Organ Donation

I'm undecided if its for me. I'm fairly pickled now

I definitely think it should be opt in.

Opt out is a violation of the constitutional right to bodily integrity. We should not have to take any positive action in order to assert such a right.

I wouldnt like if Trocaire decided to take money from my ac every week, placing an onus on me to go to the bank and fill out forms to opt out of paying.

That said, numbers should be higher. More needs to be done to encourage people to donate, but an opt out system is not the way to go imo.

One thing that does freak me out (and I know its necessary for prompt harvest) is how those harvesting are so...well...prompt. They just remind me of vultures or something. I know thats horrible but like, if someone you love is dying do you really want people hovering around with forms etc waiting for their bit?

When i am gone they can take what they want. I would even give permission to use my face in a face transplant (am no Brad Pitt but not too ugly either:D) Have also instructed everyone close to me that the are in no way to impede the harvesting of my body parts.

FFS i will be dead so it's not like it will bother me and i will be cremated. Why burn perfectly good parts that could help others to live long lives. Personally think that non donors are selfish (my personal opinion and not looking for a fight:))

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Opt in means you are comfortable with people dying or living donors putting their lives at risk, because you are too lazy to tick a box once when.

Simplest way is to add this to the health services card / medical card renewals. Your family would still get asked. The way it works for blood donors is that they don't get charged if they use blood later on. Perhaps something similar ?


Also remember in most cases a transplant is cheaper than on-going treatment, never mind the quality of life.

The alternative is that if we were to double the number of live donors all it would do is stop the transplant list getting longer. (and you'd have a live donor die or suffer major problems every few years because surgery does carry risks)


There simply aren't enough donors to go around. ~650 people on the waiting list so I'd guess the numbers of preventable deaths per annum are more than any improvements from the RSA could produce.



http://www.organdonation.ie/facts.html[/QUOTE]

Nothing lazy about it at all. Its the principle of it. As I already stated, bodily integrity is a constitutionally protected right. An opt in system violates this.

If one feels strongly enough about donation they too simply have to tick a box. Unless they too are "too lazy to do so" - but thats hardly justification for a system that requires positive action in order to benefit from a constitutionally enshrined human right.

Gbear wrote: »

I don't think that bodily integrity should count if you're dead.

I think it should be mandatory. It's utter infantile bollocks to want to hold on to organs after you're dead.

But it does. Look at the scandal of the baby organ retention. Would you accuse the grieving parents of "infantile bollocks" for being devastated that their babies organs were harvested and retained without the parents consent? The babies were dead, so by your logic, who gives a fuuck?

I am not arguing against donation. I am arguing against the opt in system. Like I already said, if you feel that strongly about it, opt in.

when i die they can take what they want and thow me in a ditch for all i care.

On a serious note, just think if you did donate you could save a life or three.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You are missing the point.

An opt in system means that hundreds of people will continue to die.


IF we had a system where there were enough people opting in then you might have a point. Until then you are asking for other people to be sacrificed to appease your concerns.


unconstitutionality - you keep using that word - care to point out where in the constitution these right are ??
https://www.constitution.ie/Documents/Bhunreacht_na_hEireann_web.pdf

and just a reminder getting a health card is an Opt-In anyway
and you can't use everyman arguments because things like death and taxation are inevitable

Art 40.3.1 - the doctrine of unenumerated rights. Constitutional right to bodily integrity was establised in 1965 (Ryan v. AG). If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the arguments invoked by Marie Fleming recently?

It's not a matter of just downloading the Constitution and hitting ctrl F and searching for "bodily integrity" (which is what I assume you did).

I stand by what I said. Bodily integrity is a constitutional right, and an opt in system is a violation of that right. Even if thousands were dying, that doesnt change. You can talk about sacrifice and use emotive arguments all you want but that doesnt actually strengthen your argument (for an opt in system, of course it strengthens your argument for donation in general, but thats not the issue here).

People were p1ssed a while ago when an out of date search warrant meant that a certain judge could not be charged with certain offences. But, there exists a constitutional right ot due process, and evidence obtained without a valid warrant violates that right. You cannot simply change or override a right because people are dying or you dont agree with it or you think certain cross sections of society are lazy or whatever other argument you choose to throw out there.

Surely it would be a wiser investment of energy to run campaigns and actually get people moving on the issue themselves (because I think we are all in agreement that we do need more donors!). For now, we disagree on how those numbers can be increased.

I did hear people mention before that only those who are donors could avail of organs if they needed them - what are the views on that?

bumper234 wrote: »

Ah but if you don't have your heart when you present yourself to St Peter at the heavens gates then you can't get in and this would make the baby Jesus cry bejeepers and begohrahh to be sure for sure:mad:

If god is up there and he turns me away for giving my heart away to save someone else, he can go **** himself and I will hang in hell knowing that someone else gets to live for a while longer.