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Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

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  • #362
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Cavani went for 55M and Suarez regularly out performs him when they play in the same side together for Uruguay. Plus Suarez is a much better player now than Torres was when Liverpool sold him to Chelsea. He's on a 3 year contract. They don't want to sell him. I think it'll certainly take 50M from an English club to get him. A direct competitor. They may actually sell to Madrid for a little less.

    Cavani doesn't bite people though


  • #363
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    If Arsenal acquire Suarez then we better get another player as his back up, as good as he is he is so volatile and unpredictable that if he is banned or whatever then what. I am not sure he is worth the trouble tbh. Joey Barton should have been a great player but so volatile and what a team gains then loses just as quickly. Anyway its only conjecture at the minute.


  • #364
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,032 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    AdamD wrote: »
    Cavani doesn't bite people though

    Take off 5M then on the off chance he does that again. It's still 50M.


  • #365
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,537 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    If Arsenal acquire Suarez then we better get another player as his back up, as good as he is he is so volatile and unpredictable that if he is banned or whatever then what. I am not sure he is worth the trouble tbh. Joey Barton should have been a great player but so volatile and what a team gains then loses just as quickly. Anyway its only conjecture at the minute.

    Giroud, Podolski and Walcott are plenty of back up if we did land him. If we got Suarez & Bernard then all we need is a back up CB (and a DM if i'm being greedy).


  • #366
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Apparently Liverpool think the clause means they just have to inform Suarez of the bid, whereas his agent thinks its a release clause. A couple of people on twitter, including John Cross have said this.

    Also hes played 31 and 33 league games in the last 2 seasons respectively. Not that bad tbh, doesn't seem to get injured, just banned.


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  • #367
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    bad2dabone wrote: »
    So you're valuing Suarez at 65 million? Are you the one who valued Andy Carroll for Liverpool?


    No I am not valuing Suarez at 65m because Walcott sure as hell is not a 25m pound player, not yet anyway.

    But if Arsenal wanted Suarez, then I would want them to lose a decent player along with a big wedge of cash. Basically what I am saying is that if a team in the same league wants Suarez then, as a Liverpool supporter, I would expect Liverpool to try and make that team pay through the nose. At that point the ball would be in the court of the wannabe buyer.

    £40m on it's own would not satisfy me if the buying team is an English one.


  • #368
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Do these people not keep files?


  • #369
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Hadn't realised international footie was the barometer for judging players - we should bid 25m for Messi so.

    Leaving aside disciplinary and PR issues aside, Cavani is a far more proven player than Suarez. Don't imagine many outside of Liverpool would disagree.


  • #370
    L'prof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,051 ✭✭✭✭L'prof


    Still can't see it. £40m+ for a player who seems to want out of the country? It'll be Madrid after they sell Higuain to Napoli. So who's left? There are still a few options of course, but with Wenger's comments on how important Giroud is going to be next season, I'm not convinced we'll bring in a high profile striker at all.


  • #371
    gnfnrhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    AdamD wrote: »
    Apparently Liverpool think the clause means they just have to inform Suarez of the bid, whereas his agent thinks its a release clause. A couple of people on twitter, including John Cross have said this.

    Also hes played 31 and 33 league games in the last 2 seasons respectively. Not that bad tbh, doesn't seem to get injured, just banned.

    I have never heard of an "inform the player" clause before now. I doubt such a thing even exists as it makes so little sense. Especially when Liverpool announce to the world that we made a bid in the first place.


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  • #372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kess73 wrote: »
    No I am not valuing Suarez at 65m because Walcott sure as hell is not a 25m pound player, not yet anyway.

    But if Arsenal wanted Suarez, then I would want them to lose a decent player along with a big wedge of cash. Basically what I am saying is that if a team in the same league wants Suarez then, as a Liverpool supporter, I would expect Liverpool to try and make that team pay through the nose. At that point the ball would be in the court of the wannabe buyer.

    £40m on it's own would not satisfy me if the buying team is an English one.

    Ashley Young 17m
    Stewart Downing 20m
    James Milner 25m
    Adam Jonhson 10m

    Gotta say hes worth at least 20m tbh, look at the prices of English wingers.

    He got 14 goals and 10 assists in the league last year, 21 goals in all comps. That's up there with the best wingers


  • #373
    bad2dabone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    Walcott, 4yrs left on his deal, good profile, very marketable, rocket quick (even if sometimes he can be very poor) off the back of his best season would fetch 20 to 25mil in the current market I reckon. We've got similar fees for adebayor and nasri.


  • #374
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    Hadn't realised international footie was the barometer for judging players - we should bid 25m for Messi so.

    Leaving aside disciplinary and PR issues aside, Cavani is a far more proven player than Suarez. Don't imagine many outside of Liverpool would disagree.


    How exactly?

    Suarez has proven his footballing ability in two European leagues, has a better goals and assists per game ratio over his career to date than Cavani has at club level, and has a far superior goals/assists per game ratio at International level.

    If you break it down into bulk figures for career goals, career games, and career assists, then Suarez beats Cavani on all three again.

    So would love to know what makes Cavani the far more proven player.


  • #375
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    gnfnrhead wrote: »
    I have never heard of an "inform the player" clause before now. I doubt such a thing even exists as it makes so little sense. Especially when Liverpool announce to the world that we made a bid in the first place.

    Why would a player want such a clause. Sure as hell his agent would be telling him that a club had bid such an amount anyway? There has to be more to it than that.


  • #376
    gnfnrhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    greendom wrote: »
    Why would a player want such a clause. Sure as hell his agent would be telling him that a club had bid such an amount anyway? There has to be more to it than that.

    I think it's somewhere in the middle. £40m will let us talk to Suarez but we still need to agree a fee with Liverpool or something.


  • #377
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kess73 wrote: »
    How exactly?

    Suarez has proven his footballing ability in two European leagues, has a better goals and assists per game ratio over his career to date than Cavani has at club level, and has a far superior goals/assists per game ratio at International level.

    If you break it down into bulk figures for career goals, career games, and career assists, then Suarez beats Cavani on all three again.

    So would love to know what makes Cavani the far more proven player.

    Cavani has 78 in 104 league games for Napoli. 19 in 25 European games.
    Suarez has 38 in 77 league games for Liverpool. 4 in 8 European games.

    It might look different if you go further back but I don't think anybody really cares how they did in crappy leagues when they were 21. Suarez does have a better record at international level though:
    Cavani 17 in 54
    Suarez 35 in 69


  • #378
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    AdamD wrote: »
    Ashley Young 17m
    Stewart Downing 20m
    James Milner 25m
    Adam Jonhson 10m

    Gotta say hes worth at least 20m tbh, look at the prices of English wingers.

    He got 14 goals and 10 assists in the league last year, 21 goals in all comps. That's up there with the best wingers


    If we are going to use English player prices then here is another one

    Daniel Sturridge - 12m - 11 goals and 5 assists from 16 games.


    I'm not saying Walcott is a poor player, far from it as I really rate him, but my point is that as a Liverpool supporter I would want an English club to pay over the odds in some way to get Suarez.

    I am sure if some English club was after Wilshire in the morning, you guys would want your club to make the buying team pay through the nose rather than lose a top player for a "fair" or market value price.

    Suarez to Arsenal for £40m or Suarez to Real for £40m would each bring a different feeling for me.

    Selling to Real would sting in that we would lose our best player for a big sum. But selling to Arsenal for £40m would be a double whammy in that we would lose our best player and at the same time see a team in the same league get a whole lot stronger at our expense.

    Taking the big sum of cash plus a good player off an English club would soften the blow for me.


  • #379
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kess73 wrote: »
    If we are going to use English player prices then here is another one

    Daniel Sturridge - 12m - 11 goals and 5 assists from 16 games.


    I'm not saying Walcott is a poor player, far from it as I really rate him, but my point is that as a Liverpool supporter I would want an English club to pay over the odds in some way to get Suarez.

    I am sure if some English club was after Wilshire in the morning, you guys would want your club to make the buying team pay through the nose rather than lose a top player for a "fair" or market value price.

    Suarez to Arsenal for £40m or Suarez to Real for £40m would each bring a different feeling for me.

    Selling to Real would sting in that we would lose our best player for a big sum. But selling to Arsenal for £40m would be a double whammy in that we would lose our best player and at the same time see a team in the same league get a whole lot stronger at our expense.

    Taking the big sum of cash plus a good player off an English club would soften the blow for me.
    I get your point but I'd argue that Sturridge hit those numbers after being sold for that fee. He had worse goals and assists figures at Chelsea who weren't pushed on keeping him and he wanting out.


    Its all irrelevant though as the Suarez deal is unlikely in itself, Walcott going would be unthinkable.

    I'm sure Liverpool would rather 50m from Madrid than 40m from Arsenal too. Selling Suarez to Arsenal would make an unlikely 4th place challenge nigh-on impossible.


  • #380
    L'prof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,051 ✭✭✭✭L'prof


    Kess73 wrote: »
    If we are going to use English player prices then here is another one

    Daniel Sturridge - 12m - 11 goals and 5 assists from 16 games.


    I'm not saying Walcott is a poor player, far from it as I really rate him, but my point is that as a Liverpool supporter I would want an English club to pay over the odds in some way to get Suarez.

    I am sure if some English club was after Wilshire in the morning, you guys would want your club to make the buying team pay through the nose rather than lose a top player for a "fair" or market value price.

    Suarez to Arsenal for £40m or Suarez to Real for £40m would each bring a different feeling for me.

    Selling to Real would sting in that we would lose our best player for a big sum. But selling to Arsenal for £40m would be a double whammy in that we would lose our best player and at the same time see a team in the same league get a whole lot stronger at our expense.

    Taking the big sum of cash plus a good player off an English club would soften the blow for me.

    Don't even go there. Future captain. Not leaving. Ever.

    We're not signing Suarez either, so all your hypothetical valuations are just a waste of your time.


  • #381
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    AdamD wrote: »
    Cavani has 78 in 104 league games for Napoli. 19 in 25 European games.
    Suarez has 38 in 77 league games for Liverpool. 4 in 8 European games.

    It might look different if you go further back but I don't think anybody really cares how they did in crappy leagues when they were 21. Suarez does have a better record at international level though:
    Cavani 17 in 54
    Suarez 35 in 69


    Whilst it is not the strongest league, I would hardly call the Dutch league a crappy league, and I would certainly not rate Serie A as being anywhere near as strong a league as the Premiership.

    Cavani has yet to prove that he can excel in more than one European league and has yet to show that he can perform in one of the top three leagues in Europe.


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  • #382
    gnfnrhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Kess73 wrote: »
    If we are going to use English player prices then here is another one

    Daniel Sturridge - 12m - 11 goals and 5 assists from 16 games.

    That was AFTER the move. Before the move he had 13 goals in 63 games for Chelsea. 26 in 96 overall.


  • #383
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,537 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Kess73 wrote: »

    Cavani has yet to prove that he can excel in more than one European league and has yet to show that he can perform in one of the top three leagues in Europe.

    And he won't either because he went to bloody France!


  • #384
    Fuzzy_Dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭Fuzzy_Dunlop


    I don't know if it's just me but the Liverpool fans seem to be getting more irritable so we must be getting somewhere!


  • #385
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    L'prof wrote: »
    Don't even go there. Future captain. Not leaving. Ever.

    We're not signing Suarez either, so all your hypothetical valuations are just a waste of your time.


    Yeah but it is my time to waste, just as pretty much all the Suarez talk from Arsenal supporters on here is their time to waste on hypothetical valuations. There is no harm to it, and as long as we are all civil about it, the worst that can happen is a few disagreements/discussions on different players etc.:)

    As for Wilshire being a future captain who will not leave..... well that is just your hypothetical take on things and I look forward to Wilshire playing for Spurs next year. :D


    Actually I don't, and would hate to see him join Spurs


  • #386
    jonneymendoza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭jonneymendoza


    denied http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23428419


  • #387
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »
    I don't know if it's just me but the Liverpool fans seem to be getting more irritable so we must be getting somewhere!


    Not at all. Just hoping for a bit of discussion with maybe a little friendly banter thrown in. Certainly not looking to rub anyone the wrong way as I don't have any dislike of the club you support or those that follow it (despite having sat in Anfield in 1989 on the day when a certain Michael Thomas scored an injury time goal:mad:)


  • #388
    bad2dabone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    I'm certain Liverpool would rather 35m to real than 40 to arsenal. Makes perfect sense for them not to sell to a rival. Still makes me sick seeing rvp in a man u shirt.
    I still think suarez will end up at Madrid. Soldado to spurs. And us gooners fuming at a missed opportunity to push on.


  • #389
    L'prof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,051 ✭✭✭✭L'prof


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Yeah but it is my time to waste, just as pretty much all the Suarez talk from Arsenal supporters on here is their time to waste on hypothetical valuations. There is no harm to it, and as long as we are all civil about it, the worst that can happen is a few disagreements/discussions on different players etc.:)

    As for Wilshire being a future captain who will not leave..... well that is just your hypothetical take on things and I look forward to Wilshire playing for Spurs next year. :D


    Actually I don't, and would hate to see him join Spurs

    ...I can't hear you...

    I'll never say never again in this day and age, but he's our great hope. I think he'll definitely win trophies at Arsenal. How soon and how often they come will play a big part in his decision at some stage though. 11 years at the club already and counting!


  • #390
    Fuzzy_Dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭Fuzzy_Dunlop


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Not at all. Just hoping for a bit of discussion with maybe a little friendly banter thrown in. Certainly not looking to rub anyone the wrong way as I don't have any dislike of the club you support or those that follow it (despite having sat in Anfield in 1989 on the day when a certain Michael Thomas scored an injury time goal:mad:)

    Sorry I wasn't taking about yourself. Was just reading reddit and the likes and the Liverpool fans seem to be resorting more and more to tired clichés about arsenal to deflect from it.


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  • #391
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    L'prof wrote: »
    ...I can't hear you...

    I'll never say never again in this day and age, but he's our great hope. I think he'll definitely win trophies at Arsenal. How soon and how often they come will play a big part in his decision at some stage though. 11 years at the club already and counting!


    And for that reason alone I hope he stays with Arsenal his whole career. Not because I think he will or will not be top class, but simply because it is a great feeling as a supporter to have a talent to pin such hope upon and it is something that every supporter should be able to feel at some point for their club.


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