Is It A Bad Time To Be Male?

efb · 01-07-2013 12:45AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcy_6anmVUc

The ironing is delicious

WumBuster · 01-07-2013 12:47AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

In fairness, the points he's making are in relation to an unfortunately real issue. And the way men are depicted in ads and other media can be appalling. And unmarried fathers who are separated from the child(ren)'s mother are screwed if she won't allow them access. And men experiencing abuse in the home have very, very few supports. Sexual assault of men by women seems to be barely recognised also.
Just because, overall, it's grand to be a man in this society, doesn't mean there aren't specific areas in which men are badly affected simply due to being men.

It's good and important to discuss these things reasonably as the OP has done, rather than it being done in a provocative John Waters kinda way. It would be unfair to compare an approach like that of the OP to the latter.

Ok . Point taken. there is a need to discuss male issues and focus groups concentrating on such are valid. i just dont subscribe to the premise of the thread title that its a bad time to be a male, thats totally innacurate and disproportionate when you consider women issues and sexism in society towards women etc.

01-07-2013 12:50AM

WumBuster wrote: »

Ok . Point taken. there is a need to discuss male issues and focus groups concentrating on such are valid. i just dont subscribe to the premise of the thread title that its a bad time to be a male, thats totally innacurate and disproportionate when you consider women issues and sexism in society towards women etc.

Do you normally read just the topic title and post based on that, without reading what was originally discussed?

WumBuster · 01-07-2013 12:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you normally read just the topic title and post based on that, without reading what was originally discussed?

depends on the choice of words in the title

FreshKnickers · 01-07-2013 12:52AM

So, yes then.

01-07-2013 12:53AM

WumBuster wrote: »

depends on the choice of words in the title

Then in that case I ask you to go read what was actually said before jumping to conclusions. Maybe then you might be able to contribute something, especially when you have said you essentially agree to what was pretty much just a summary of what I had discussed.

WumBuster · 01-07-2013 12:55AM

FreshKnickers wrote: »

So, yes then.

he asked a direct question in the title, i gave my answer..

01-07-2013 12:58AM

*sigh* going back on topic ...

Does anyone else have any stories they'd like to share about these issues?

A while ago I was walking through a shopping centre, when I happened to notice a young boy, probably no older than 4, walking around by himself and looking seriously distressed. My first reaction was to go over there and try and see if he's OK and then bring him to a security desk - I've been that kid before and it's not fun. But then I realized just how bad that would look if anybody had noticed, so I left him be and continued walking, but kept my eye out for any security guards I might see.

WumBuster · 01-07-2013 01:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

*sigh* going back on topic ...

Does anyone else have any stories they'd like to share about these issues?

A while ago I was walking through a shopping centre, when I happened to notice a young boy, probably no older than 4, walking around by himself and looking seriously distressed. My first reaction was to go over there and try and see if he's OK and then bring him to a security desk - I've been that kid before and it's not fun. But then I realized just how bad that would look if anybody had noticed, so I left him be and continued walking, but kept my eye out for any security guards I might see.

Im not trying to to troll you by disagreeing with everything but this wouldnt have bothered me in the slightest what anyone would think i would have just walked him back to the desk.whats the worst could happen?

The Backwards Man · 01-07-2013 01:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

*sigh* going back on topic ...

Does anyone else have any stories they'd like to share about these issues?

A while ago I was walking through a shopping centre, when I happened to notice a young boy, probably no older than 4, walking around by himself and looking seriously distressed. My first reaction was to go over there and try and see if he's OK and then bring him to a security desk - I've been that kid before and it's not fun. But then I realized just how bad that would look if anybody had noticed, so I left him be and continued walking, but kept my eye out for any security guards I might see.

I know that it's probably not sensible advice to give, but I just do whatever I think is right and don't think of the consequences. Maybe one day I'll live to regret it, but I just wouldn't feel right doing otherwise.

cheesefiend · 01-07-2013 01:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

*sigh* going back on topic ...

Does anyone else have any stories they'd like to share about these issues?

A while ago I was walking through a shopping centre, when I happened to notice a young boy, probably no older than 4, walking around by himself and looking seriously distressed. My first reaction was to go over there and try and see if he's OK and then bring him to a security desk - I've been that kid before and it's not fun. But then I realized just how bad that would look if anybody had noticed, so I left him be and continued walking, but kept my eye out for any security guards I might see.

I watched a documentary a while ago about the 'Bystander Effect' where in public places if people see someone in distress they are less likely to help as there is a diffusion of responsibility. Anyway, one experiment they did was to get a little girl to wait on the side of the road for a long time and see if anyone would try and help her.

A lot of people stopped to see if she was alright, asking her where her mother was, trying to get hold of guards to make sure she got back to her parents etc. Nearly every person who stopped was a female and if men stopped it was usually because they were with a female. The reason most men said they didn't stop was because they were afraid of looking like a perv.

So you're definitely not the only one who feels like this and that's sad.

wretcheddomain · 01-07-2013 01:18AM

It's a great time to be mail, you get a pass called a 'stamp' and allows free travel around Ireland via the Postman, despite the recession!

Gbear · 01-07-2013 01:22AM

It's probably muddled together with the media-driven hysteria that violence is rising (and that includes child abuse, kidnappings and the like) when the frequency of pretty much all forms of violence has dropped off a cliff.

"10 ways to spot the paedo hiding in the playground with your kids" sells better than saying "you're probably grand and this is the best time to be living in the entire history of mankind".

SureYWouldntYa · 01-07-2013 01:54AM

Im 18 and look about 25 and get strange looks, glances and whatnot all the time when i spend time with my 5 and 3 old cousins. Their father died and im their only male role model at this early stage in their lives.

Going to the cinema, bringing them clothes shopping anything i do with them at all seems to be frowned upon by the general public

IvySlayer · 01-07-2013 01:58AM

Well I'm a male in my 20s, picked up my niece from her school plenty of times, I've never really felt any awkwardness I must say. Although I was walking my dog earlier, and 2 8 year old girls came over to make a fuss of him in the green, I kept thinking 'Oh God I hope no-one is watching me',

I remember reading about a famous Boardsie who was picking his children from school, was told men can't park near the school gates...that is shocking...if a teacher said that to me...

hsianloon · 01-07-2013 02:01AM

Have to agree. As a young male and non Irish national , I avoid talking to children even if spoken to here. I see mothers giving their children the hush don't talk to the bad man talk. Call it racist or whatever you will, but if you aren't Irish ,you're probably thought of as more likely to be a paedophile or commit genocide.

Frankly its good, I don't want to have anything to do with something that could easily be twisted by people into something it isn't.

Maybe its just a distraction from poor parenting or other miscellaneous social issues. Have to blame someone why not the boogie man called paedophiles.

You'll notice that whenever there's argument about controlling something in society, it gets thrown in. Oh won't somebody think of the children....

hullaballoo · 02-07-2013 03:51AM

One of the most awkward moments of my life happened last summer when this particular issue slapped me in the face like a bat out of hell.

I've been with my girlfriend for a few years and she has a friend who is a single mum. Her son who is five is particularly interested in dad-like men and craves this attention. As someone who grew up as an only-child with a single mum (my dad died a few months before I was born), I can see exactly why he wants a dad-like man to entertain him.

Anyway, I was being dad-like and taking this fella down to the rocks on Sandycove beach. He says "I need to wee" and I panicked completely because there's no place for him to go. I took him back to where my car was parked and told him to wee against the wheel. He said he didn't want to wee on my wheels, so he wee'd on the wheels of the car next to mine. Lo and behold, the owners of that car came back.

You won't believe it but they were nuns! What the fcuk?! So this 5-year-old cops on straight away that he can't wee on a nun's car and stops weeing. Incredible. But he still needs to finish this wee. So, after the nuns take like 20 minutes to reverse out of their parking space, he finishes his wee on the immaculate Audi beside my car. Never been so proud.

All of the while, I was scared sihtless I was going to be viewed as a paedophile just because I had this little fella who needed a wee!? I was cautious enough that I was on the phone to his mum the whole time this was happeneing. She thought it was fcuking hilarious of course but didn't see why I felt so alarmed!

Afterwards. we went to the shop, bought him super-cool sunglasses and then went on the Wii until Mum and son were too tired to function.

There is nothing wrong with any of the above but I could still be accused of all sorts of things both by the mother and by the authorities. That's what makes men afraid of being near children. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing for parent or child.

clairefontaine · 02-07-2013 03:59AM

hullaballoo wrote: »

One of the most awkward moments of my life happened last summer when this particular issue slapped me in the face like a bat out of hell.

I've been with my girlfriend for a few years and she has a friend who is a single mum. Her son who is five is particularly interested in dad-like men and craves this attention. As someone who grew up as an only-child with a single mum (my dad died a few months before I was born), I can see exactly why he wants a dad-like man to entertain him.

Anyway, I was being dad-like and taking this fella down to the rocks on Sandycove beach. He says "I need to wee" and I panicked completely because there's no place for him to go. I took him back to where my car was parked and told him to wee against the wheel. He said he didn't want to wee on my wheels, so he wee'd on the wheels of the car next to mine. Lo and behold, the owners of that car came back.

You won't believe it but they were nuns! What the fcuk?! So this 5-year-old cops on straight away that he can't wee on a nun's car and stops weeing. Incredible. But he still needs to finish this wee. So, after the nuns take like 20 minutes to reverse out of their parking space, he finishes his wee on the immaculate Audi beside my car. Never been so proud.

All of the while, I was scared sihtless I was going to be viewed as a paedophile just because I had this little fella who needed a wee!? I was cautious enough that I was on the phone to his mum the whole time this was happeneing. She thought it was fcuking hilarious of course but didn't see why I felt so alarmed!

Afterwards. we went to the shop, bought him super-cool sunglasses and then went on the Wii until Mum and son were too tired to function.

There is nothing wrong with any of the above but I could still be accused of all sorts of things both by the mother and by the authorities. That's what makes men afraid of being near children. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing for parent or child.

Well I am in the US now and can't let my little one wee behind the car or he will get charged with sexual indecency. He's five.

Yet a random old weirdo man in a Panama hat can sing him a love song on a bus. Then engage his attention with magic tricks. But I can't say piss off or he'll walk away complaining about pedo hysteria.

On the other hand your experience shows you how vulnerable a child of a single mom would be to someone acting like a daddy.

IM0 · 02-07-2013 04:13AM

its the price to pay for being the superior sex I suppose. strength wise I mean. its rediculous and like the OP those things do go through my head in those kinds of situations too, but just dont look shifty and its all good, but its horrible the way that sensational 'journalisn' has turned this into a new pheneomonen which it isnt, its always been the way, the only thing that has changed is the incessant expoitation of fear and anxiety of the public to sell ad space on tv and newspapers

I find the whole thing really scummy. there is even a name for the phenomenon, 'mean world syndrome' :mad:

Ruudi_Mentari · 02-07-2013 04:34AM

Droopy time is a bad time.

GalwayGuy2 · 02-07-2013 07:52AM

I don't think being a male in this society is all it's cracked out to be :P

But anyway...

it can be very, very bad indeed and it's not just gay men but lesbian women. I'd share some anecdotes from friends if I thought they'd be ok with it, but I don't know if they would. so not details, but the way even family members treat them sometimes is beyond ridiculous, like even them being around a kid is going to somehow going to do damage.

I didn't realize that stigma affected lesbian women as well

Scruffles · 02-07-2013 07:59AM

people;but blokes especialy shoud be having serious nationwide debates about societal attitudes to males,its because of this apathy that attitudes have been allowed to fester for so long.
it isnt just very wrong assumptions about them with kids that are made,it seems to be around any one classified as vulnerable.

in residential care,we [females] arent allowed to have personal care done by males,but female support staff can support males with personal care.
there are many times have been left in a wet old nappy for over a day because we hadnt had female staff on.
have argued this one for years because having male or female support means bugger all to self,but they dont seem to give a sht because they just say its the law,how can an assumption be law?

Ruudi_Mentari · 02-07-2013 08:02AM

ultimately though when is it ever a bad time other than the male equivalent of that time.

Zulu · 02-07-2013 08:29AM

It's also a bad time to be a little girl lost....

I was recently in a shopping centre (Ilac iirc) and there was a little girl crying, lost. She was about 7 at a guess (I've a niece that age). Although my instinct was to approach her, and calm her down, and help her find her parent(s), my wife wasn't with me. So instead, I left her there and went running for a security guard.

When I found one, and convinced him to return with me she was gone. I assume in the meantime her parent had returned.

But its sad that as a man, society (or at least my best perception of society) deems me as more of a risk to the child as her being lost on her own.

a posse ad esse · 02-07-2013 08:52AM

I have four older brothers, and it was not uncommon for them to take me out or spend the weekend at their place giving my parents a break. I remember going out with one of my brothers, I think I was 7 or 8 and this brother is 13 years older than me. We went for a movie and dinner. I was thanking him like I always do with a hug and kiss. The waitress asked me if everything was OK and whose the guy. I answered her but didn't know why she asked me those questions and did not speak much to my brother other than take his order

It was years later my brothers and I were having a discussion like this thread. My brothers told me that people would stare at them sometimes when they were with me. I didn't know why but they thought it was because they were too young to be my dad and perhaps a little too old to be my brothers? Or that not many older brothers would have an interest in a younger sister or sibling. People would stare more when we held hands or when I would run up to them to hug or kiss them. They were just happy noone accused them, beat them up or called the guards. Sometimes I wonder how people don’t have common sense to see a child is happy in its surroundings. It's one thing if the child looks withdrawn or in distress. But a child laughing and running around and happy around a guy, well it's obvious that guy is not a paedo!

It is sad really that men have to be careful in fear of being accused as one. I understand why some men prefer not to be alone with kids. I remember back in Ireland I had a colleague whose daughter was having a sleep over. She switched shifts and her husband was not happy and refused to have the sleepover because the wife would be home later leaving him alone most of the evening with the girls. The colleague didn't know what the fuss was about because he only needed to order pizza and leave them watching movies. He didn't need to be present with them and he could go in his office if he wanted to. She was only arriving home four hours later and she would help them to bed and it was only 4 girls and he could handle it for the time being. Most of us were thinking the same (all ladies) and thought the husband didn’t want to be bothered and thought it was too “girly” for him to handle. It was when our male colleague pointed out that he probably wanted her home out of fear and safety. Fear of being accused of doing something he did not do and safety by having a female adult around who would be a witness to back him up just in case. We were all speechless and did not know what to say at that point.

It’s saddening to be honest

. Only because some men fear being alone with kids or "overly friendly". Also I find in Ireland deters men entering certain professions like social work,counselling, day cares, working in outreach or shelters, etc. I find in Canada a lot better in this regard. When I work over at the hospital and a patient needs to be changed or bathed it does not matter if the orderly is male or female two people have to be present at all times. So even a female orderly has to have another orderly or nurse present! This is to protect the safety and integrity of the patient, its staff and the hospital. Nothing to do that a male staff member is more likely to abuse the patient.

Ruudi_Mentari · 02-07-2013 09:33AM

I'm the king o the travlurz; and it's a bad time for the rest o yes.

GLaDOS · 02-07-2013 09:36AM

It's an extension of paedophile hysteria that is prevalent everywhere*. You see it on AH all the time when there is a significant gap in the age of a relationship and the younger one is in their teens. All reason goes out the window and it's a awful accusation to face, so it just seems to be easier to avoid it completely, which is sad.

*Not that child sex abuse is not a serious issue, just needs to be guarded against without losing focus.

SeventySix · 02-07-2013 09:39AM

I have never heard of a man being accused of anything while helping a lost child in a shopping centre. Has anyone? Is the fear of accusation that keeps men from helping children as unfounded as the fear people have of their child being abused while lost in a shopping centre.

I think its a bit self perpetuating. The less common it is to see a man help a child, makes it all the more suspicious when a man does help a child. The less normal it becomes to see men alone with children, the more suspicious people will be when they do see it.

Balmed Out · 02-07-2013 09:40AM

a posse ad esse wrote: »

I find in Canada a lot better in this regard. When I work over at the hospital and a patient needs to be changed or bathed it does not matter if the orderly is male or female two people have to be present at all times. So even a female orderly has to have another orderly or nurse present!

I have no idea about nursing but from a child protection perspective that has been the norm in Ireland for about 15 years. I think since the swimming scandals with the two Olympic coaches. An adult is never supposed to be on their own with a child who isnt their own regardless of them being male or female.

Mr Benevolent · 02-07-2013 09:49AM

I've thought like you, OP, only to realise that I was over thinking it. Some men worry unnecessarily about this stuff. If the kid is happy playing with you, that's fine.

That said, if someone ever accuses you of anything unseemly related to children in public, insist that you both go to the local police station so that her (usually her) accusation can be officially recorded. She'll shut right up in a hurry.

Alternatively, pull out your phone and ask her to repeat her accusation on video. Libel can be expensive, and people with those kind of dubious preconceptions need to be humiliated in public.

Is It A Bad Time To Be Male?

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