Engagement ring shopping!

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 11:18AM #1

Hi everyone!! I have just recently got engaged and its still very much being kept quiet as we need to pick the ring! I just wanted to ask some opinions on the high street jewellery shops in Dublin. Is is true that you wont get value in some of the main jewellers such as Weirs, Sheerans or Applebys up the Grafton Street end of Dublin? I have read some posts where people say these shops have marked up the price of their jewellery however I would have thought they would have been supplying good quality jewellery. Also do people have any advice as to what really makes your ring a "good" ring per se. I have read over and over again all about the 4 c's but I would like to see what people have found is best to focus on to ensure a good diamond! I hope this makes sense as I am still very new to all of this!!

helimachoptor · 21-07-2013 11:29AM

Talk to seamus in Voltaire, bought engagement and both wedding rings with him (he has a boards account) good price and a fantastic service.

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 11:32AM

Hi helimachoptor just wondering did you find better value going this route as opposed to going to one of the jewellery shops in town?

pooch90 · 21-07-2013 12:14PM

Definitely go to Voltaire, if nothing else, they take away all the nerves and scariness involved in making such an important purchase and don't try to push anything on you that's outside of your budget.
It also lets you get something a little bit different. I haven't seen anyone with an E-ring like mine, in a sea full of halo set rings.

seannash · 21-07-2013 12:25PM

in general diamonds are a lot more expensive over here.

I got my fiances ring in new york and had it valued for insurance purposes.it was valued at twice the value we paid for it.
recently we had to get it revalued and it was valued at 3 times what we paid.
I quizzed the valuation because it put my house I surance up and they said if you were to buy the same ring in Ireland it would cost you that

helimachoptor · 21-07-2013 01:43PM

engaged1315 wrote: »

Hi helimachoptor just wondering did you find better value going this route as opposed to going to one of the jewellery shops in town?

Yes, also tbh the impression with a shop is it sales but with Seamus (while obviously he wants the sale) it's not pushy in the slightest.

I had a recommendation from a friend who'd used him.

Jack Kyle · 21-07-2013 01:45PM

I'd recommend a trip to Antwerp.

If you do your research, you can make serious savings.

username123 · 21-07-2013 02:31PM

I got mine in one of the main shops you mentioned. We knew the cost was going to be over the odds, but on a purchase that size, we both wanted the assurance that we would have good after sales care. Id have little interest in going abroad and the cost that it would entail, plus the worry that my cluelessness was making me an easy target to be ripped off.

I preferred to use an established Dublin business. They have repaired and remounted the engagement ring for free for me after it got damaged, clean the rings once a year, absolutely no quibble and treated as though you are spending the same amount again when you are in there.

I know some people are more interested in getting a bigger bang for their buck, but I was more interested in long term peace of mind. (we were loaded at the particular time as well, ah the celtic tiger!)

seannash · 21-07-2013 02:31PM

it all depends on how much your spending though.
if your not spending a lot the saving might not be anything significant to be honest.

I'm not saying you have to spend a lot I'm just saying you might be worrying about nothing

Jack Kyle · 21-07-2013 02:35PM

Just to clarify, I did a lot of research and went to a reputable jeweller in Antwerp.

I saved around 60% a reasonably large number by doing this.

I could pay for my wife to have the ring checked by someone in Dublin every six months for the rest of our lives and still be in the money.

username123 · 21-07-2013 03:05PM

I think the previous posts (including my own) really illustrate the different mindsets on it. It really depends on how you view the engagement ring, and what type of a person you yourself are.

I wouldnt like to be wearing a ring that was worth an enormous sum of money - Id see it as a waste, Im just not that materialistic about things like jewellery.

I also wouldnt be bothered doing loads of research - for a ring. Its supposed to be a romantic gesture so Id prefer it to be treated as such, and not as an investment.

One thing I will say now, if I could go back and do it again, Id only want a fraction of the cost spent. Its a ring. Thats all it is. Sometimes I look at it (and the wedding/eternity ring) and imagine the holidays we could have had for the cost of them, or the year we could live mortgage free if we had the cost of them back again!!

Everyone is different, so do whatever suits you.

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 06:32PM

Hi username 123 I think I am of the same opinion as you. I have to say we visited all of the above shops and their prices are very much in line with one another.What I did find though in one particular shop they treated you like royalty were in no way pushy and I felt a lot more at ease with them knowing they have been in business for a long long time and have a good name( and if something went wrong that I could just pop in!).However I would like to know that I am getting value for my money though and I find that its hard to know that when you have never bought a diamond ring before! I wonder have any of the other posters who were so kind as to give me their advice would have any idea as to what standard of a ring I could get somewhere like Antwerp of Voltaire with a budget of 4000k max. As I havent mentioned our engagement to anyone except both sets of parents I am finding it very difficult to get advice or guidance and any more would be greatly appreciated!!

Jack Kyle · 21-07-2013 06:59PM

Pick out a ring for €8,000 in a Dublin jewellers.

Go to Antwerp.

Buy the same spec ring for €4,000.

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 07:23PM

Can I just ask when you buy your ring is it valued at the price you pay for it in a jeweller or do you go and get your own valuation done on it? Could it ever happen that your own independent valuation would be less than what the jewellery shop said? That seems like a big saving Jack!

Jack Kyle · 21-07-2013 07:32PM

engaged1315 wrote: »

Can I just ask when you buy your ring is it valued at the price you pay for it in a jeweller or do you go and get your own valuation done on it? Could it ever happen that your own independent valuation would be less than what the jewellery shop said? That seems like a big saving Jack!

It's a while since I did my research, but diamonds are a commodity like anything else and traded on exchanges like the one in Antwerp. They have a "price". A decent jeweller in Antwerp just strolls down to the exchange, buys the diamond, makes the ring and adds a reasonable profit margin.

On the other hand a broker in Antwerp buys the diamond, adds his profit margin and sells the diamond to a wholesaler who then adds his profit margin and sells it to a jeweller in Ireland who then adds his profit margin which is (like everything in Ireland) ridiculous.

By going direct to Antwerp (or somewhere like South Africa) you can eliminate layers of profit taking.

username123 · 21-07-2013 07:49PM

engaged1315 wrote: »

I have to say we visited all of the above shops and their prices are very much in line with one another.

Oh yeah, something that they dont tell you until you show the colour of your money is the price on the ring is not the price they charge, they knock off up to 25% when it comes down to buying. They dont tell you this until youre sitting there saying - yes, I think we will go for this one. After I twigged this in one of those places, I became more upfront in the next and asked whats the best price they can do it for. Its a bit silly because I had ignored rings I thought were nice but beyond budget but they would have been within budget if Id known they knock money off!

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 08:10PM

Oh yikes thats very confusing username123! Do they really knock up to 25% off? that sounds like an awful lot! So if a ring was €5k they would give if for less than €4k?

username123 · 21-07-2013 08:16PM

engaged1315 wrote: »

Oh yikes thats very confusing username123! Do they really knock up to 25% off? that sounds like an awful lot! So if a ring was €5k they would give if for less than €4k?

Yeah - depends on the ring - sometimes they are wanting to clear older stock.

I know from memory that it was at least 1k on rings up to 5k and sometimes more - although sometimes less - I guess it depended on the mark up, the age of the stock etc.. Some styles come in and out of fashion whereas some are more timeless.

There was one ring we looked at for 7k and were told theyd let it go for 5.6k. But there was another I liked for 6k and they only offered 500 euro off.

This was back in boom time mind you so there may have been more scope to do this, since the downturn in the economy perhaps they are not so "generous" in their discounts. The only way to know is to ask - but know that yes, you can haggle.

The other thing is I got my wedding ring in the same place and because my file is there it was correctly sized, and then hubby surprised me with an eternity ring after a year and he had it in the right size and it matched the existing rings because again he went back to the same place - so its handy that way too.

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 08:27PM

thats all great information to have to hand username123. I was wondering if you or any other posters would have any idea as what to be expecting to pay for a ring with a .55 centre stone, and .40 carats in the shoulders and setting, with an e clarity and si1 inclusions? Its very hard to find an exact match as elsewhere u could find the same amount of carats and different colour or else less something different on clarity! Also do you recieve a valuation with your ring or do you have to go and get your own done independently?

username123 · 21-07-2013 08:30PM

engaged1315 wrote: »

Also do you recieve a valuation with your ring or do you have to go and get your own done independently?

I cant answer the rest of your post but yes, we received a valuation with the ring and also a cert of some kind stating the diamond was ethically sourced and was recorded on some central diamond database - I dont know where this is now so cant remember the detail on it.

engaged1315 · 21-07-2013 08:48PM

thanks again for all your help. I think it has put me more at ease to know that there are other people who think along the same lines of myself and like to know the security of having the shop there to pop into at anytime. I am a little worried about getting a ring totally made from scratch for fear it wont come out as I had it visualised so i think its safer to maybe pay a bit more for the "name" of the shop of know that I am happy with how it looks! thanks for your help username123

username123 · 21-07-2013 08:57PM

Have a look at some of the work of independent ring designers and makers before you make your final decision.

As far as I am concerned, time and travel have a cost involved in themselves. I am someone who likes a stress free life. The thoughts of having to do loads of research, travel to a different country etc to save a few quid - it just wouldnt be worth it to me. I dont want to be a diamond expert, I want to pay someone who already IS a diamond expert!

Ive also seen a negative outcome of such endeavours in a couple of cases, one where an extremely wealthy friend took his missus to be to New York and off they went to the diamond district and he paid 10k for a ring, came home, brought it to be valued for his insurance and it turned out it was worth far far less than he had paid. Obviously he went back, but man, the hassle, New York - having to get time off work to go back, the cost, the engagement being ruined with this awful memory etc....

seannash · 21-07-2013 10:42PM

username123 wrote: »

Have a look at some of the work of independent ring designers and makers before you make your final decision.

As far as I am concerned, time and travel have a cost involved in themselves. I am someone who likes a stress free life. The thoughts of having to do loads of reseaorch, travel to a different country etc to save a few quid - it just wouldnt be worth it to me. I dont want to be a diamond expert, I want to pay someone who already IS a diamond expert!

Ive also seen a negative outcome of such endeavours in a couple of cases, one where an extremely wealthy friend took his missus to be to New York and off they went to the diamond district and he paid 10k for a ring, came home, brought it to be valued for his insurance and it turned out it was worth far far less than he had paid. Obviously he went back, but man, the hassle, New York - having to get time off work to go back, the cost, the engagement being ruined with this awful memory etc....

and this can't happen in Ireland??

if your worried about the value of the ring(which the op clearly is) she should look at buying the stone loose and put it in a setting she likes.

also the convenience of having your ring size on file isnt something that would affect a purchase for me.

Op check out blue Nile for a rough guide to retail prices for diamonds

also make sure it has a gia cert.
there are other certificates but gia is considered the most trusted.buying a loose diamond and putting it in a setting is a great way to go.

username123 · 21-07-2013 10:55PM

seannash wrote: »

and this can't happen in Ireland??

Of course it can but Id imagine its an unlikely scenario from the Irish places that are mentioned in the OP, they have been in business for decades and have good reputations. Whereas if you go abroad you wouldnt know the reputation of where you are going (not without a lot of research and Ive already stated my opinion on that). Plus if you have an issue of that magnitude from an Irish shop you dont have to arrange time off work and fly halfway round the world to resolve it. I mean, its pretty obvious an issue is far less stressful close to home than a transatlantic flight away!

I think you missed the point about the ring size - its not just the size but the ring itself that was on file so the eternity ring is a match in style and diamond size - basically it works because it was an option to make a matched set. And they had my size on file.

name0123 · 22-07-2013 07:41AM

I really wanted to get my engagement ring made so I spent the day in dublin looking at rings. when I found one I loved I got onto a few places that specialise in making rings and I can just say one place in dublin that is very popular for this was much more expensive than buying the ring from the shop.

I ended up getting it made down in wexford and absolutely love it

seannash · 22-07-2013 10:25AM

username123 wrote: »

Of course it can but Id imagine its an unlikely scenario from the Irish places that are mentioned in the OP, they have been in business for decades and have good reputations. Whereas if you go abroad you wouldnt know the reputation of where you are going (not without a lot of research and Ive already stated my opinion on that). Plus if you have an issue of that magnitude from an Irish shop you dont have to arrange time off work and fly halfway round the world to resolve it. I mean, its pretty obvious an issue is far less stressful close to home than a transatlantic flight away!

I think you missed the point about the ring size - its not just the size but the ring itself that was on file so the eternity ring is a match in style and diamond size - basically it works because it was an option to make a matched set. And they had my size on file.

You do make it sound like the research is hard.
You can pull retail sales prices for any sized,cut,clarity diamond at a moments notice online to see if your being had or not
Once it has a GIA cert your good to go really.

I bought my fiance's engagement ring in the diamond district and like I said its increased in value.
I wasn't looking for the best bang for buck but I did have a size and cut I wanted (1.5CT,Cushion cut) and got a great deal on it.
I had planned on getting the setting sperately but they had the one I wanted in the shop and got the whole lot done in one afternoon.

I know it wont matter to some but the OP clearly wants to get good value and imo you wont get it in a retail store in Ireland(The overheads they have compared to an online store are ridiculous and as a result there mark up is higher)

I get your point about them having your ring on file but this would also restrict you with your ring choice too and cost aswell if you stuck to that store.

The other option is one that has had the impurities removed via lazer
Enhanced diamonds are alot cheaper and sometimes the lazer holes are invisible to the naked eye once filled.
This is how people can get a big diamond for very little money as the cost drops severly.

Unless its certified by GIA,regardless of where you buy it, be careful to make sure its not an enhanced diamond.

Dont accept any other certification.

mrbad · 27-07-2013 11:55PM

seannash wrote: »

in general diamonds are a lot more expensive over here.

I got my fiances ring in new york and had it valued for insurance purposes.it was valued at twice the value we paid for it.
recently we had to get it revalued and it was valued at 3 times what we paid.
I quizzed the valuation because it put my house I surance up and they said if you were to buy the same ring in Ireland it would cost you that

Hi Seannash. Just wondering when you paid your importation tax z(20%?) and then the vat(23%) , was it really that great value? And isn't a valuation really for it at a top price... I mean your not going to sell it at that price.if a shop in town has a ring valued at 10000... They will with a haggle sell for I guess, 7500, but the valuation is still 10000.
Interestingly I note the insurance companies refuse to pay out if you have illegally imported a ring and notbpaidnthe vat and importation tax. So you have a uninsurable piece of jewellery.

Jack Kyle · 28-07-2013 07:33AM

mrbad wrote: »

Interestingly I note the insurance companies refuse to pay out if you have illegally imported a ring and notbpaidnthe vat and importation tax. So you have a uninsurable piece of jewellery.

A myth put out by the jewellery industry in Ireland to protect its rip-off culture and scare people into not shopping elsewhere.

Corkbah · 28-07-2013 07:44AM

Jack Kyle wrote: »

A myth put out by the jewellery industry in Ireland to protect its rip-off culture and scare people into not shopping elsewhere.

from what I understand the insurance company are interested in valuation of the item insured - you dont have to show or give them the receipt...so if I'm correct that debunks it also...and I think I'm right.

Jack Kyle · 28-07-2013 10:08AM

Corkbah wrote: »

from what I understand the insurance company are interested in valuation of the item insured - you dont have to show or give them the receipt...so if I'm correct that debunks it also...and I think I'm right.

Absolutely.

I've never seen or heard of an insurance company looking for evidence that VAT was paid on an item.

And for purchases made in the EU (e.g. Antwerp), VAT and customs duty aren't relevant.

seannash · 28-07-2013 10:12AM

mrbad wrote: »

Hi Seannash. Just wondering when you paid your importation tax z(20%?) and then the vat(23%) , was it really that great value? And isn't a valuation really for it at a top price... I mean your not going to sell it at that price.if a shop in town has a ring valued at 10000... They will with a haggle sell for I guess, 7500, but the valuation is still 10000.
Interestingly I note the insurance companies refuse to pay out if you have illegally imported a ring and notbpaidnthe vat and importation tax. So you have a uninsurable piece of jewellery.

to answer your question, never paid import tax as I had it in my carry-on luggage.
I get your point about valuations but I have discussed this with the appraisers because I wanted a lower valuation and was told that if I wanted to buy this ring again this is the cost.
the ring has been appraised 3 times at this stage.

as for the uninsurable part, I think people have answered that.

Engagement ring shopping!

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