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Supreme Court orders Garda murderer be given remission.

2

Comments

  • #32
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    stoneill wrote: »
    Forgive my memory of the case if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that he walked back up to Sgt Morrissey when he was injured on the ground and shot him again.


    Sgt Patrick Morrissey was viciously murdered by Michael McHugh. Sgt Patrick Morrissey a good and decent man doing his job was first shot by Michael McHugh as he gave chase to Callan and McHugh. McHugh then executed him at point blank range.....

    IMHO McHugh deserved the death penalty, Callan was a scumbag and a thief but he didn't shoot Sgt Patrick Morrissey. I don't think Callan would have been convicted of murder if it was not a member of the Garda who was killed.

    However Callan was found guilty and served more time than most, even if his crime was less than some who are found guilty of manslaughter.

    I don't actually give a f*ck about Callan, my problem is the courts and justice system who let those who committed equal or lesser crime out after much shorter periods of detention.


  • #33
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    Why should Garda Murder be treated any different to the Murder of an ordinary average Joe ?

    It is very odd. Is there any explanation?


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Old and grey wrote: »
    Wrong again, he didnt recieve a life sentence he recieved a death sentence which was commuted to 40 years on the then general understanding that he would not recieve remission.

    It's doesn't matter what sentence he got, in your own words you said "Murderers do not get early release they are granted temporary release with strict conditions" which simply isn't the case. This man was tried for murder and his sentence was dearth. This was later changed to 40 years in prison and now he is justifiably trying to attain the same treatment that most other convicted of the same crime receive. If he does get out of prison, and he wouldn't be the first person to then it's clear that there is early release for some murderers.


  • #35
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Honestly, who are the court to consider for remission - that should only be given by the victims tbh...

    Are you joking?! Victims should have no input in sentencing or anything to do with punishment.


  • #36
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    It is very odd. Is there any explanation?
    The offence dates from 1964, before which "capital murder" was a term not known to law in Ireland.

    Apparently the Oireachtas wanted to get rid of the death penalty insofar as was possible, but took the position that the Gardaí do extraordinary work as an unarmed police force and had a special claim to whatever additional protection the law could give its members.

    And that meant the death penalty, in the interests of law and order, was reserved for the Guards and named "capital murder".

    After the death penalty was completely abolished, the term just stuck. The view also stuck that a Garda life (or dar I say, a Garda murder) is more 'valuable', and this is probably a view that persists to the present day in the civil and criminal fraternity.

    The people view it as an attack on the state and there are criminal elements who perhaps view it as a mark of their defiance to an opposing authority. So the argument goes, we need to redouble our efforts to stamp it out.


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  • #37
    theSHU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭theSHU


    FFS

    The judiciary in this country are pathetic. It's time to invoke the 29th amendment and start docking judges pay if they continue to act like this. This animal should only be let out of prison in a coffin.


  • #38
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    A MAN entering his 28th year of a 40-year sentence for the murder of a Garda could be freed almost immediately after a five judge Supreme Court ruled today he is entitled to be considered for remission, including the greater remission available for good behaviour.


    If granted even normal remission, Noel Callan will be freed by 2016 but the court also ruled he, who was described as a "model prisoner" was eligible for the higher remission of one third... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-killer-sentenced-to-40-years-is-granted-early-release-29432209.html


    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The State had argued, when a sentence is commuted, the right to statutory remission is lost. A central issue in the case was whether Mr Callan has the status of a prisoner who has been "sentenced".
    Today, the Supreme Court granted a declaration he is a person who has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment exceeding one month who is therefore eligible, by good conduct, to earn remission, including higher remission, under the relevant prison rules.
    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The court rejected the arguments Mr Callan was serving "a commutation" rather than a sentence.

    Well should a man convicted of murdering a Garda be given remission ? He has served 27 years.

    My own opinion is that if the man has shown that he is fully reformed and abides by all the states terms after 27 years inside he should be eligible for a supervised release.


  • #39
    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    No. He was sentenced to 40years so let him serve 40years. Can't do the time then don't do the crime.


  • #40
    sparrowcar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    Johnny Electricity wrote: »
    No. He was sentenced to 40years so let him serve 40years. Can't do the time then don't do the crime.

    He was 22 when the crime was commited which in my book made him a child in real life terms. He's already served 27 years and apparently is a model prisoner and completely reformed to point he is well regarded by the prison guards.

    I would have some strict conditions to his release but wouldn't try and stop it.
    If he had killed a citizen rather than a member if the Gardai would that make a difference?


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    While I think you're OP has some very well written points I am flabbergasted that you can consider a 22 year old to be a child.

    The fact that a Garda was killed raises some interesting points. Should a guardian of the State be regarded as 'more valuable' (for want of a better word) than a regular everyday citizen when it comes to sentencing? Is it the case that these sentences should deter our society from becoming lawless, ie harshest punishments for those found guilty of killing our protectors.

    On the flip side, 27 years is twice the normal amount of time served for well behaved lifers in this country. So perhaps that fact would appease those looking for extra punishment owing to the fact a serving Garda was killed.

    And yes, life should mean life, but it rarely does over here.


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  • #42
    Matt_Trakker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Matt_Trakker


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Should a guardian of the State be regarded as 'more valuable' (for want of a better word) than a regular everyday citizen when it comes to sentencing?
    No
    Omackeral wrote: »
    27 years is twice the normal amount of time served for well behaved lifers in this country.

    He's done enough time imo. I can't imagine the Hell of being stuck in prison for 27 years. I doubt he'll ever return to a 'normal' life.
    What he did was no doubt terrible and he must live with knowing he stole someone's life. But I think 27 years is enough punishment.


  • #43
    Sky King
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    If the Garda was a member of my family I would want him to stay there indefinitely.


  • #44
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Omackeral wrote: »
    The fact that a Garda was killed raises some interesting points. Should a guardian of the State be regarded as 'more valuable' (for want of a better word) than a regular everyday citizen when it comes to sentencing?

    I'm guessing it acts as a 'deterrent' for criminals to retaliate against policemen.


  • #45
    maximoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,220 ✭✭✭maximoose


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056995404


  • #46
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,077 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    He was 22 when the crime was commited which in my book made him a child in real life terms.

    In real life terms a 22 year old is an adult who knows the difference between right and wrong.


  • #47
    martinedwards
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭martinedwards


    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.


  • #48
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    maximoose wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056995404


    Dident see that sorry mod,s, I did search I swear :P


  • #49
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.

    Very Interesting point.


  • #50
    ImDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ImDave


    The interesting thing from what I know of this case, is that he was sentenced to murder but was a passenger in the car/accomplice to an earlier crime. He didn't supply the weapon or pull the trigger. I didn't know one could be sentenced to murder in such a situation.


  • #51
    sparrowcar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    To clarify my 22 year old child comment. I mean that at that age you are a child in life knowledge and still at a impressionable age. I know legally he is not a child.

    To contradict myself, in my industry I know 22 year olds who command aircraft with 180+ passengers on board so I suppose it depends on upbringing and development.


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  • #52
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........
    To be fair, most people recognise the need to balance out principle against the greater good.

    In principle the IRA scum should be left to rot in prison, but if their release can secure a lasting peace (and it has), then it serves the greater good.

    We do also have to remember that the aim of prison is not to exact revenge for a person's crime on behalf of society. It serves firstly as a deterrent, but primarily its purpose is punishment - to try and rehabilitate the offender to the point that they understand why their crime was wrong.

    It's based on the knowledge that people do change and they do learn. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, and I've done plenty of dumb things back then which I wouldn't dream of doing now.

    I don't see any reason why this man can't have changed in 27 years (he's nearly 50 now), and if those charged with his care and with assessing him have agreed that he's a changed man, then I see no purpose being served in holding him for another 13 years, just because.


  • #53
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    realies wrote: »
    A MAN entering his 28th year of a 40-year sentence for the murder of a Garda could be freed almost immediately after a five judge Supreme Court ruled today he is entitled to be considered for remission, including the greater remission available for good behaviour.


    If granted even normal remission, Noel Callan will be freed by 2016 but the court also ruled he, who was described as a "model prisoner" was eligible for the higher remission of one third... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-killer-sentenced-to-40-years-is-granted-early-release-29432209.html


    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The State had argued, when a sentence is commuted, the right to statutory remission is lost. A central issue in the case was whether Mr Callan has the status of a prisoner who has been "sentenced".
    Today, the Supreme Court granted a declaration he is a person who has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment exceeding one month who is therefore eligible, by good conduct, to earn remission, including higher remission, under the relevant prison rules.
    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The court rejected the arguments Mr Callan was serving "a commutation" rather than a sentence.

    Well should a man convicted of murdering a Garda be given remission ? He has served 27 years.

    My own opinion is that if the man has shown that he is fully reformed and abides by all the states terms after 27 years inside he should be eligible for a supervised release.

    His release on remission will be totally unsupervised as his sentence will then be considered served.


  • #54
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Why is it a bigger crime to kill a guard than a civilian? Surely when they sign up they know they are going to be put in risky situations and it is their job to protect the public. I am not for a second saying it is OK to kill or even assault a Guard but i don't see why it is a much bigger crime.

    If he had a killed a normal Joe soap he would have been out over a decade ago. It says that he has been a model prisoner and he didnt even fire the gun.


  • #55
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Cody Pomeroy gave an an excellent answer to that on the other thread on this subject
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85584752&postcount=36


  • #56
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    Threads merged


  • #57
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.

    Gardai and RUC are not comparable. The RUC were combatants in a war. They were a corrupt organisation that acted as the armed wing of a bigoted unionist state and colluded with loyalist death squads. They made themselves targets.
    Prisoners were released as part of a political settlement..
    Completely different scenarios and attempting to draw parallels is just petty point scoring


  • #58
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.

    "Southies" wow thats classy.
    Actually we did make a fuss and the killers of Detective Garda Gerry McCabe were refused release under the GFA.
    In the UK Judges who sentence Murderers are allowed set a minimum tariff which must be served before parole can be considered. The Irish public (that would be us "Southies") were led to believe that this man, who had his death sentence commuted, would serve the full 40 years without remission.


  • #59
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The number of people who kill someone in this country and end up serving some paltry sentence like 5 or 6 years is ridiculous - this guy has served almost 30 years. That's a bloody lengthy sentence - people could do with keeping a bit of perspective i reckon.


  • #60
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    ImDave wrote: »
    The interesting thing from what I know of this case, is that he was sentenced to murder but was a passenger in the car/accomplice to an earlier crime. He didn't supply the weapon or pull the trigger. I didn't know one could be sentenced to murder in such a situation.

    I would imagine if it had'nt been a garda that was killed the murder charge wouldnt have flown at all.


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  • #61
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    The number of people who kill someone in this country and end up serving some paltry sentence like 5 or 6 years is ridiculous - this guy has served almost 30 years. That's a bloody lengthy sentence - people could do with keeping a bit of perspective i reckon.

    Exactly. If released in 2016 he'll have served more than 30 years. he went into prison at 22 and will be coming out in his 50s. Surely he has passed the punishment and rehabilitation stages by now. It doesn't serve the state to keep him in any longer.
    He wasnt the triggerman and he has been a model prisoner for nearly three decades.
    It was a horrendous act and I hope the bastards who shot Garda Donohoe end up spending a similar amount of time behind bars, but after 30 years and the best part of the fella's life gone now anyway, this just smacks of revenge, not justice.


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