Organ Donation

rednik · 09-07-2013 04:14PM

Thanks to a donor my wife received a kidney last week and all going well will return her dialysis machine and all the kit to the HSE. Thank God for Donors.

09-07-2013 04:15PM

rednik wrote: »

Thanks to a donor my wife received a kidney last week and all going well will return her dialysis machine and all the kit to the HSE. Thank God for Donors.

Congratulations to both of you

Capt'n Midnight · 09-07-2013 04:22PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Art 40.3.1 - the doctrine of unenumerated rights. Constitutional right to bodily integrity was establised in 1965 (Ryan v. AG). If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the arguments invoked by Marie Fleming recently?

Thought that sounded familiar

It's flouride
http://www.supremecourt.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/(WebFiles)/AD23E8418C11E5118025765E0037605A/$FILE/Ryan%20v%20AG_1964.rtf

, That there is no contractual right to a piped water supply. PerKenny J.:â€”"The plaintiff has no legal right to a supply of piped water and the Act of 1960 does not impose any obligation on her or on the members of her family to drink or use the water coming through the piped water supply. . . . the plaintiff probably has a right of access to a supply of water, but this does not give her a right to a supply of water which has not been fluoridated through the piped water supply. . . . I am satisfied that the plaintiff . . . can, by the expenditure of a few pounds, remove all or almost all the fluoride ions from the water coming through the piped water supply."

So we are back to the opt out system because you don't have to accept a medical card. And it costs nothing to opt out.

I stand by what I said. Bodily integrity is a constitutional right, and an opt in system is a violation of that right. Even if thousands were dying, that doesnt change.

So we retain all of our constitutional rights after death ?
seriously that's your argument ?

Surely it would be a wiser investment of energy to run campaigns and actually get people moving on the issue themselves (because I think we are all in agreement that we do need more donors!). For now, we disagree on how those numbers can be increased.

If there was any evidence that such a campaign would reliably make up the numbers then I'd be all for it.

We had 33.5% turnout for the Childrens referendum. If you have any magic way guaranteed to improve on that then you may have a point. In the UK they've reached 30% and 3 people a day are dying because that's still too low.
http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/campaigns/

Currently in the UK:

More than 10,000 people need an organ transplant
Of these, 1000 people - 3 a day - will die before an organ becomes available

While 90% of people in the UK say they support organ donation, to date 30% have joined the the NHS Organ Donor Register

I did hear people mention before that only those who are donors could avail of organs if they needed them - what are the views on that?

Since that's never going to happen my view are that such arguments only serve to waste time. I've already posted that blood donors don't get charged for the blood they use.

Reamer Fanny · 09-07-2013 04:29PM

I'll keep my organs thanks came to this earth whole and will leave it whole, I don't want some doctor poking around inside my chest cavity grabbing what he can.

OldNotWIse · 09-07-2013 04:32PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Thought that sounded familiar

It's flouride
http://www.supremecourt.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/(WebFiles)/AD23E8418C11E5118025765E0037605A/$FILE/Ryan%20v%20AG_1964.rtfSo we are back to the opt out system because you don't have to accept a medical card. And it costs nothing to opt out.

So we retain all of our constitutional rights after death ?
seriously that's your argument ?

If there was any evidence that such a campaign would reliably make up the numbers then I'd be all for it.

We had 33.5% turnout for the Childrens referendum. If you have any magic way guaranteed to improve on that then you may have a point. In the UK they've reached 30% and 3 people a day are dying because that's still too low.
http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/campaigns/

Since that's never going to happen my view are that such arguments only serve to waste time. I've already posted that blood donors don't get charged for the blood they use.

whose post were you reading? Clearly not mine. Did you accidentally hit reply to the wrong one??

Incidentally, you want to use statistics for a shoddily put together childrens referendum to further your organ donation opt in system agenda? Thats your argument?

Also, I am genuinley curious what peoples thoughts are on the "only recieve if you donate" argument, who cares if its not a reality, this is a discussion board ffs - what "time" is being wasted? Are you labouring under the misapprehension that people actually care whats posted here? That it has some influence on what actually happens in this country?

bumper234 · 09-07-2013 04:35PM

justryan wrote: »

I'll keep my organs thanks came to this earth whole and will leave it whole, I don't want some doctor poking around inside my chest cavity grabbing what he can.

What a waste of 30 perfectly good words.

OldNotWIse · 09-07-2013 04:38PM

bumper234 wrote: »

What a waste of 30 perfectly good words.

lol at the irony of this post

bumper234 · 09-07-2013 04:46PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

lol at the irony of this post

Hi kettle this is pot...guess what?

Alun · 09-07-2013 04:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is totally incorrect. Donor cards do absolutely nothing except notify your next of kin of your desire to donate.

Ultimate decision lies with your next of kin.

Which is a ridiculous state of affairs TBH. I'd like a "I want my organs to be used, regardless of whatever any of my relatives say or want, it's none of their business, and anyway I've already told them of my decision, so there!" box to tick.

OldNotWIse · 09-07-2013 04:47PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Hi kettle this is pot...guess what?

this could go on....forever

Are you black too?!

OldNotWIse · 09-07-2013 04:49PM

Alun wrote: »

Which is a ridiculous state of affairs TBH. I'd like a "I want my organs to be used, regardless of whatever any of my relatives say or want, it's none of their business, and anyway I've already told them of my decision, so there!" box to tick.

Is there not one of these? Not being smart but I would have thought if it was your living (and dying) wish to be a donor, that had to be respected?

A side query, not strictly related but just occured to me. How do they do post-mortems on donors? If the organs have to be removed immediately, how is cause of death determined? Or will only organs arising from natural deaths be allowed?

rednik · 09-07-2013 04:55PM

Candie wrote: »

Congratulations to both of you

Cheers Candie.

banie01 · 09-07-2013 05:35PM

When my wife died, we donated her organs.
Not because I thought or even cared about other peoples suffering(at the time)
But because everytime Kate and I saw a programme or a movie where it was an option, she always made it clear to me that if she was ever in that situation that she would want her organs to be donated....
So when she collapsed and I knew she'd never recover, it was an easy choice to make(it was the only ''easy'' choice left to me during that period)
We donated her organs, apart from her corneas because as stupid as it sounds and I know its not in any way a rational or sensible thought....
I never wanted to imagine those eyes, with all they mean to me...
On anyone else.

Now when we donated the organs, I'll be quite honest I didn't care who was helped...
I was losing everything, my future was ripped away and I didn't care if those people she helped died screaming!
I would have given anything for her to be saved, rather than be the one saving.
We received a letter from the transplant coordination team giving a few details of the organs used and people(anonymous) saved....
There were 4 recipients in total...
And we got a card, in with that letter.
From the woman who received Kate's liver, telling us how close to death she was prior to transplant, commiserating with our loss and thanking us for giving her a 2nd chance at life and allowing her to hopefully see her kids grow up.
Reading that card at the time, filled me with a selfish anger!
My wife was gone at 26, never to see our son grow up and this person is getting what I felt we'd been robbed of.....
But now, over 6yrs later its 1 of my most treasured possessions.
It helps me show our son just how great his Mam is....
What a generous and selfless act can mean to people we will never know other than in our imaginations.
Because she saved that woman's family from the loss we experienced, and not just her, 3 other families had their quality of life improved and the pain of loss postponed for hopefully a good while longer.

I think a workable scheme for ensuring donation at a viable level would be a legally binding opt-in scheme.
Rather than opt-out i.e Make the organ donation register a viable option for something other than getting a card.
If a person chooses to register, then legally the choice is made already and the weight of the decision is moved from family(Unlike now)to the donor.
Make the the organ donation box on driving licenses carry the same weight aswell.
Move the decision and the anxiety around it from dealing with next of kin during a tragedy, back to the donor themselves make it the donor's informed and educated choice and roll out education campaigns around this point.
Rather than relying on families to make rational decisions during a traumatic time

Alun · 10-07-2013 11:00AM

Thanks for telling your story there banie01. If, after reading that, anyone on here even considers for one second NOT allowing their organs to be used after their death, then I despair for humanity, I really do.

Regarding the opt-in situation, I lived in the Netherlands before moving here, and they have a central organ donation database where anyone over the age of 12 (yes, 12!) can decide whether they want to donate, not donate, let their immediate family decide, or even let another person (not necessarily a relative) decide.

http://www.donorregister.nl/english/

rednik · 10-07-2013 11:06AM

Alun wrote: »

Thanks for telling your story there banie01. If, after reading that, anyone on here even considers for one second NOT allowing their organs to be used after their death, then I despair for humanity, I really do.

Regarding the opt-in situation, I lived in the Netherlands before moving here, and they have a central organ donation database where anyone over the age of 12 (yes, 12!) can decide whether they want to donate, not donate, let their immediate family decide, or even let another person (not necessarily a relative) decide.

http://www.donorregister.nl/english/

That system should have been here a long time ago.

suicide_circus · 10-07-2013 11:11AM

Lingua Franca wrote: »

How's your face? They're doing face transplants now..

yeah i saw a documentary about this a few years back where John Travolta and Nicholas Cage get their faces transp...actually no that was a movie.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 11:22AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

yeah i saw a documentary about this a few years back where John Travolta and Nicholas Cage get their faces transp...actually no that was a movie.

Welcome back to earth Mork

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health-fitness/richard-norris-the-man-without-a-face-gets-new-life-after-transplant/story-fneuz9ev-1226671727296

Capt'n Midnight · 10-07-2013 11:50AM

Alun wrote: »

Regarding the opt-in situation, I lived in the Netherlands before moving here, and they have a central organ donation database where anyone over the age of 12 (yes, 12!) can decide whether they want to donate, not donate, let their immediate family decide, or even let another person (not necessarily a relative) decide.

http://www.donorregister.nl/english/

Better than 30% but still not good enough

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22785112

Refusal to consent to organ donation is an important cause of the persisting gap between the number of potential organ donors and effectuated donors. In the Netherlands,
...
CONCLUSIONS:

Less than 50% of the potential donors were registered in the national DR. Therefore, the relatives have an important role in the choice for organ donation. The relatives of potential donors who died unexpectedly consented more often to donation than those in whom death was expected.

But this is interesting. We need to educate families too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20083476

his study showed that the maximal number of potential organ donors is about three times higher than the number of effective organ donors. The main reason accounting for approximately 60% of the potential donor losses was the high family refusal rate. The year 2007 showed that a higher percentage of deceased organ donors can be procured from the pool of potential donors. All improvements should focus on decreasing the unacceptably high family refusal rates.

Scrag · 10-07-2013 11:55AM

We are seriously limited to the number of organ transplant operations that can be done in this country. If everyone was an organ donor we could not use them and most of the organs would be dumped anyway.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 11:58AM

Scrag wrote: »

We are seriously limited to the number of organ transplant operations that can be done in this country. If everyone was an organ donor we could not use them and most of the organs would be dumped anyway.

Why?

Not every organ donated goes to an Irish person you know. There is a database and my kidney may not match someone in Ireland but may match someone in the UK or France. The kidney will be flown there and transplanted.

Sky King · 10-07-2013 12:19PM

Dey tuk our organs!

Lingua Franca · 10-07-2013 12:21PM

That brought me to tears, banie01. I'm so sorry you lost your brave wife. I'm glad that her giving life and hope to others brings you comfort.

And thank you for the link, Alun. I live in the Netherlands now and am going to sign that register right now, and talk to my children to see if they want to do the same. Some of my own story is a few pages back, so it's a subject close to our hearts.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-07-2013 12:31PM

No, nobody would want my organs. When I die even my eyes will be jaundiced

Capt'n Midnight · 10-07-2013 12:40PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

No, nobody would want my organs. When I die even my eyes will be jaundiced

They can still be used for experimentation. And that might save them wasting a transplantable organ

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-07-2013 01:24PM

All joking aside though, I'd be of the opinion once I'm dead sure what do I want with my heart/liver whatever else. If it was any use to another person then why shouldn't they get them, in fairness.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 01:50PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

All joking aside though, I'd be of the opinion once I'm dead sure what do I want with my heart/liver whatever else. If it was any use to another person then why shouldn't they get them, in fairness.

I am of this opinion and i have even said they can take the lump of meat that is my dead body and use it for medical science. But i also see other peoples views on why the body is sacred whether it's just wishing to have a relative buried "whole" to believing it was the vessel for an eternal soul.

Gannicus · 14-07-2013 11:09AM

Flicking through the TV stations and I came a across a debate on BBC1 about organ donations. I saw how there is a system in Wales where your organs are automatically donated unless when you are healthy, you sign something to opt out when you are alive and the donors family cannot contest it with the NHS if you haven't opted out before dying

I was thinking, there should be something in Ireland making it mandatory for everyone that if you died and your organs are viable then they are automatically donated to somebody who is alive and in need of them, with no interference from your family.

kylith · 14-07-2013 11:11AM

I would be happy with an opt-out system instead of the current opt-in one.

kneemos · 14-07-2013 11:13AM

Big Steve wrote: »

Flicking through the TV stations and I came a across a debate on BBC1 about organ donations. I saw how there is a system in Wales where your organs are automatically donated unless when you are healthy, you sign something to opt out when you are alive and the donors family cannot contest it with the NHS if you haven't opted out before dying

I was thinking, there should be something in Ireland making it mandatory for everyone that if you died and your organs are viable then they are automatically donated to somebody who is alive and in need of them, with no interference from your family.

There must still be an opt in to the scheme.

Mint Sauce · 14-07-2013 11:14AM

Big Steve wrote: »

Flicking through the TV stations and I came a across a debate on BBC1 about organ donations. I saw how there is a system in Wales where your organs are automatically donated unless when you are healthy, you sign something to opt out when you are alive and the donors family cannot contest it with the NHS if you haven't opted out before dying

I was thinking, there should be something in Ireland making it mandatory for everyone that if you died and your organs are viable then they are automatically donated to somebody who is alive and in need of them, with no interference from your family.

Would quite happily go for something like that here. Even if you do have a donor card or the back of your licence signed, you still need your families permission in the event of your death.

An opt out really does make more sense.

Organ Donation

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