Edward Snowden applies for asylum in Ireland

Bullseye1 · 02-07-2013 1:46pm #1

According to RTE he has sought asylum here. It seems to me he was doing the right thing whistle blowing on this issue. Should we give him asylum?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0702/460034-edward-snowden/

Sir Gallagher · 02-07-2013 1:48pm

We'd be best off steering clear of that carry-on altogether.

I am pie · 02-07-2013 1:50pm

Applied in almost every country going, complete non-story.

frag420 · 02-07-2013 1:52pm

I think when he sees the state of Mosney he will take back his application...

Manach · 02-07-2013 1:56pm

Yes. Should he touch down in Shannon and claim asylum, he must be accorded the same due process as any other and we cannot be seen to be swayed by this for fear of the economic backlash cost from the US. In a recent speech our Justice minister berated historic Irish governments for refusing such in the past. To do so in this case would be logically inconstant over this clear political claim.

bgrizzley · 02-07-2013 2:04pm

We should, but it seems moral fibre has been replace by fear and greed. If Sn0wd3n knows whats good for him he will stay well away from here, lest he end up going through Shannon blindfolded in a cargo hold...

02-07-2013 5:19pm

Aye. Keep away, Snowden.

dublinbhoy88 · 02-07-2013 7:47pm

Manach wrote: »

Yes. Should he touch down in Shannon and claim asylum, he must be accorded the same due process as any other and we cannot be seen to be swayed by this for fear of the economic backlash cost from the US. In a recent speech our Justice minister berated historic Irish governments for refusing such in the past. To do so in this case would be logically inconstant over this clear political claim.

you will find uncle sam will spit on irish law in this case if Snowden was allowed to stay here.

Cookie_Monster · 02-07-2013 8:51pm

Manach wrote: »

Yes. Should he touch down in Shannon and claim asylum, he must be accorded the same due process as any other and we cannot be seen to be swayed by this for fear of the economic backlash cost from the US. In a recent speech our Justice minister berated historic Irish governments for refusing such in the past. To do so in this case would be logically inconstant over this clear political claim.

Of course we can. One person, regardless of who they are, is not worth shooting ourselves in the foot economically.

Bill G · 03-07-2013 8:38am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Of course we can. One person, regardless of who they are, is not worth shooting ourselves in the foot economically.

What a weak show of character for the Irish nation. "Free Mandela! Free Gaza!" etc...... but if it is going to impact me directly, then just keep quiet about it.

So are you saying if South Africa had had economic sway over us, we should of just kept quiet about Mandela's imprisonment since it might of affected us directly?

03-07-2013 8:41am

People in this country blow a lot of hot air.

"Good on him, more people need to show this type of courage".

"I support Snowden".

"About time someone showed the US the two fingers, we need more like him".

"What, he wants to come here? **** him".

Conmaicne Mara · 03-07-2013 10:09am

Deleted User wrote: »

People in this country blow a lot of hot air.

"Good on him, more people need to show this type of courage".

"I support Snowden".

"About time someone showed the US the two fingers, we need more like him".

"What, he wants to come here? **** him".

It would be illogical for Ireland and for Snowden for him to arrive here. Ireland relies on a LOT of US investment for our economy, such as it is, to function. Uncle Sam's reach and memory are both far.

Snowden would likely be denied asylum if he arrived here, in fact if Irish authorities knew he was coming they'd likely try to stop him.

There are lots of countries much less friendly and much more distant in relations to the USA that are flip flopping about him. I see no reason why we should get involved in such a mess.

I also think people are foolish if they thought the US doesn't spy on it's friends as well as it's enemies. It's equally foolish to think the EU and it's constituent countries don't spy on the US, each other, and third parties.

Lesson 101, how the world works.

Kold · 03-07-2013 10:12am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People in this country blow a lot of hot air.

"Good on him, more people need to show this type of courage".

"I support Snowden".

"About time someone showed the US the two fingers, we need more like him".

"What, he wants to come here? **** him".

That's not really the sentiment. Most people just think that it would not be wise for him to come here due to the moral integrity of our government.

Bill G · 03-07-2013 10:38am

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I also think people are foolish if they thought the US doesn't spy on it's friends as well as it's enemies. It's equally foolish to think the EU and it's constituent countries don't spy on the US, each other, and third parties.

Whether or not it is common knowledge that countries illegally spy on each other is irrelevant to the arguement that Snowden should be granted asylum in Ireland.

nucker · 03-07-2013 11:11am

All Snowden has done is blown the whistle of what the NSA/GCHQ was doing to data communications, and it is illegal, they know it. Just imagine if the British government were the only one after him? Do you think that most would laugh at the Brits and take a blind bit of notice of the hot air spouted by Cameron and co.? Of course they would. I think every other countries should make a bold stand against the US for the aggressive tactics against Snowden.

It's not as if secret agents cover is going to be blown over this. It would be understandable that if their cover were about to be blown. All he has said is that there is snooping going on via data communications network (Internet) which is illegal, and their excuse as to fight terrorism and organised crime is just silly

America needs to stop warmongering being paranoid over certain things. If they want to make friends in the Middle East and get most of the Islamic countries to end their hostilities, then they need to take a neutral stance in the Israeli-Arab conflict, rather than just side with Israel, and try make them both agree on the two states over Israel and Palestine. Yeah I know there are certain things that the Palestinians want back, yeah I know it won't stop terrorism overnight, but it would make terrorism less palatable to others

laoch na mona · 03-07-2013 1:35pm

seen how we treat asylum seekers I'd say he dodged the bullet by us not letting him in

Nodin · 03-07-2013 1:50pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

seen how we treat asylum seekers I'd say he dodged the bullet by us not letting him in

It has to be said that the lack of Western states willing to take him in is somewhat sickening.

Conmaicne Mara · 03-07-2013 1:56pm

Bill G wrote: »

Whether or not it is common knowledge that countries illegally spy on each other is irrelevant to the arguement that Snowden should be granted asylum in Ireland.

And?

I never said it was relevant to asylum in Ireland, I would have said so if I thought so.

jmayo · 03-07-2013 1:59pm

bgrizzley wrote: »

We should, but it seems moral fibre has been replace by fear and greed. If Sn0wd3n knows whats good for him he will stay well away from here, lest he end up going through Shannon blindfolded in a cargo hold...

You do know they may be tracking for that as well as the correct spelling

I actually agree with your paranoia.
The fact that it looks like they tried to intercept a presidential flight, belonging to a country that might grant him asylum, in case he was on it says how desperate they are to get him back.
It also illustrates how they are now throwing their weight around.
What if the Austrians had found him on baord the aircraft they supposedly did or did not search ?
Would they have removed him and handed him over ?

Also it now seems Europe and most others have capitulated and everyones privacy can be sacrificed at the altar of the american desire to police the world.

BTW if you look back at my previous posts around here I would not have been one of the anti US grouping, but the recent trends and revelations just reinforce the dangerous path that the country started with GWB has not altered one whit with the arrival of the great black hope himself.

laoch na mona · 03-07-2013 1:59pm

Nodin wrote: »

It has to be said that the lack of Western states willing to take him in is somewhat sickening.

ya its bad when only Bolivia and Venezuela stand up for international justice

Permabear · 03-07-2013 4:28pm

This post has been deleted.

Bill G · 03-07-2013 4:48pm

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

And?

I never said it was relevant to asylum in Ireland, I would have said so if I thought so.

So in a discussion about asylum in Ireland you are putting in random information that is not relevant to asylum in Ireland. Ok.

Conmaicne Mara · 03-07-2013 5:08pm

Bill G wrote: »

So in a discussion about asylum in Ireland you are putting in random information that is not relevant to asylum in Ireland. Ok.

:rolleyes:

You're being anal for the sake of it.

jmayo · 03-07-2013 5:13pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sorry I guess I should have clarified that about the government and the arms of state.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I thik there is an ice cream that could be used to describe him.
He may be a different skin colour, but he is just another politican.
He is just better presented, a better talker and more palatable than bush.
I think people are finally copping on that little has changed behind the scenes.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No Western country will stand up to them and it isn't just the ayslum issue.
Look how the US immediately said they would use dimplomatic channels to discuss fact they were exposed for bugging their allies.
Basically that is another way of saying we will get our ambassadors to waffle something inane like a half hearted apology to any government or EU institution that complains.
And besides shure aren't the EU and it's constituent governments just blowing off some steam and they aint going to rock the boat.
Then it will be business as usual.

SeanW · 03-07-2013 9:14pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

seen how we treat asylum seekers I'd say he dodged the bullet by us not letting him in

We treat asylum seekers so badly ... that's why we don't get any? :rolleyes:

Karl Stein · 03-07-2013 10:33pm

jmayo wrote: »

I thik there is an ice cream that could be used to describe him.
He may be a different skin colour, but he is just another politican.
He is just better presented, a better talker and more palatable than bush.
I think people are finally copping on that little has changed behind the scenes.

A grand exercise in rebranding America.

Incidentally...

Sen. Barack Obama has shown he's already won over the nation's brand builders. He's been named Advertising Age's marketer of the year for 2008.

Mr. Obama won the vote of hundreds of marketers, agency heads and marketing-services vendors gathered here at the Association of National Advertisers' annual conference. He edged out runners-up Apple and Zappos.com.

adage.com/obama-wins-ad-age-s-marketer-year

hatrickpatrick · 04-07-2013 3:17am

I would be honoured and proud to have Snowden take refuge in Ireland, but I also hope he doesn't do it. Why? Because our government has, time and again, proven completely and utterly spineless when it comes to dealing with the US. The fact that our airports were used to facilitate an entirely unjustified war and the abduction and torture of civilians in contravention of just about every single human rights charter in Western society says it all. :mad:

To sum up: I wish I could say I'd like to see Snowden take refuge here, but he'd be signing his own death warrant if he did.

hatrickpatrick · 04-07-2013 3:19am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

WTF... I think this might be the first time I've ever read one of your posts and literally agreed enthusiastically with every single word of it. :eek:

RichardAnd · 04-07-2013 6:25am

bgrizzley wrote: »

We should, but it seems moral fibre has been replace by fear and greed. If Sn0wd3n knows whats good for him he will stay well away from here, lest he end up going through Shannon blindfolded in a cargo hold...

My sentiments exactly. If he were to come here, I wouldn't be surprised if he were to be shipped to the US on the basis of a very loose and jaded suggestion that his being here might "upset the markets"...

There's nothing for Snowden here, unless he's seeking an obsequious government or a cynical and meek population.

Dannyboy83 · 04-07-2013 10:01am

We're too spineless to give him asylum, so maybe we could refuse US extradition by prosecuting him under our blasphemy law... life sentence.

jmayo · 04-07-2013 10:43am

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

We're too spineless to give him asylum, so maybe we could refuse US extradition by prosecuting him under our blasphemy law... life sentence.

Before we all start beating ourselves and our government up about being spineless, can anyone point to a western government and/or EU one that is willing to offer him asylum or even save passage ?

As laoch na mona very appropriately said above, it looks like some Latin American states are now the few that stands up to the US administration.

Dannyboy83 · 04-07-2013 1:10pm

jmayo wrote: »

Before we all start beating ourselves and our government up about being spineless, can anyone point to a western government and/or EU one that is willing to offer him asylum or even safe passage ?

As laoch na mona very appropriately said above, it looks like some Latin American states are now the few that stands up to the US administration.

You're right.

Oddly the European states are standing up to the US in terms of kicking up a fuss about being spied on,
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/europe-demands-answers-on-claims-of-us-spying-1.1448346

but not standing up for the whistleblower who is the reason they know they've been spied on.

I wouldn't have been satisfied until I got a dig in about that blasphemy law tho

zom · 07-07-2013 10:35pm

jmayo wrote: »

Before we all start beating ourselves and our government up about being spineless, can anyone point to a western government and/or EU one that is willing to offer him asylum or even save passage ?

It's not giving absolution to anyone if everyone else doing wrong. Judge itself, not the others.

michael999999 · 07-07-2013 10:39pm

Lets swap him for David drumm!

clairefontaine · 08-07-2013 5:03am

Snowden is a patriot. Unfortunately hopey changey sees him as a traitor. Euriope are a bunch of obamabots who fell for hopey changey. Snowden will remain stateless. Ireland will never ever offer him a space for his banishment.

meglome · 08-07-2013 6:02pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0708/461286-edward-snowden/

Judge refuses to grant provisional extradition warrant for Edward Snowden

Mr Justice Colm Mac Eochaidh refused the application this weekend, saying the grounds were too general.

In his judgment he wrote that: "an extradition request is required to state as accurately as possible the time and place of commission of the alleged offence or offences".

He went on to write that: "My conclusion in this matter is that the request made on 5th July 2013 by the United States of America through its Embassy in Dublin fails to indicate the place where any of the offences took place.

"Therefore, I am compelled to refuse the application by the United States of America for a provisional Arrest Warrant in respect of Mr Edward J Snowden."

carpejugulum · 08-07-2013 7:27pm

meglome wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0708/461286-edward-snowden/

What does that mean in practice?

renegademaster · 09-07-2013 12:37am

carpejugulum wrote: »

What does that mean in practice?

SFA

http://www.shannonwatch.org/cables

Wikileaks Cables
The following is a list of Wikileaks cables from the US embassy in Dublin which relate to the CIA and US military use of Shannon.

Click on cable title for a summary and link to the full text. If you want to list all the cables relating to a particular tag, click on the tag.

Title Subject Cable Date Tags
09DUBLIN417 YOUR OCTOBER 11 VISIT TO IRELAND 4 Oct 2009 Irish politicians, rendition, searching planes
09DUBLIN45 IRISH GOVERNMENT'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS FOREIGN INVESTMENT 30 Jan 2009 lawful excuse, Mary Kelly, Pitstop Ploughshares
08DUBLIN662 SCENESETTER FOR VISIT OF CODEL DODD TO IRELAND 7 Dec 2008 rendition, Shannon
08DUBLIN616 SCENESETTER FOR VISIT OF DEPUTY SECRETARY NEGROPONTE TO IRELAND 12 Nov 2008 rendition, Shannon
08DUBLIN609 SCENESETTER FOR VISIT OF CODEL LEAHY TO IRELAND 6 Nov 2008 rendition, Shannon
08DUBLIN603 IRISH ESTABLISH CABINET COMMITTEE TO REVIEW RENDITIONS ALLEGATIONS AND OTHER HUMAN RIGHTS CONCERNS 4 Nov 2008 rendition
08DUBLIN602 IRISH ESTABLISH CABINET COMMITTEE TO REVIEW RENDITIONS ALLEGATIONS AND OTHER HUMAN RIGHTS CONCERNS 3 Nov 2008 rendition, searching planes
08DUBLIN567 IRISH POLITICAL DIRECTOR ON REVIEW OF U.S.-IRISH RELATIONS, AFGHANISTAN, IRAN AND RENDITIONS 15 Oct 2008 rendition
08DUBLIN306 FOREIGN AFFAIRS TOUR D'HORIZON WITH IRISH MINISTER OF DEFENSE 28 May 2008 Shannon
08DUBLIN289 SCENESETTER FOR VISIT OF CODEL LEAHY TO IRELAND 21 May 2008 public opinion, rendition
08DUBLIN248 BRIAN COWEN POISED TO BECOME PRIME MINISTER OF IRELAND 7 May 2008 Shannon
08DUBLIN192 SCENESETTER FOR IRISH PRIME MINISTER'S ADDRESS TO CONGRESS 11 Apr 2008 Irish politicians, public opinion, rendition
08DUBLIN166 IRISH PRIME MINISTER AHERN TO RESIGN MAY 6; NO CHANGE ANTICIPATED IN U.S.-IRISH BILATERAL RELATIONS 2 Apr 2008 Shannon
07DUBLIN916 TOUR D'HORIZON WITH IRISH FOREIGN MINISTER 20 Dec 2007 public opinion, rendition, searching planes, Shannon
07DUBLIN899 PRIME MINISTER DISMISSES IHRC CALL FOR INSPECTION OF U.S. AIRCRAFT 13 Dec 2007 public opinion, rendition, searching planes
07DUBLIN888 SECRETARY CHERTOFF'S TRIP TO IRELAND 10 Dec 2007 public opinion, rendition, searching planes, Shannon
07DUBLIN748 SCENESETTER FOR FOREIGN MINISTER DERMOT AHERN'S MEETING WITH THE SECRETARY ON OCTOBER 3 27 Sep 2007 Shannon
07DUBLIN286 SCENE-SETTER FOR THE APRIL 19-20 VISIT OF EUR PDAS KURT VOLKER 13 Apr 2007 Shannon
07DUBLIN191 SCENE-SETTER FOR PRIME MINISTER BERTIE AHERN'S ST. PATRICK'S DAY VISIT 8 Mar 2007 rendition
07DUBLIN898 IRISH GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO REPORT ON "EXTRAORDINARY RENDITIONS" 12 Feb 2007 rendition
06DUBLIN1284 THE AMBASSADOR AND FOREIGN MINISTER DISCUSS SHANNON, NORTHERN IRELAND 3 Nov 2006 lawful excuse, munitions, Pitstop Ploughshares, public opinion, rendition, Shannon
06DUBLIN1078 GOI OPEN TO INFORMATION EXCHANGE ON SHANNON MILAIR TRANSITS 15 Sep 2006 Israel, munitions, public opinion, Shannon
06DUBLIN1020 EMERGING CONSTRAINTS ON U.S. MILITARY TRANSITS AT SHANNON 5 Sep 2006 Irish media, Israel, munitions, Pitstop Ploughshares, public opinion, rendition, Shannon
06DUBLIN891 SHANNON FIVE FOUND NOT GUILTY 29 Jul 2006 Irish media, Irish politicians, lawful excuse, Pitstop Ploughshares
06DUBLIN795 JUNE 11 SHANNON AIRPORT INCIDENT REPORT DELIVERED 6 Jul 2006 Shannon
1 2 next ›

09-07-2013 12:38am

michael999999 wrote: »

Lets swap him for David drumm!

A criminal for an integrity rich patriot?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-07-2013 4:10pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn;t he have to be on irish soil (even an embassy) before he can apply for assylum?

Amirani · 01-08-2013 12:49pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn;t he have to be on irish soil (even an embassy) before he can apply for assylum?

Yes, that was what was said to him.

Edward Snowden applies for asylum in Ireland

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