Why can nobody speak Irish?

Speisekarte · 18-07-2013 08:48AM

Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don't once remember the teacher asking us to have a simple conversation with our classmates in Irish.

Conway635 · 18-07-2013 08:55AM

ITDept wrote: »

As a (terrible, murdering, female-disembowelling, oppressor) Brit .

Sorry - I should have made it more clear that these were HIS views being forced on impressionable children, and NEVER my own.

I lived happily in the UK for many years, and married an English woman (a double rejection of this priest's teachings, as he occasionally veered off the topic of "800 years" to lecture us on the evils of women).

C635

southsiderosie · 18-07-2013 08:55AM

I have to wonder, if Ireland's political situation was different would people be so opposed to learning Irish? When I lived in the Basque Country, young people, particularly in Gipuzcoa and Bizkaia, were enthusiastic about reviving the Basque language, in part because it had been repressed for so long. And unlike Catalan, Basque is not remotely related to Spanish (or any language, really), so it is very hard to learn.

It is a shame, really - many people from other countries are enamored with the Irish language (in part because Hiberno-English is so charming), but so many Irish people seem to loathe it because it is stuffed down their throats. From my outsider's perspective, I wonder if everyone would be better off if, instead of Irish being mandatory and resources spread thin, Irish language resources were concentrated on developing full immersion programs for ~20% of the population that extend from preschool to the university level. At the point where a significant percentage of the population had actual fluency (not the nonsense on the census forms), then the language would likely be safe for the future (and immersion instruction could be scaled up). But this would require both a long-term (20+ years) view on language and education policy, plus major concessions from the Irish language lobby...which is just another way of saying that it ain't gonna happen.

MusicalMelody · 18-07-2013 09:00AM

I never went to an Irish speaking primary or secondary school. When i got into secondary school i had a genuine interest in learning the language. I did my homework, listened in class and during the summer went to the Gaeltacht. I am now fluent in Irish and currently doing a degree through the Irish language. I also wanted to go into media as a career and it is a plus to have the language. Although in fairness it was hard to learn and i still have awful problems with the grammar. But i guess it's like learning every other language.

December2012 · 18-07-2013 09:00AM

WindSock wrote: »

More people have heard Dothraki being spoken than they have Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Cornish combined.

But not High Valaryian!

BeerWolf · 18-07-2013 09:11AM

Been living in Ireland since '96 - don't know a single word of Irish... :pac:

wolfpawnat · 18-07-2013 09:11AM

Speak for yourself, I can hold a fairly decent conversation in Irish, so can the OH. And our son is going to gaelscoil in September. It is all in the way it is taught. Our son wanted to learn it, now he loves it. We sit down with him and praise him for the basics such as learning to count to ten and the like.

18-07-2013 09:14AM

Having had it beat into us, it just brings back too many bad memories.

kiffer · 18-07-2013 09:18AM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I can hold a fairly decent conversation in Irish, so can the OH. And our son is going to gaelscoil in September. It is all in the way it is taught. Our son wanted to learn it, now he loves it. We sit down with him and praise him for the basics such as learning to count to ten and the like.

I can count to ten in Irish... where's my parade?!
I was exempt but only found out in 6th year...
Anyway years after leaving school I have retained more Irish than many of my friends, I was in Pass and they were in Honours... turns out that memorising essays to write in exams doesn't make you better at a language...

18-07-2013 09:21AM

You're all in big trouble, just wait 'till the usual crew of zealots, cranks and snap-eyed bores get wind of this thread......

1. According to the constitution yada, yada...
2. Why can't we speak our own language and be different to those horrible Brits don't you know...
3. It's part of our culture, ask anyone in Spiddal...

Or try this one, summerized from a previous thread, I think by someone called 'Coles', apologies if incorrect: Only those as thick as pigsh1t could fail to pick it up at school.

So we're all stupid, uncultured philistines, not only sleeping with the enemy but whispering sweet nothings in his language.

I'm out before they get here with their twisted logic and tortuous double-speak, good luck!

keeponhurling · 18-07-2013 09:26AM

elefant wrote: »

Someone said 'Irish people suck at languages'. What a self-deprecating fallacy.

Agree, this is just more self-loathing nonsense.

I consider myself quite good at languages, and would put part of that down to being in a bilingual environment from very young (i.e. English at home, Irish at my gaelscoil)

Dravokivich · 18-07-2013 09:27AM

December2012 wrote: »

When was the last time you titrated something?

All the time if I was involved in some sort of Chemistry, which is a big industry in this country...

December2012 wrote: »

The last time you used algebra knowingly?

Every day, algebra is about multiple variables to get a result. It's not all "2A and 4Y = X, what's Z."

December2012 wrote: »

Transposed from a major into a minor chord?

Music is also a big industry in this country. Its also very popular for recreation. I'm sure there's plenty of people reading through your post thinking, "I had me a bit of that last night."

December2012 wrote: »

Quoted Shakespeare, Keats, Joyce?

Comprehending a well told story isn't about quotes...

wolfpawnat · 18-07-2013 09:30AM

kiffer wrote: »

I can count to ten in Irish... where's my parade?!
I was exempt but only found out in 6th year...
Anyway years after leaving school I have retained more Irish than many of my friends, I was in Pass and they were in Honours... turns out that memorising essays to write in exams doesn't make you better at a language...

I'll arrange the parade for you later

He is 4 and can count to ten and knows a few bits in Irish all because of how he is taught. We made it everyday and fun. As a result when he goes to school it will be easier and more accessible to him. A lot of people are bilingual by the time they reach school. I have a neighbour whose daughter is the same age as my son and she is fluent in Polish and English. When parents make the effort, children learn these things very easily.

And memorizing things you don't understand is great for school exams, useless in life

Sleepy · 18-07-2013 09:31AM

Because the vast majority of us don't give a **** about it and have no interest in learning, or speaking it.

joe stodge · 18-07-2013 09:32AM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Why is it that people in Ireland start learning Irish at the age of 5 and most never learn to speak it fluently? In Europe they do pretty much the same with English and most Europeans can hold a decent conversation in English.

Is it the way Irish is taught? I didn't grow up in Ireland so I'm curious to know why so many people seem to have difficulty with it, given that it's taught at such a young age.

I can speak it.
Am I the only one left?

December2012 · 18-07-2013 09:35AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

All the time if I was involved in some sort of Chemistry, which is a big industry in this country...

Every day, algebra is about multiple variables to get a result. It's not all "2A and 4Y = X, what's Z."

Music is also a big industry in this country. Its also very popular for recreation. I'm sure there's plenty of people reading through your post thinking, "I had me a bit of that last night."

Comprehending a well told story isn't about quotes...

I agree with you - You've just confirmed my point.

The value in learning something in school should not be solely equated with how "useful" something is for business or work.

I agree about algebra, maths, music, science, all of the subjects!
And last night some people spoke Irish too.

We use things every day, sometimes for enjoyment, sometimes for work. Education must be looked at holistically and that's why I think Irish and other languages should remain a subject in schools.

Just because we are not all professional athletes doesn't mean we stop teaching PE

Some parts of education are about learning to learn, expanding the thought process and expanding the mind.

CruelCoin · 18-07-2013 09:36AM

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

No they can't.
Go to anywhere east of Poland and let me know how you get on speaking English. :rolleyes:

"Most" he said.

I think you'll find "most" europaeans live west of Poland jfyi.

CruelCoin · 18-07-2013 09:38AM

elefant wrote: »

If almost every film we saw, every song we heard, many of the TV shows we watched since we were children were in Irish with English subtitles I bet we'd all be speaking Irish as well as we speak English.

It's incomparable to other nations in Europe- they're immersed in more than one language- of course they pick them up.

Someone said 'Irish people suck at languages'. What a self-deprecating fallacy.

I said that.

I'm not going to bother digging it up for you, but go away and look at the stats for average language competency state by state, and you'll find us on the bottom of the table, or near enough.

hoodwinked · 18-07-2013 09:41AM

joe stodge wrote: »

I can speak it.
Am I the only one left?

no there is my husband and i too, we both converse in irish frequently, (and not just when we don't want our daughter to know what we are saying) we also speak in french sometimes, but that drives him mad because i speak too fast.

Friend Computer · 18-07-2013 09:42AM

The focus is on it being a cultural institution rather than a language to be used day-to-day. If the reverse were the case there'd be a focus on grammar and syntax rather than rote learning of prose and poetry.
But then that'd acknowledge that for the vast, vast majority of people it's a second language.

Sunnyisland · 18-07-2013 09:43AM

It was beat into us when we where young by teachers and christian brothers(talking early 70,s here),So I grew up to hate it and associate it with terror

.Later on I was sent to the gaelteaccht for eight weeks and absoutly loved it there,went for four years on the trot and learned it pretty well,

All my children went to an all Irish school and have very good bascic Irish and occaisionaly will have confersations in it,alas its not spoken enough and its only in later years that you seem to regret speaking in our native langauge.imo.

Eogclouder · 18-07-2013 09:43AM

A few reasons.

1. Functionally, it has no use in your day to day life, you don't need it to buy milk or bread, you don't need it for any kind of taxes or anything functional in that sense. 99.99% of people who speak it, also speak English.

2. There is an underlying attitude of disdain for the language. People consider it dead, pointless, useless etc. This leads to it being taught badly and starts a perpetual cycle of disinterest. for example, you dont care in school and your teacher doesn't, you scrape by in pass/foundation, become a teacher and pass on the disdain.

3. The Dept of education hate Irish, it wouldn't be a thing if they had enough power to do so, they work against the language.

4. Over time, standards are lowered and lowered so people get passing grades, leaving everything looking good on paper but no fluency or literacy in the language in reality.

Mixed bag really!

Del2005 · 18-07-2013 09:45AM

I blame her

fishy fishy · 18-07-2013 09:47AM

Its only a "dead language" to those who can't speak it.

Irish is still very much alive and is the main language used on many Islands and around the West of Ireland - it is certainly not a dead language. In fact it is growing in popularity, with people from other countries attending Irish language classes which are usually booked out.

Irish leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths after the way it was taught in school - however, that shouldn't be a reason to hate the language, instead of just hating how it was taught.

Irish, when you understand it is a very lovely language.

Sam Kade · 18-07-2013 09:50AM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Why can nobody speak Irish?

Is English your main language

Dr Bob · 18-07-2013 09:51AM

Regardless of how badly its taught, theres one sentence in Irish most people never forget

"An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas, más é do thoil é?"

IrishExpat · 18-07-2013 09:52AM

A sound I'll gladly never hear again!

'Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpháipéar na treoracha agus na ceisteanna ...'

timetogo · 18-07-2013 09:52AM

For me, I rememeber learning poetry & Peig when I could barely string two sentences together. When I look back at that, what a monumental waste of time. For me it would have been way more beneficial to teach me conversational Irish rather than try and memorise phrases of poetry.

I remember my strategy for the Leaving Cert was to learn bits of poetry & Peig. If the relevant poem or chapter in Peig came up in the exam all I did was quote the section I learned and threw in a few sentences. I passed the exam in the Leaving cert 20 years ago and never looked at Irish again.

I also did French for the Leaving. I got a higher grade in that and I can make myself understood now when I speak to somebody who can only speak French.

Plazaman · 18-07-2013 09:52AM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

And do they use them daily? Or weekly? Or ever?

Pahtak !!! May all your children have smooth foreheads.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I can hold a fairly decent conversation in Irish, so can the OH. And our son is going to gaelscoil in September. It is all in the way it is taught. Our son wanted to learn it, now he loves it. We sit down with him and praise him for the basics such as learning to count to ten and the like.

Here is the key. I went on a Irish Language "refresher" course recently just to see what it was like. 2 days a week for 3 weeks. Right not a major course but a lot of Irish words and phrases came back to me. But it was the way it was taught that impressed me with emphasis on conversational Irish with no fear of if you make mistakes or not. The idea is within a group of 5 or 6 ye talk among yourselves and what you don't know, someone else will. None of this beating tenses and the thistle ginijuck (using phonic for that one) into you.

elefant · 18-07-2013 09:54AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

I said that.

I'm not going to bother digging it up for you, but go away and look at the stats for average language competency state by state, and you'll find us on the bottom of the table, or near enough.

Obviously I'm not going to bother 'digging' it up.

Don't you think the fact that we are only exposed to one language in everyday life might be more of a factor in Ireland ranking near the bottom of said list then that we, as a nation of people, despite having produced some of the greatest writers in history in the language that we do speak, are just bad at languages? Or would it be a coincidence that all the very monolingual countries you can think of are native English speaking?

Why can nobody speak Irish?

Comments