are) in cycling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,828 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Lets be honest, you're a young rider who's worked his ass of to get a pro contract, and the next thing you know is you're being told by doctors and director sportifs that the only way you're going to be able to compete is by using EPOs. The choice between being famous and earning a mint, or staying clean and your opponents have the upper hand.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    stetyrrell wrote: »
    Lets be honest...

    Interesting choice of phrase.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭ozzy jr


    Didn't it thicken the blood to the extent that some cyclists set alarms to wake up during the night to do a work out to thin the blood and keep them alive?

    If I'd know of this side effect, I wouldn't have taken it.

    If I was in US Postal, I probably wouldn't of had much choice, although I'm sure Tyler Hamilton said there was one rider in the team who was clean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    I wouldn't have done it. Anyone who takes drugs in sport is morally bankrupt imo as they are cheating other clean athletes of their livelihoods. Easier said than done but I'd definitely rather earn an honest living than potentially disgrace myself just because 'everyone else is doing it'. Hollow victories in the pursuit of a cheated living not to mention potentially ruining your body and possibly dying, no thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    Part of the problem is how much people have already invested in the sport before the choice is presented to them. Another part of the problem is the youth of those facing the decision - I did terrible things to myself in my teens and twenties and there wasn't even money and fame at stake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Well, we all know now that you could simply refuse to get involved in supercharging your blood and instead make a series of very small changes to the food you ate, the bed you rested on, the shape of your chainring, and get a fancy speedometer and you would be keeping up with the super-mutants no problem. I'm not missing anything here, right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    From reading David Millar's autobiography, I suspect most people would end up juiced.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Yes. No point in denying it. In fact I'm tempted to try it now out or sheer curiosity.*

    It must have been incredibly hard to resist the pressure to dope.

    *joke.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭allan450


    i would no prob.you dont no who is no what these days even in amature sports.when i was in recruit training for the army not the irish army different one altogether i was introduced to all sorts.first was D-norpseudo ephedrine HCI 20.tried that before a run one day.it was serious cardio enhancer last for hours though.then i tried clenbuterol much the same as above but not as strong.calves kept getting muscle spasms and you run hot on it great for weight loss and keeps hunger at bay.then anavar was tried with all the above this helps in lean muscle mass and fatloss with little or know side affects.i mention the above becus they are prob used still today by cycling teams as they have a sort half life and are out of your system in a few hours.i could go in to in greater detail but thats what google is for.their all tablet form well the D-norpseudo ephedrine is drops.i could go into the injectable forms but id be here all day.i use the above at the start of the football session to get the edge.as one wise man said[if your not cheating your not trying]ha ha


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭bazermc


    With all this talk of who took EPO etc etc etc, I still dont really understand what it is, other than a performance enhancing drug.

    So question please, what exactly does EPO do to your body and how does it assist in cycling performance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Guybrush T


    bazermc wrote: »
    With all this talk of who took EPO etc etc etc, I still dont really understand what it is other than a performance enhancing drug.

    So question please, what exactly does EPO do to your body and how does it assist in cycling performance?

    Others more learned than wot I am can expand on this, but it increases your red blood cell count so you can get more oxygen from your lungs to your muscles where it's needed for cycling.

    And in answer to the OPs question, I'd have been whizzed off my tiny tits. I see no point in trundling along behind the peloton in a smug little cloud of moral superiority.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    Interesting article on this in the Economist - http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2013/07/doping-sport


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    I probably wouldn't have doped and just come home and stomped all over the amateur scene.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 448 ✭✭spoke2cun


    I would take it now if I got my hands on it just for our 2 hour training rides!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭-K2-


    I'd have bought it myself without talking to anyone. Then taken it once, just the once, in my hotel room alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Shakakan


    Yes I would have done it.



    I'm juiced up to my tits right now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭allan450


    epo is not classed as juice but performance enhancer juice is street name for anabolic steriods.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Plenty walked rather than dope to compete. They're the real victims, not those coming out with excuses 15 years down the line to justify their actions.

    As to whether I would of - who knows. You'd have invested your life up to that point for the career. That's why the hero's are those that took the harder option not to take it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭Ole Rodrigo


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Plenty walked rather than dope to compete. They're the real victims, not those coming out with excuses 15 years down the line to justify their actions.

    As to whether I would of - who knows. You'd have invested your life up to that point for the career. That's why the hero's are those that took the harder option not to take it.

    But we don't now why they didn't. We're assuming it was for moral reasons.

    Using labels such as cheat, hero, victim..they all take away from really understanding the problem, and what - if anything - can be done about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭REBELSAFC


    allan450 wrote: »
    i would no prob.you dont no who is no what these days even in amature sports.when i was in recruit training for the army not the irish army different one altogether i was introduced to all sorts.first was D-norpseudo ephedrine HCI 20.tried that before a run one day.it was serious cardio enhancer last for hours though.then i tried clenbuterol much the same as above but not as strong.calves kept getting muscle spasms and you run hot on it great for weight loss and keeps hunger at bay.then anavar was tried with all the above this helps in lean muscle mass and fatloss with little or know side affects.i mention the above becus they are prob used still today by cycling teams as they have a sort half life and are out of your system in a few hours.i could go in to in greater detail but thats what google is for.their all tablet form well the D-norpseudo ephedrine is drops.i could go into the injectable forms but id be here all day.i use the above at the start of the football session to get the edge.as one wise man said[if your not cheating your not trying]ha ha

    All that ****e must have affected your grammar and punctuation


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Slo_Rida


    To all those who said they WOULD have doped with EPO. I think you are wrong. I think that regular-minded people would realise that the risk of death just to go faster on a push-bike is ludicrous. And it is.

    This is th eoriginal no-brainer. I'd love to see IQ tests on people who took that risk. There's the moral issue too which I'd like to think would also have desuaded me from doping but, definitely the dying thing would have put me off.


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