Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

ThisRegard · 30-06-2013 10:41PM

bilston wrote: »

The Lions are following one of the the most limited gameplans I've ever seen. I would call it Kidneyesque but that would be doing him a disservice..

Peter Reilly in today's Times pretty much says that.

subfreq · 30-06-2013 10:42PM

From an Australian perspective what is ominous is that BOD is yet to stamp his moment in this series. Regardless of poor service, tactics or even logic he always finds a way. If he is captain next week you can almost put money on him putting in another Roy Of The Rovers shift and scoring a 1 metre scurry over try to settle this series.

Rightwing · 30-06-2013 10:45PM

subfreq wrote: »

From an Australian perspective what is ominous is that BOD is yet to stamp his moment in this series. Regardless of poor service, tactics or even logic he always finds a way. If he is captain next week you can almost put money on him putting in another Roy Of The Rovers shift and scoring from a 1 metre scurry over try to settle this series.

Only problem is, we'll have to get into the Aussie 22 for that to happen.

danthefan · 30-06-2013 10:48PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Only problem is, we'll have to get into the Aussie 22 for that to happen.

We could try kicking it down there?

shuffol · 30-06-2013 10:53PM

In the last attack of the game BOD showed amazing feet to get the Lions going forward in the first phase after the Aussies were pinged for holding on(SOB with the turnover btw).

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 30-06-2013 10:55PM

shuffol wrote: »

In the last attack of the game BOD showed amazing feet to get the Lions going forward in the first phase after the Aussies were pinged for holding on(SOB with the turnover btw).

One of the few times the Lions spread the ball wide and Sexton stood flat too. Coincidence? I think not

Tox56 · 30-06-2013 10:56PM

danthefan wrote: »

We could try kicking it down there?

Get this man to Australia

SlickRic · 30-06-2013 11:00PM

Sort out the set pieces, sort out inside centre, then build more than 4 phases, and the Lions will be fine.

The back line has had fúck all to work with because of a flimsy set piece and no "crash ball" option that Gatland so loves at 12.

Just thinking too, the lack of "crash ball" options in the last 2 Tests makes Gatland's reluctance to play SOB all the more odd.

Tox56 · 30-06-2013 11:09PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

One of the few times the Lions spread the ball wide and Sexton stood flat too. Coincidence? I think not

I just don't understand all the up and unders, he's a player with such attacking instinct. I remember the away game in Clermont, we had a very kickable penalty to get level I think (it was very tight anyway) and he went for the insanely high risk cross field kick for the try, very few players would have the balls to do that given the match situation and surroundings. It's a lower level obviously but you can see the license he has to try things at Leinster, I hope Gatland/Howley or whoever gives him the same freedom on Sat

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 30-06-2013 11:15PM

Tox56 wrote: »

I just don't understand all the up and unders, he's a player with such attacking instinct. I remember the away game in Clermont, we had a very kickable penalty to get level I think (it was very tight anyway) and he went for the insanely high risk cross field kick for the try, very few players would have the balls to do that given the match situation and surroundings. It's a lower level obviously but you can see the license he has to try things at Leinster, I hope Gatland/Howley or whoever gives him the same freedom on Sat

I actually don't mind the up and unders, they Australians are not dealing with them at all but it's kind of gone under the radar because the Lions aren't able to take advantage of them because when one of them does come off the back play isn't good enough

Don't want to pimp my own posts but in the match thread I go indepth on the problems the Lions have taking advantage of the up and unders

Howjoe1 · 30-06-2013 11:21PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Anyone saying BOD is limited in attack, that's fair enough, it's an opinion, but certainly not one that can be justified on the basis of those two tests. Do people expect him to rip the ball off Sexton when he goes for his umpteenth Garryowen or something?

given Gatland's tactics, a few English friends suggest Gatland woulld be better starting Farrell (although acknowledging Sexton is the better player).

What should I counter with?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 30-06-2013 11:26PM

Howjoe1 wrote: »

given Gatland's tactics, a few English friends suggest Gatland woulld be better starting Farrell (although acknowledging Sexton is the better player).

What should I counter with?

That Sexton doesn't everything that Farrell does better really. Just because Farrell is used to playing this kind of limited style rugby doesn't mean he's any better at it than Sexton.

For example, the garryowen seems to be the cornerstone of Gatlants attacking play. It's something Sexton does brilliantly, and an area of Farrell's game that's not that strong. He put in some awfully aimless kicks in the warm ups

sydthebeat · 01-07-2013 12:40AM

Jesus, I leave for so few hours and the thread turns to ****e....

Any one arguing that bod hasn't been our best 13 needs to have their head examined. Yes davies is probably very unlucky to have found himself in the position to have to play two games at 12 but even then bod had done any if the good 12 work himself. If davies was all able at 13 he would have covered aac line for the try on saturday.

Roberts needs to be fit enough to start in saturday four the lions to have any chance.
A proper 12, proper 13, decent 9, and an attacking back row and thee lions should win the series.... I don't think we will get that unfortunately.

twinytwo · 01-07-2013 12:59AM

Tobyglen wrote: »

Remove the green tinted glasses. Davies put in by far the best performance at 13 on this tour. He's asked to play at 12 and it just hasn't worked.

In regards BOD, he's still a fantastic defender, very good at breakdown (unfairly penalised in the 1st test) but in regards attack he has been a busted flush against the top teams internationally for 3 years (Wales game in 6 nations aside). He can produce occasional moments of brilliance but his pace is gone. At 13 you need a guy who can take a player on the outside and who offers a threat with the ball in hand.

It might be hard to fathom considering he's the greatest back this country has ever produced but time has caught up with him.

davies cant even stop over running the ball and you want to play him 13?

Partner BOD with an acutal 12... ie roberts and watch how the game changes.

Davies is not a 12... this coupled with what is quite frankly a retarded game plan means the lions backs dont ever get going.

wonderfullife · 01-07-2013 02:22AM

Are you all taking trippy pills tonight? It is sunday i guess.

Brian O' Driscoll (i shall address him by his full name lol) has been nothing short of outstanding in defence and to the cause this Tour. And when given good service outside a big 12 he has been brilliant in attack too.

Yes he has made some mistakes, yes he has looked slightly inept outside JD. But the support lines he ran all Tour have been phenomenal. The try when Tuilagi slipped him in was a Master at work, the offload and backed it up.

If the DOC or Manu play 12 this week you can bet your house BOD will show up big in attack as well as his usual defence. He's a legend, a big time player and far and away our best 13. People have short memories he was a contender for MOTM in 2 of the warm up games and put in monumental shifts in defence both Tests.

Anyway, question: How many times has this clip been posted across the forum? Answer: It can never be posted enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVgc2JVNGaE

GiftofGab · 01-07-2013 04:45AM

Roberts and Corbs back fit for Saturday.

Horwill looks likely that he could be banned for his stamping in the 1st test.

Could be a massive swing in the Lions favour.

On another note the Australian papers are full of stories like this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/rugby/james-horwill-needs-your-support-as-he-faces-the-most-ludicrous-hearing-in-rugby-history/story-fnibc972-1226672476288

James Horwill needs your support as he faces the most ludicrous hearing in rugby history

Another news article has:

Join the campaign to help James Horwill beat a stomping charge for a second time #JusticeforHorwill

The Aussie · 01-07-2013 06:18AM

GiftofGab wrote: »

On another note the Australian papers are full of stories like this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/rugby/james-horwill-needs-your-support-as-he-faces-the-most-ludicrous-hearing-in-rugby-history/story-fnibc972-1226672476288

Well in fairness it is starting to look like a IRB hatchet job, they did not like the decision of a Queens Council from New Zealand the first time so they are flying in one from Canada to give them the decision they want.

Has the IRB appealed a decision in the past?
I can't remember anything like it.

toomevara · 01-07-2013 07:41AM

Warburton out. Interesting...new captain required...

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 07:42AM

The Aussie wrote: »

Well in fairness it is starting to look like a IRB hatchet job, they did not like the decision of a Queens Council from New Zealand the first time so they are flying in one from Canada to give them the decision they want.

Has the IRB appealed a decision in the past?
I can't remember anything like it.

Not starting to look like..it IS a hatchet job. Bit like those people's courts back in the day. The QC has no doubt been hand-picked to get the result the IRB wants. He's apparently British Canadian, whatever that means. Leaving the actual matter aside, the whole thing annoys me, it would be interesting to know which officials in the IRB are actually behind this.

Edit: What I think will happen - he won't be found guilty of deliberately stamping, that would make even more of a mockery of the initial hearing, he will be found guilty of accidental reckless play, and given......a surprising 1 week ban.

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 07:43AM

toomevara wrote: »

Warburton out. Interesting...new captain required...

The only options are BOD or AWJ I would have thought. I guess Heaslip has captained at high levels too.

.ak · 01-07-2013 07:51AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

The only options are BOD or AWJ I would have thought. I guess Heaslip has captained at high levels too.

I reckon BOD, as he became captain when Sam went off the field on Saturday. AWJ would be fine too.

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 07:53AM

.ak wrote: »

I reckon BOD, as he became captain when Sam went off the field on Saturday. AWJ would be fine too.

I think BOD too - I mean more than any other player he has something to play for, this being his last shot at glory after the last 3 tours.

toomevara · 01-07-2013 07:55AM

The Aussie wrote: »

Well in fairness it is starting to look like a IRB hatchet job, they did not like the decision of a Queens Council from New Zealand the first time so they are flying in one from Canada to give them the decision they want.

Has the IRB appealed a decision in the past?
I can't remember anything like it.

I'll be honest, in my opinion Horwill was guilty as Jimmy Saville at Butlin's of a bank-holiday weekend BUT the original decision should have been the end of the matter. This kind of thing sets a dangerous precedent for future citings. Ironically Horwill has been a superb captain and his decision to go for a scrum at the end of T2 as opposed to the conservative NH approach (which would have demanded a 3 pointer) was the series turning point...If the second committee axes him, it will be a major loss to the wallabies....

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 08:05AM

toomevara wrote: »

I'll be honest, in my opinion Horwill was guilty as Jimmy Saville at Butlin's of a bank-holiday weekend BUT the original decision should have been the end of the matter. This kind of thing sets a dangerous precedent for future citings. Ironically Horwill has been a superb captain and his decision to go for a scrum at the end of T2 as opposed to the conservative NH approach (which would have demanded a 3 pointer) was the series turning point...If the second committee axes him, it will be a major loss to the wallabies....

This is what I think too, in the sense that regardless of whether you agree (I do) or don't agree (you) with the original decision, the IRB coming out publicly and stating the QC was incompetent (with a hint of suggesting corrupt) and that hello we'll order a new trial really does set a precedent. From a Lions point of view it could well backfire, as the Aussies might "do it for Kev" and really come out firing on Saturday.

toomevara · 01-07-2013 08:15AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

From a Lions point of view it could well backfire, as the Aussies might "do it for Kev" and really come out firing on Saturday.

No question, perhaps the second inquiry will back the original decision perhaps not..but there's no doubt that if it goes against the Aussies it'll be grist to their mill. An Aussie team coming out fighting in Sydney is bad enough, but give 'em a martyr complex as well and hell, who knows what'll happen

Interestingly given the debate/hoopla around the Lions captaincy and whether in the modern game captaincy matters or not etc..etc... Horwill has provided an object lesson in the difference and effective, ballsy, focused captain can make to a team...

fitz · 01-07-2013 08:16AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

This is what I think too, in the sense that regardless of whether you agree (I do) or don't agree (you) with the original decision, the IRB coming out publicly and stating the QC was incompetent (with a hint of suggesting corrupt) and that hello we'll order a new trial really does set a precedent. From a Lions point of view it could well backfire, as the Aussies might "do it for Kev" and really come out firing on Saturday.

I think it's a precedent that needs to be set.
Too often we see dubious decisions that border on incompetence.
If the IRB believe the QC didn't do the job right, why not appeal it?

I'm fed up with citing decisions that acknowledge some wrongdoing, and then make an excuse for it. Of course it wasn't a deliberate stamp aimed at AWJ head, but Horwill knew he was there, and should never have stamped in the first place, if he was to be safe. Off balance? Fall rather than risk putting someone's eye out or worse with a stamp.

If a QC is willing to let recklessness go, then why should his competence and judgement not be called into question?

chippers · 01-07-2013 08:17AM

This feels like it's been scripted. BOD to possibly captain in the all deciding Lions tour. No better man deserves such an accolade. A game to get that monkey off his back forever. This is a game that will acknowledge a legend of the game.

MBolgia · 01-07-2013 08:18AM

I'm much more concerned about possible precedents set by Horwill being found not guilty of what was, at best, reckless and dangerous play than I am of possible precedents set for future citings. As a coach, and a parent of two young players, I want my kids and all of my players to be safe on the pitch at all times. Horwill should not have been playing last Saturday. Congratulations to the IRB for sending a message out to all players at all levels around the world; "you are responsible for the safety of your opponent, your teammate and yourself."

Horwill to miss Saturday's test? BOD to captain his final ever Lions game and win? Now that's justice.

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 08:20AM

MBolgia wrote: »

I'm much more concerned about possible precedents set by Horwill being found not guilty of what was, at best, reckless and dangerous play than I am of possible precedents set for future citings. As a coach, and a parent of two young players, I want my kids and all of my players to be safe on the pitch at all times. Horwill should not have been playing last Saturday. Congratulations to the IRB for sending a message out to all players at all levels around the world; "you are responsible for the safety of your opponent, your teammate and yourself."

Horwill to miss Saturday's test? BOD to captain his final ever Lions game and win? Now that's justice.

Justice?

It would be great for BOD, not sure where the justice comes into it though. Does he have a legal right to lead the Lions to victory?

Edit: As an aside, I think this is one of the problems with the mentality at times of Irish sporting teams - there is no such thing as a "right to win", it has to be earned every week. If BOD leads out the Lions and they lose, it is not a sporting injustice, it just simply means the Lions weren't good enough.

Buer · 01-07-2013 08:44AM

On the topic of precedents, the IRB have done this previously. This is a new option available that has only been brought in during the past 12 months. It was used last autumn when they appealed the sentence handed down to Adam Thompson for being "unduly lenient".

Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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