Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

hexosan wrote: »

I see this got a mention on the consumer show on rte the other night, minister hogan basically stated it was going to solve all of Ireland's problems. When asked why not go down the full inspection route his reply was people were paying arch's, engineers & builders to do a job so it was up to these professional to do their job properly and with in the regulations.

I watched the same programme and could almost see Hogan throwing the curveball into the private sector.

I also got a sense that any certifier who makes a balls of an inspection whereby a defect (latent or otherwise) is not spotted and is detrimental to the build will be hung out to dry.

Rightly so you might think but even professional building surveyors might miss something and be hit with massive negligence suits. I wouldn't be signing anything risky like one of those Certs even if my mother was the builder!

tootsy70 wrote: »

Would these new amendments only apply to buildings built after the starting date of this bill.

Buildings commenced after 1st March 2014. However, anything in planning from December of this year at the latest, and probably from now could feasibly fall under the scope of the Design Cert.

Most RIAI Techs that I know including myself are no longer members of the Institute as they did not in any way attempt to represent us or our interests in this dabacle.

Does anyone have an update on this, is it still due to come into force in August or is it to be delayed again.

sinnerboy wrote: »

The new building control regulations come into affect next March 2014.

It is the new Health and Safety Regulations that have been put back to Aug 2013.

Sorry should of stated I meant the new Health and Safety Regulations.

I went to a lecture on the "strengthening" of building control last night. The speaker was a senior civil servant from the DOE.

I had heard and read a bit about the amendments but last night was the first time I was informed of the changes first hand. During the Q&A session it got a little heated.

My interpretation of what is happening is this:

1) The designer (architect, engineer etc) along with the builder must sign an absolute statement at the commencement of the project to say the design is in compliance with the building regulations and the builder will build in accordance with the building regulations. Drawings and calculations are to submitted to the local authority but its at the local authorities discretion if they check these. Access to these drawings and calculations can be viewed online under the freedom of information act.

2) At the end of the project an absolute statement must be signed by the designer/site supervisor and builder that the works fully comply with the building regulations. As built drawings and calculations to be uploaded to the local authority to be reviewed only if they chose to do so.



I don't see this changing much. The wording of the act will have be watered down from an absolute statement to something that insurance companies can live with. After that happens there is no real change except builders will have to sign statements.

Drawings and calculations are to be uploaded to the local authority but it seems clear these will not be looked at unless there is a problem down the road at which stage the local authority will hang the designer and builder out to dry leaving the local authority to walk away scot free.


I don't see how the proposed changes will prevent another Priory Hall. They do nothing to stop a rogue builder and an easily manipulated designer from going ahead with work that does not comply with the building regulations. By the time the buildings are constructed and sold it is too late to influence the construction and the completed building becomes another huge problem.


The way this system works makes no positive intervention to stop poor buildings being constructed and sold in the first place. The mechanisms largely happen retrospectively and let's be honest is a way for the local authorities to cover their backsides.


Proper building control that once existed in this country in bygone days involved local authority building inspectors reviewing and checking drawings/ calculations and visiting sites. This is the only preventative measure that works. This of course is how it is done in the UK.


As far as I see it we will just proceed as before signing more pieces of paper until some architect or engineer ends up in the high court based on negligence. This is about as useful as a mirror is to a blind person.

We live in a country of the blind. We desperately need intelligent leadership and not negative punitive legislation that is ultimately of no benefit to anyone.

strongback wrote: »

I went to a lecture on the "strengthening" of building control last night. The speaker was a senior civil servant from the DOE.

I had heard and read a bit about the amendments but last night was the first time I was informed of the changes first hand. During the Q&A session it got a little heated.

My interpretation of what is happening is this:

1) The designer (architect, engineer etc) along with the builder must sign an absolute statement at the commencement of the project to say the design is in compliance with the building regulations and the builder will build in accordance with the building regulations. Drawings and calculations are to submitted to the local authority but its at the local authorities discretion if they check these. Access to these drawings and calculations can be viewed online under the freedom of information act.

2) At the end of the project an absolute statement must be signed by the designer/site supervisor and builder that the works fully comply with the building regulations. As built drawings and calculations to be uploaded to the local authority to be reviewed only if they chose to do so.



I don't see this changing much. The wording of the act will have be watered down from an absolute statement to something that insurance companies can live with. After that happens there is no real change except builders will have to sign statements.

Drawings and calculations are to be uploaded to the local authority but it seems clear these will not be looked at unless there is a problem down the road at which stage the local authority will hang the designer and builder out to dry leaving the local authority to walk away scot free.


I don't see how the proposed changes will prevent another Priory Hall. They do nothing to stop a rogue builder and an easily manipulated designer from going ahead with work that does not comply with the building regulations. By the time the buildings are constructed and sold it is too late to influence the construction and the completed building becomes another huge problem.


The way this system works makes no positive intervention to stop poor buildings being constructed and sold in the first place. The mechanisms largely happen retrospectively and let's be honest is a way for the local authorities to cover their backsides.


Proper building control that once existed in this country in bygone days involved local authority building inspectors reviewing and checking drawings/ calculations and visiting sites. This is the only preventative measure that works. This of course is how it is done in the UK.


As far as I see it we will just proceed as before signing more pieces of paper until some architect or engineer ends up in the high court based on negligence. This is about as useful as a mirror is to a blind person.

We live in a country of the blind. We desperately need intelligent leadership and not negative punitive legislation that is ultimately of no benefit to anyone.

Was there any mention of extending the list of approved professionals to certify a building to include arch technicians?

Multiple choice questions

1. The year is 2019 . Your apartment , together with all 75 others in a 2015 build is seriously defective. By the gift of Mr Hogan's new regulations you will have recourse to

a) The local authority
b) The Dept of Environment / The Minister
c) Any number of individuals and companies associated with the development
d) One named individual who by statute has accepted sole responsibility for all of the above

2. All those involved in construction who understand the new regulations will

a) continue to do an honest days works for a honest days pay
b) strive to keep up to date with all the current and future technical requirements and increasing building regulations standards
c) will continue to implement b) on the ground / on the site
d) knowing that at the end of the process some one (only) other sucker is bound by law to sign off all the works anyway ( even those works he is not trained or competent to assess ) - do non of the above.

3. Minister Hogan has by the gift of this new legislation

a) done all the citizens a fine service , construction standards in Ireland are bound to improve
b) ensured that the new Property Taxes we all pay are put to damn fine use
c) shown that he really and truly cares about Priory Hall and all those affected by the Pyrtite scandal
d) done non of the above. He will be retired on a fat ministers pension by the time most of you wake up to all this.

In the context of Local Authorities and their activities Building Control Officer is an oxymoron. They don't visit sites.

kceire wrote: »

From what I've seen so far it's still limited to architect, engineer and surveyor.




No drawings are lodged with the building control authority at present.

There is no requirement by the local authority to look at the drawings and calculations once they are submitted.

There is no approvals process where the local authority must sign off that drawings/calculations comply with the building regulations.

The new legislation provides a self regulatory system. What we have had up to now is a self regulatory system. Nothing in reality will change in terms of the quality of construction that takes place.

The DoE were hoping that by making professionals and builders sign absolute statements it would somehow improve the quality of construction.


All these uploaded drawings and calcs are going to float around in a new Cloud that the government is setting up. They will only get pulled down when a problem has arisen.


No architect or engineer I have spoken to has any problem with a full checking and approval system as exists in the UK.