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Can TV Licence inspectors check your bedroom?

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  • 14-07-2013 1:38pm
    #1
    Smashius_Clay
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭


    I received a letter recently saying that a TV licence was not registered for the apartment in which I live. I share an apartment with two other people.

    We have no television in our living room, nor are we set up for Saorview, Sky or any of those things.

    However, I am wondering, if a TV licence inspector calls around, are they allowed to check your bedroom?

    Leaving aside whether or not any of us have a television any of our rooms, it does seem to be rather an invasion of privacy to ask to see someone's bedroom.

    If a TV licence inspector called round, would I have the right to refuse him/her access to my bedroom?


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    #2
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    I cant see you getting much joy from saying "sure you can come in and inspect my property, provided you dont look in that room over there"...!


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    #3
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    You don't have to show them anything (unless they have a warrant / court order). However, that may arouse suspicions.


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    #4
    Smashius_Clay
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Smashius_Clay


    Victor wrote: »
    You don't have to show them anything (unless they have a warrant / court order). However, that may arouse suspicions.

    What if I were to say, 'my housemates aren't home, and I wouldn't feel comfortable going into there rooms without their consent'.

    Does that mean they'll come back again?


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    #5
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    They cant enter your property atall!


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    #6
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Doop wrote: »
    They cant enter your property atall!
    They obviously can if they have your permission.


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    #7
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Depends if they are good looking or not


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    #8
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    They're not allowed to enter your property at all without your permission, or a court order.

    But the assumption is that you have a tv. So if you aren't prepared to invite them and show them every room in order to prove you havent, you'll be getting a demand for payment


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    #9
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    So if you aren't prepared to invite them and show them every room in order to prove you havent, you'll be getting a demand for payment

    Total BS, I do not have to invite anyone into my proeprty to prove I dont have something.

    I have told the Tv inspector at my door that I dont have a tv, and i have not allowed him look around my private residance (nor did he ask needless to say) I recieved no 'demand for payment' ....for that yr anyway.


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    #10
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    Doop wrote: »
    Total BS, I do not have to invite anyone into my proeprty to prove I dont have something.

    I have told the Tv inspector at my door that I dont have a tv, and i have not allowed him look around my private residance (nor did he ask needless to say) I recieved no 'demand for payment' ....for that yr anyway.

    You're lucky. I've experienced the opposite

    On what basis then does anyone ever get taken to court? If you can just say "I havent got a tv, mate", and they say "oh, that's ok then"


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    #11
    Smashius_Clay
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Smashius_Clay


    Has anyone returned the letter saying they do not have a television set? Do you know if it is likely they'll call around to your house in that case?


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    #12
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    You're lucky. I've experienced the opposite

    On what basis then does anyone ever get taken to court? If you can just say "I havent got a tv, mate", and they say "oh, that's ok then"

    good point, i dont honestly know. I guess you get taken to court for not having a licesnce when you do have a tv. How they prove that i dont know!


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    #13
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0146.html#sec146
    Broadcasting Act 2009
    146.— (1) An issuing agent may appoint persons to be officers of the issuing agent for the purposes of this Part.

    (2) A person appointed under subsection (1) shall, on his or her appointment be furnished by the issuing agent with a certificate of his or her appointment and when exercising a power conferred by subsection (3) shall, if requested by any person thereby affected, produce such certificate to that person for inspection.

    (3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

    (4) An officer of an issuing agent may request any person on the premises or at the place where he or she finds a television set or evidence of such to produce the television licence for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place for inspection by the officer.
    reads to me that they can.


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    #14
    hadook
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭hadook


    Smashius_Clay wrote: »
    Has anyone returned the letter saying they do not have a television set? Do you know if it is likely they'll call around to your house in that case?

    I did in 2011 and called them to confirm they'd gotten it too. Offered to let them in whenever they wanted to see that we don't have a TV (we haven't had one since 2010) but haven't seen an inspector yet.

    Our address is a townland though so it might be too much effort to visit us. Or they came by while we were in work and tried to look in the windows only to find either a great dane or a german shepherd staring back at them and decided not to bother.


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    #15
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    UDP wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0146.html#sec146
    reads to me that they can.

    Says to me that they can enter your house. Doesn't say to me that they can enter without your permission which would be a breach of other laws. They are bound to the same laws as other enforcement bodies.

    I don't have a TV. At this stage I don't answer the door or talk to them. I get a notice once a year, that's about it. Not addressed to me either.


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    #16
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Says to me that they can enter your house. Doesn't say to me that they can enter without your permission which would be a breach of other laws. They are bound to the same laws as other enforcement bodies.

    I don't have a TV. At this stage I don't answer the door or talk to them. I get a notice once a year, that's about it. Not addressed to me either.

    Fair enough. But once you've been visited in person I'd guess you're probably on their radar. I doubt they just give up!

    And the OP is better off just showing them around to prove they haven't got a tv. I've no doubt that it started with s visit for all those currently in court for non payment


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    #17
    Smashius_Clay
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Smashius_Clay


    UDP wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0146.html#sec146
    Broadcasting Act 2009
    146.— (1) An issuing agent may appoint persons to be officers of the issuing agent for the purposes of this Part.

    (2) A person appointed under subsection (1) shall, on his or her appointment be furnished by the issuing agent with a certificate of his or her appointment and when exercising a power conferred by subsection (3) shall, if requested by any person thereby affected, produce such certificate to that person for inspection.

    (3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

    (4) An officer of an issuing agent may request any person on the premises or at the place where he or she finds a television set or evidence of such to produce the television licence for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place for inspection by the officer.

    reads to me that they can.

    What's classed as any reasonable time? Can they visit weekends? After 8pm?


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    #18
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Says to me that they can enter your house. Doesn't say to me that they can enter without your permission which would be a breach of other laws. They are bound to the same laws as other enforcement bodies.

    I don't have a TV. At this stage I don't answer the door or talk to them. I get a notice once a year, that's about it. Not addressed to me either.

    They ask to be allowed in to search for any tv and if you refuse they just call the guards who will uphold the inspectors right to enter your property.


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    #19
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They ask to be allowed in to search for any tv and if you refuse they just call the guards who will uphold the inspectors right to enter your property.

    So a an-post TV inspector has the power through the Gardai to force entry to a property without a warrant or permission?

    Could you point me towards the relevant documentation that states when and where the inspectors were allowed break some of the most fundamental laws of our society?

    Keeping in mind, if that was the case this forum would be filled with threads of people getting quite angry over the forced access, since there are plenty of threads on this subject.


    The process for An-post is very simple.
    They visit any property that doesn't have a license registered.
    They knock/ring and ask to speak to a tenant.
    They look into the property through windows in the Public areas(front gardens) to see if there is a TV visible, if there is no answer.
    If a person answers, they take their name and ask for permission to enter and search.
    If access is denied, they issue a summons to that name and take them to court.
    If they have no name and no answer, they can't issue a summons.
    If they see a TV, they go to lengths to retrieve a name like checking mail records to that house, signed for delivers etc and then issue a summons to that name.

    At this stage, I'm sick of dealing with them and trying to explain why a 27 inch computer monitor is not a TV. So because I rent and move about a fair bit, if I get a knock and its the TV license inspector, I say "lovely to meet you, have a nice day" and close the door. They have heard all the excuses, so don't bother. Just don't talk to them.


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    #20
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    At this stage, I'm sick of dealing with them and trying to explain why a 27 inch computer monitor is not a TV.

    Does it have SCART or HDMI input? If so then it is capable of receiving a TV signal and you would be liable to pay for a TV license.


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    #21
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    djimi wrote: »
    Does it have SCART or HDMI input? If so then it is capable of receiving a TV signal and you would be liable to pay for a TV license.

    I work in AV. I could in theory place a TV signal onto your phone, laptop or tablet. That doesn't mean they are TV's. A TV in terms of this license is a device capable of decoding a TV signal. Which none of my electronics are.


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    #22
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    I work in AV. I could in theory place a TV signal onto your phone, laptop or tablet. That doesn't mean they are TV's. A TV in terms of this license is a device capable of decoding a TV signal. Which none of my electronics are.

    A TV is determined as a device that is capable of receiving a television signal through aerial, satellite, cable or other means. Basically, any device that is capable of displaying video and sound through SCART, HDMI or RF input would fall under this as they would all be capable if receiving a television signal.

    From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html:
    Every household, business or institution in Ireland with a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (using an aerial, satellite dish, cable or other means) must have a television licence.


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    #23
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0140.html:
    “ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;


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    #24
    cypressg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cypressg


    What happens if you simply never answer the door to them?


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    #25
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,226 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Smashius_Clay wrote: »
    What's classed as any reasonable time? Can they visit weekends? After 8pm?
    I'd assume it's whenever someone is at home.
    Smashius_Clay wrote: »
    Has anyone returned the letter saying they do not have a television set? Do you know if it is likely they'll call around to your house in that case?
    I have the letter, about to return it. Seems to me that if you don't return it, they assume you have a tv. So if you dont have the licence you get fined. If you return it saying you don't have a TV, they'll send someone around to check. If you lie on the form, it's a grand fine.
    Now, when the TV licence guy knocks you could either just never answer, or refuse to let him in. Not sure how far it has to go before the gardai are involved. Would be interesting to know the details of what they need to forcably enter your house. I doubt a search warrent would be issued for a TV licence. But there's probably some clause in the law that says if you don't let the guy into your house for a visual inspection, it's assumed you have a tv, and court procedings will happen unless you get your licence.
    I'm in the same boat btw, have the letter and wondering what to do. Haven't watched RTE in 2 years and don't intend on doing so.


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    #26
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,294 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    cypressg wrote: »
    What happens if you simply never answer the door to them?

    It depends.
    If they have your name they will keep sending letters.
    If they can see in your window that you have a TV you will evetually get a summons.
    If you live in an apartment and they don't know what your name then nothing happens and you will get away with it indefinitely.

    I for one never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. If a person that I want to talk to calls unexpectedly then they will call or text me. Otherwise it is someone selling airtricity/vodafone/some other crap who I have no interest in talking to. I have yet to answer the door to a stranger and get good news.

    and to answer the OPs question, No I would not let them in my bedroom or even into my house.


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    #27
    cypressg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cypressg


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    It depends.
    If they have your name they will keep sending letters.
    If they can see in your window that you have a TV you will evetually get a summons.
    If you live in an apartment and they don't know what your name then nothing happens and you will get away with it indefinitely.

    I for one never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. If a person that I want to talk to calls unexpectedly then they will call or text me. Otherwise it is someone selling airtricity/vodafone/some other crap who I have no interest in talking to. I have yet to answer the door to a stranger and get good news.

    and to answer the OPs question, No I would not let them in my bedroom or even into my house.
    They have my name and have sent lots of letters and a registered letter which I never picked up.
    I never answer the door and they can't see into my apartment.


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    #28
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    ... And the OP is better off just showing them around to prove they haven't got a tv. ...
    Sounds to me like the OP has TVs, just not in the communal living areas; have a read of the strangely worded post again.


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    #29
    Corkbah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭Corkbah


    cypressg wrote: »
    They have my name and have sent lots of letters and a registered letter which I never picked up.
    I never answer the door and they can't see into my apartment.

    registered letter is usually a court date .... so you may have a judgement against you in the district court.


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    #30
    cypressg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cypressg


    Corkbah wrote: »
    registered letter is usually a court date .... so you may have a judgement against you in the district court.
    How does that work when I never picked up the letter?The post office only holds it for 5 days and I wasn't able to pick it up as-insert excuse here.


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    #31
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    djimi wrote: »
    Does it have SCART or HDMI input? If so then it is capable of receiving a TV signal and you would be liable to pay for a TV license.

    Simply saying "Oh your TV has a Scart connector therefore it is capable" is not good enough, and it's lazy, cynical painting of the regulations that makes people think that is the case. Technically - using the interpretation you are applying djimi, every man, woman, and child in possession of a smart phone needs a TV license.

    If you have a TV (or other device) that is - at the moment in time we are discussing - not able to receive a broadcast signal then the argument falls flat on its face. You do not receive a broadcast signal via any sort of cable; cables are nothing but a medium. You receive a broadcast signal by another piece of equipment. If you are lacking that equipment (or the cables to connect it all up for that matter) to receive a broadcast signal, well then again, the argument again falls flat on its face.

    The important words are "broadcast signal". That means live TV, now.

    Granted, the above does not apply to a TV that has built in capability to receive broadcast signals. Same for having your tv/video/pctv-card plugged into an active, working wall socket of some sort, as again you are able to receive a broadcast signal because you are physically able (i.e. you are in possession of the physical cable needed) to do so.

    The TV licensing people are a law unto themselves and will tell you fib after fib to paint themselves as an imposing authority figure. Some of the tactics & letter content they use here in the UK is outrageous and they are notorious for being highly selective with the truth and aggressive & intimidating in the contents of their letters in an effort to simply scare people into submission. It's very much a case of assumed guilt, prove innocence.

    Bottom line, it's not about owning x, y, or z; it's about whether or not x, y, or z is able (not designed, but able) to receive a broadcast (as in "live") signal. If you can receive that signal, get yourself a license because otherwise you're taking the p1ss.


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