Road rage against cyclists is it just me?

magicbastarder · 21-07-2013 03:16PM

anyway, getting back to overtaking; if you're on a two lane road, and there are cyclists two abreast in front of you; either the oncoming lane is visible and clear of traffic - in which case, overtake away - or it's not. and if it's not, you shouldn't be overtaking *anything*. the position of cyclists in your lane is moot.

bambergbike · 21-07-2013 03:22PM

1 character

SpaceTime · 21-07-2013 03:23PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyway, getting back to overtaking; if you're on a two lane road, and there are cyclists two abreast in front of you; either the oncoming lane is visible and clear of traffic - in which case, overtake away - or it's not. and if it's not, you shouldn't be overtaking *anything*. the position of cyclists in your lane is moot.

My issue isn't with two abreast it's more with a full scale mini-peloton developing where you've no gaps in which you can overtake at all. I've seen that happen quite a bit, especially in the good weather we were having until today.

Outside of an organised road race with traffic restrictions in place, you shouldn't really create that kind of rolling roadblock type situation.

If there are decent gaps between slow moving bunches of cyclists, traffic can get past without any risk to anyone.

If it becomes one huge long thing that a driver has to overtake for too long, then it's risky.

I do agree though, a lot of Irish drivers can't overtake properly at all. Whether it's a cyclist, a car, a tractor etc some people seem to do this thing where they kind of drive right up to it, then can't see around it properly then keep frustratedly driving at it and then sort of overtake in a blind panic.

People like that need driving lessons / eye sight checks! They're either too hyper or too nervous to be behind a wheel.

bambergbike · 21-07-2013 03:29PM

Not sure if it has been pointed out yet that cyclists are actually doing drivers a favour when they stay far enough out in the road to be visible from a distance even when the road is far from straight.

If I cycle hugging the verge, I regularly becoming invisible to following traffic as the road twists and turns. Then drivers either notice me at the last minute, get a shock, and have to make sudden corrections to their course and speed (frayed nerves, wasted petrol, hard on the car). Or they don't notice me at all - the worst case scenario - and overtake me without having clocked that I am there at all. Not good.

So when I hear a car behind me, my first move is actually to move OUT a bit to try and make myself visible to the driver while he or she is still (relatively) far away. Then the motorist slows down a bit, I know they have seen me, and I move in if it's safe to overtake. I stay well out until I hear the vehicle behind slowing, since I can only assume that a driver who hasn't slowed hasn't seen me yet.

On a flat or downhill stretch of road, I sometimes pull in and stop, especially if I need to let a large, ugly vehicle like a quarry lorry past that would otherwise be waiting a while for a spot suitable for overtaking.

If I'm climbing, stopping is a really bad idea. On a twisty road without many straight stretches, a close pass at a suboptimal overtaking location is fine by me (less than 3 feet, hopefully more than 1) if it is carried out very, very slowly. A motorist overtaking me very slowly and carefully without crossing the white line is infinitely preferable to a motorist leaving me loads of space, colliding with oncoming traffic and bouncing straight back into my path at speed. And if there's a line of motorists, the first guy overtaking proficiently will generally prompt the others to do the same.

If a climb is steep (<15%) I need a bit more "wobble space." On a very steep climb I will sometimes deliberately wobble a bit to signal to following traffic that I might suffer from some accidental wobble when being overtaken. Other cyclists may need more wobble space - drivers should expect the unexpected and pass cyclists on uphill stretches of road very slowly.

If a descent is steep (<10%) I need lots of space and there is typically no point in me pulling in - it will cost a driver less time to wait for a good spot (while doing 50 km/h instead of, say, 80) than it would cost me to stop and move off again.

Basically, the more polite the driver, the smoother the collaboration and the quicker the overtake. Drivers who complain a lot of rude cyclists may need to rethink their own approach.

PerrDub · 21-07-2013 04:36PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

a full scale mini-peloton developing where you've no gaps in which you can overtake at all.

Outside of an organised road race with traffic restrictions in place, you shouldn't really create that kind of rolling roadblock type situation.

If there are decent gaps between slow moving bunches of cyclists, traffic can get past without any risk to anyone.

If it becomes one huge long thing that a driver has to overtake for too long, then it's risky.

Right so, these things called "Cycling Clubs" who generally go out at 8 or 9am on a Sunday morning should perhaps just buddy up with a pal and go out on there own?
God forbid people would want to go cycling with all there mates in a group just to create a "rolling road block" for John and Mary going to mass, or Billy breakfast roll heading down to the Spar for something to try fix his hungover head?? :pac:
I think you will find that most clubs are aware of this and do cycle in small groups leaving gaps... after all there is safety in numbers, I would rather be over taken as if i was a slow moving vehicle rather than just as if i was a traffic cone!

oflahero · 21-07-2013 05:35PM

I really do like how the banned poster seriously claims he was looking for a 'debate'. Anything but. There's more than a few of his ilk lurking here, just waiting for a reason to jump in to abuse cyclists if they read something they dont like. Here's some advice: please stop lurking and sod off outside in your car for a drive, it's lovely out there.

SpaceTime · 21-07-2013 06:20PM

PerrDub wrote: »

Right so, these things called "Cycling Clubs" who generally go out at 8 or 9am on a Sunday morning should perhaps just buddy up with a pal and go out on there own?
God forbid people would want to go cycling with all there mates in a group just to create a "rolling road block" for John and Mary going to mass, or Billy breakfast roll heading down to the Spar for something to try fix his hungover head?? :pac:
I think you will find that most clubs are aware of this and do cycle in small groups leaving gaps... after all there is safety in numbers, I would rather be over taken as if i was a slow moving vehicle rather than just as if i was a traffic cone!

Yeah, you'd want to watch out for John and Mary ! They're always off to mass with their breakfast rolls because they're non-cyclists. :rolleyes:

The tax man · 21-07-2013 06:59PM

oflahero wrote: »

I really do like how the banned poster seriously claims he was looking for a 'debate'. Anything but. There's more than a few of his ilk lurking here, just waiting for a reason to jump in to abuse cyclists if they read something they dont like. Here's some advice: please stop lurking and sod off outside in your car for a drive, it's lovely out there.

Sure he's still rabbiting on over on the Motors Forum. Apparently anyone on a bike can't afford a car.:rolleyes:
With a statement like that, I don't think you'd get much of a debate.

ericzeking · 21-07-2013 08:19PM

I was going to post a similar thread the other day after a training ride last Thursday night, I was beeped 4 times for who knows what and a guy pulled out of a side road in his van & trailer right in front of me while looking me straight in the eye. For what its worth I'm on the road 6 nights a week minimum race training and consider myself to be courteous to drivers, I don't cycle on paths and don't break red lights. The announcements definitely feed into the 'them and us' consensus.

Here's a noteworthy point...lots of traffic lights don't recognise cyclists... you would often have to wait for a car to get them to change or you have to roll through them... If you're that way inclined!!

Jawgap · 21-07-2013 08:20PM

F&cking hell! Just saw a load of lycra-clad cyclists - big group, no lights and only one of them wearing hi-viz.

Glad they're in Paris!

Captain Havoc · 21-07-2013 08:22PM

-PornStar- wrote: »

Overtaking should be a mandatory part of the driving test. There are a small minority of drivers out there, who just haven't a clue how to behave around other road users.

It is.

steamengine · 21-07-2013 08:43PM

ericzeking wrote: »

Here's a noteworthy point...lots of traffic lights don't recognise cyclists... you would often have to wait for a car to get them to change or you have to roll through them... If you're that way inclined!!

Some operate via surface strips which appear as dark rectangles on the road surface. As your wheels run over them they activate the lights. Sometimes I weave over them or loop back if there is an undue delay. Others operate via a sensor on top of the pole (possibly infra-red). I find I have to stay out in the centre of the lane and pass by them slowly for them to activate.

No Pants · 21-07-2013 08:44PM

-PornStar- wrote: »

There are a small minority of drivers out there, who just haven't a clue how to behave around other road users.

I'm normally out on my own and therefore single file. It's scary the amount of drivers that decide to overtake me around blind corners.

Jawgap · 21-07-2013 08:52PM

^^^^^^^great 1st post !!

Beasty · 21-07-2013 09:22PM

Jawgap wrote: »

^^^^^^^great 1st post !!

It wasn't his first and won't be his last, but he's gone (together with all his posts) for now ...

shootermacg · 21-07-2013 09:31PM

What bothers me as a cyclist is, if a car is passing me out on the flat or down hill, then he's more than likely breaking the speed limit.

calistro · 21-07-2013 09:45PM

I commute on rural roads most days and haven't really experienced anything major other than a bit of beeping and the odd too close for comfort passing, but what I have noticed is the increase in the number of instances of verbal abuse, ("Real men ride woman not bikes") being the most favoured :rolleyes: and objects being thrown from cars such as cans, bottles and yesterday some chicken bones

And while most comes from young lads it's worryingly becoming more common from people my own age who should have a bit of sense.

robertxxx · 21-07-2013 09:50PM

Well on tomorrow's commute I will go nukelear on some c::t if they start giving ****.

worded · 21-07-2013 10:17PM

I was beeped at in the centre years ago and I didn't know whether it was an impending crash or a warning. It was totally unnecessary and Either way he was being an arsehole and it really shook me.

I ate him out of it and asked him when was the last time he was on a bike? I also called him a fat b*stard.

He will think twice before getting unnecessarily Agressive with cyclists.

A Motor cyclist friend of a friend was once gently rammed / nudged twice at two red lights in a row by the same motorist. The same motorist was tail gaiting him as well. He is a passive giant but took exception and got off his Motor bike and introduced his helmet to the fellows head. Problem solved. No reoccurance.

Relatively more people in sunnier counties have cycled and driven motorbikes than us and are savy to their weaknesses and needs. Over here we have had licence amnesties where dumbos are behind the wheels and other fat and or selfish car drivers that have long forgotten how vulnerable people are on two wheels.

Live and let live.

John_Rambo · 21-07-2013 10:35PM

calistro wrote: »

I commute on rural roads most days and haven't really experienced anything major other than a bit of beeping and the odd too close for comfort passing, but what I have noticed is the increase in the number of instances of verbal abuse, ("Real men ride woman not bikes") being the most favoured :rolleyes: and objects being thrown from cars such as cans, bottles and yesterday some chicken bones
And while most comes from young lads it's worryingly becoming more common from people my own age who should have a bit of sense.

I'm a urban/city commuter. I drive sometimes. Has anyone seen the 'lesson teaching' action of a driver buzzing a cyclist (close passing) on purpose if they feel the cyclist is out of order? I have seen this twice and it was done to me once. I have had accidents years ago, but they are too long gone to mention.

First two times were cars driving by cyclists shockingly close. There's a short, stupidly impractical cycle lane on the opposite side of the road (The East wall end of the Alfie Byrne road in Dublin) and I'm guessing some drivers feel the cyclist shouldn't be on the road and are close passing. Let me point out on both occasions there was an empty lane to the right of them (two lane carriageway). I could see the cyclists wobble with the fright. Very dangerous.

The time it was done to me was on a downhill stretch (St. Laurence's Road, Clontarf towards the coast). It's a busy residential road with a few creches, lots of cars parked with lots of activity, there are a few speed ramps too. I was clipping along at (a rare) 35kph in the middle of the left hand lane and a girl entered the right lane to over take. The traffic was stopped ahead of us, but she floored it to get by me, her car bottomed out on a ramp and pulled in before the overtake was complete, I was cycling on my front wheel at this stage with smoke coming off my front disc! She was well prepared for me when I confronted her, told me I had no right to cycle in the middle of the road. I calmly asked her did she do that on purpose to teach me a lesson and she clammed up and the windows went up and locks went on. Dropped in to Clontarf Garda station, they were really helpful, but I got the reg wrong!

Other than that, it's a fairly calm cycling life for me. I could make a meal out of some situations, but, like cars, I have brakes and I'm aware of my surroundings.

ThisRegard · 21-07-2013 10:45PM

If it's the same person he's not doing his whinge for mercy in the prison forum much good.

Beasty · 21-07-2013 11:04PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

If it's the same person he's not doing his whinge for mercy in the prison forum much good.

It's not - I suspect the guy you are referring to is banned from prison (and for everyone else's benefit all his posts have been deleted by the Admins)

ozzy jr · 21-07-2013 11:27PM

I think a lot of motorists think they're untouchable inside a car and feel that they can be as aggressive and intimidating as they want.

I've had a few incidents where motorists have given me a close shave. I usually put my arm up in the "what the hell was that" gesture. It's usual to get two fingers back. When you catch them at the next set of lights, it's quite common for the person to be a little wimp, that couldn't fight their way out of a wet bag.

On one such occasion I had a women do that on the road from Enniskerry to Glencree. With no lights ahead I knew I wouldn't catch up with her. On going around the next corner there was a cement lorry blocking the road. I pulled up beside her and looked in at her. Her eyes didn't deviate from looking straight ahead!

(for the record I'm a cyclist and a motorist)

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 21-07-2013 11:34PM

im going to post here as a car head but im not looking for an argument and im not going to abuse anyone specifically or the likes.

but the main issue i think with cyclists is how they act on the roads (not everyone but some)

i think the majority of people here in the cycling forum do their best when not messing about so this isint attacking anybody here.

my encounters with cyclists in the last 3 years driving have being 50% good and 50% bad.

the main problem i've had is i've nearly killed 4 cyclists because i was driving down the road @ 50 KM/h and a cyclists comes through a red light on a junction leaving me to slam on to avoid hitting them, they think they can do as they please like that (again not saying you guys but just the one's i've come across.)

as for the guy here earlier that said he moves out to the road when he hears a car coming is just stupid altogether. I mean if im coming around a bend and all of a sudden a cyclists is right in front of me then i might not have enough time at all to stop but atleast if your cycling against the kerb or bush etc then i could atleast possibly have enough space to get around you without going across the other side of the road and causing an accident of some kind.

@shootermacg: dont let it bother you if someone is overtaking you by breaking the speed limit, thats something motorists deal with too, just let the gardai handle them and dont try stop them. I'd never purposely get in someones way in my car to slow them to the speed limit or anything, it could end up with you being confronted by a big burly lad with a weapon or a few mates, just not worth the hassle and best stay out of it.

but i do agree that some motorists are complete arses too and I dont like them either but just like i dont plaster all cyclists with the same name you shouldnt think all motorists are evil !

I do it very simply, if you respect the rules of the road etc then i've no problem and i'll be polite with you but if your an arsehole to me then i'm just gonna ignore you and not bother with you at all. I wouldnt bother getting into confrontations or the likes.

ozzy jr · 21-07-2013 11:37PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I mean if im coming around a bend and all of a sudden a cyclists is right in front of me then i might not have enough time at all to stop.

There lies your problem. If you think you don't have time to react to something that might be around the corner, slow down.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 21-07-2013 11:40PM

ozzy jr wrote: »

There lies your problem. If you think you don't have time to react to something that might be around the corner, slow down.

I agree, and i know that too but you have to remember there are plenty of idiots driving cars and boy racers etc that will thunder down a road and fly around a corner to impress mates or whatever it might be and where does that leave you in the middle of the road ?

like i say you never know whats gonna happen.

Granny could crawl around or the young lad in a micra will go at 100KP/h

CramCycle · 21-07-2013 11:49PM

as for the guy here earlier that said he moves out to the road when he hears a car coming is just stupid altogether. I mean if im coming around a bend and all of a sudden a cyclists is right in front of me then i might not have enough time at all to stop but at least if your cycling against the kerb or bush etc then i could at least possibly have enough space to get around you without going across the other side of the road and causing an accident of some kind.

Your going round to fast, you have no idea on any blind corner what is around it, you should be able to stop in the space you can see, therefore you should never be driving so fast that hitting a cyclist cycling in the middle of the lane is an issue. I am not having a dig but it is worth realising. At least if the cyclists is in out a bit you will see them earlier, hopefully hit the brakes and nothing will happen, rather than seeing them almost too late, getting brave and attempting an overtake on a bend which could leave you facing an oncoming lorry.

@shootermacg: dont let it bother you if someone is overtaking you by breaking the speed limit, thats something motorists deal with too, just let the gardai handle them and dont try stop them. I'd never purposely get in someones way in my car to slow them to the speed limit or anything, it could end up with you being confronted by a big burly lad with a weapon or a few mates, just not worth the hassle and best stay out of it.

Very good advice, reminds me of those morons I hear about (and sometimes see) driving in the 2nd overtaking lane on the M50 at the speed limit to force speeders to slow down. It is ridiculous and just as illegal and far more stupid IMO.

but i do agree that some motorists are complete arses too and I don't like them either but just like i don't plaster all cyclists with the same name you shouldn't think all motorists are evil !

I am a motorist too, my wife will tell you I am more of an asshat in the car but not for any of the reasons mentioned in thread, I find cycling alot less stressful. I see all the stupid things in a car, I take a breath and leave it be but part of me hopes that the product of their stupidity will bear fruit one day (to them obviously, not an innocent by passer).

21-07-2013 11:49PM

I still find it depressing that there's a cyclist versus motorist/pedestrian argument.

As someone who is all 3 of the above, here are the rules I take the odd liberty with:

Pedestrian: If there's a Red Man at a pedestrian lights, I usually look and if safe to cross the road then I will. Also, I jaywalk sometimes.

Cyclist: I (rarely, but sometimes) cycle on the footpath. If I come to a set of red lights, I look to see if it's safe, and if it is then I break them.

Motorist: Amber traffic lights means put the foot down to beat it.

Now, if anyone is either a pedestrian/cyclist/motorist has ever done any of the above, then they forfeit their right to have a go at one of the other, in my opinion.

Let's show each other a bit more solidarity and respect, it's the 21st Century ffs

CramCycle · 21-07-2013 11:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pedestrian: If there's a Red Man at a pedestrian lights, I usually look and if safe to cross the road then I will. Also, I jaywalk sometimes.

No problem with it.

Cyclist: I (rarely, but sometimes) cycle on the footpath. If I come to a set of red lights, I look to see if it's safe, and if it is then I break them.

Why not wait?

Motorist: Amber traffic lights means put the foot down to beat it.

Oddly enough, the greateryour potential to harm others on the road due to the damage you could do, the stupider the risks you seem to take?

Let's show each other a bit more solidarity and respect, it's the 21st Century ffs

I won't show respect to someone who behaves like that on the road, I will show you respect when you follow the rules of the road because you have earned it, and for no other reason.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 22-07-2013 12:04AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Your going round to fast, you have no idea on any blind corner what is around it, you should be able to stop in the space you can see, therefore you should never be driving so fast that hitting a cyclist cycling in the middle of the lane is an issue. I am not having a dig but it is worth realising. At least if the cyclists is in out a bit you will see them earlier, hopefully hit the brakes and nothing will happen, rather than seeing them almost too late, getting brave and attempting an overtake on a bend which could leave you facing an oncoming lorry.

Anyone could be going too fast, i could slow down i dont mind or whatever but that doesnt mean every other person in a car is going to do the same for you, you have to account for any idiot on the road bby car/bike/bus etc.

if im cycling anywhere i stay most left as possible to avoid any trouble, its simple, why put yourself in harms way ?

its a person on a bike, not the easiest of things to miss driving down a road when thats exactly what your looking at anyway so any decent driver will see you.

Road rage against cyclists is it just me?

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