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Is It A Bad Time To Be Male?

  • 30-06-2013 11:54PM
    #1
    Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Before I go on, it should be important to say that this is not intended to be a men v woman thread, as it's not the purpose, nor is it men's only, which is why I haven't posted this in the Gentleman's Club.

    I spent this weekend at my girlfriend's house, during which time, her two year old niece came visiting. This child and I get on really well, as I do with children in general. We were playing and dancing and just having a good time, as you would with any young child. Once the child had gone, we had a discussion about this and I remarked about how bad it must have looked to anybody else - this is a child that is not mine, who I have met only a few times, and yet I am holding her hand, or she is running to give me a hug, or giving me high five.

    This makes me sad, because I would think nothing of these things, yet you just know somebody would think it is indecent or that it is wrong. This discussion went on to other things and how there seems to be a lot of socially acceptable discrimination against men - it turns out that in some states across America, men are allowed to work in creches/daycare, but they are absolutely forbidden to change nappies, or assist the child in, say, going to the toilet or helping them get dressed. It seems to be the case in creches over here as similar stories have been mentioned previously. There are seemingly some libraries that won't allow men to go into the children's sections, or to playgrounds, and whatnot. Sure, statistics say that men are the more common abusers, yet I have read somewhere that a high rate of abuse by women are not reported at all, for whatever reason. So we'll likely never know the true facts.

    I have heard stories (either on here or in person, I am unsure) about fathers who would take their kids to the park, holding their child's hand or playing, only to hear some passerby mutter 'paedophile' under their breath. This is their child, yet they are not free from it.

    Moving aside from these issues ..
    I think most men have had those moments where you would be walking somewhere and there would be a woman walking in front of you, that would just happen to be walking in the exact same direction as you. As you're walking, you can tell they're glancing nervously back at you, or quickening their pace. It's one of those horrible moments, where if you slow down, it looks dodgy, if you speed up, it definitely looks dodgy, and if you stay at your normal pace, it still looks dodgy. There's been some times where I've actually changed the way I was walking somewhere, just for this reason.

    There are more issues to discuss, but this post is getting long enough as it is, but it does seem like people (be they children or women and men too, I suppose) are being conditioned to think that any man is a potential sex predator, dangerous and for a man to feel scared and ashamed of how society and other people might see them as.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    This thread will end well!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    If i had a child and somebody muttered something under their breath about being a peado towards me in a public place,i'd smash their head off their shoulders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Frosty McSnowballs


    Its a good point.

    I parked my car the other day. I wasn't getting out as I was waiting to collect someone. I noticed I was across the road from a playground with kids in it. I said fcuk that and moved the car own the road.

    I felt as if I was obliged to move as I didn't "own" any of the kids, so had no business to be there. Plus I didn't want passers by thinking I was a perv...so I put my pants back on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    You're perfectly right about there being a certain hysteria about pedophilia, and it's been going on for a while. There was a pretty famous case a while back where some lady had pictures of her kid in a bathtub and it kicked up a huge storm in the press accusing her of all sorts of things, you see these kinds of things happening a lot, and it's terrible. Or you heard the one about the paediatrician who's home was vandalized because some idiots thought it meant paedo?

    it's something that happens to a lot of LGBT people as well, that people assume if someone's gay they're going to abuse children. there was a girl who was thrown out of her home when she came out to her parents and they didn't want her around her younger sister because they were convinced she'd hurt her. it's sad, and really should be challenged.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    OP, while I see your point, being a white male in a modern western society (assumption), you don't really have it all that bad


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭tommyboy2222


    It's a great time to be male


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its a good point.

    I parked my car the other day. I wasn't getting out as I was waiting to collect someone. I noticed I was across the road from a playground with kids in it. I said fcuk that and moved the car own the road.

    I felt as if I was obliged to move as I didn't "own" any of the kids, so had no business to be there. Plus I didn't want passers by thinking I was a perv...so I put my pants back on.

    Disregarding the joke at the end, something similar has happened to me. My girlfriend works in a creche and one day I was going to meet her on her lunchbreak. The bus dropped me off near there, so I thought I would wait near there and stood a tiny bit away from there. In my head I kept thinking how dodgy it must have looked, avoiding eye contact with the creche completely, focusing all my attention on my phone instead, and yet some woman still crossed over the road from where she was walking, asking me if I'm OK, before continuing on her walk.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    OP, while I see your point, being a white male in a modern western society (assumption), you don't really have it all that bad

    That's not the issue at all. That's pretty much like saying, "Oh, your job sucks? Well, the Jews in concentration camps had it worse". It's still an issue, and a pretty big one at that. And one that is only going to get worse before it gets better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    That's not the issue at all. That's pretty much like saying, "Oh, your job sucks? Well, the Jews in concentration camps had it worse". It's still an issue, and a pretty big one at that. And one that is only going to get worse before it gets better.

    Oh, I agree, I was more reacting to the title of the piece


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Frosty McSnowballs


    Disregarding the joke at the end, something similar has happened to me. My girlfriend works in a creche and one day I was going to meet her on her lunchbreak. The bus dropped me off near there, so I thought I would wait near there and stood a tiny bit away from there. In my head I kept thinking how dodgy it must have looked, avoiding eye contact with the creche completely, focusing all my attention on my phone instead, and yet some woman still crossed over the road from where she was walking, asking me if I'm OK, before continuing on her walk.

    Bar my last sentence, the rest was true.

    It's crazy the way we subconsciously act in those situations. Most of the time our actions make us look as if we ARE up to no good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,867 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Were you the one who first commented on how bad it must have looked? That's part of the problem that people are afraid of something looking bad when there was absolutely no ill intent at all. I understand your concern that you don't want people thinking you're this or that but to quote the man in your signature "Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a peadophile, some people are just nice."


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭dobman88


    I notice the looks and under the breath mutters if I am walking around town with my sister. I'm 24 and she is 16 and we are really close because things weren't easy when she was small. For her 12th birthday I took her shopping and spoilt her rotten and we will still hang out together the odd time but I feel REALLY self conscious when I'm just walking beside her chatting. Its like you can feel yourself being tagged by peoples ignorance, its even worse if we go for a bite to eat, the looks we get off the waitresses and other diners is incredible.

    Its as if I must automatically be a paedophile for "going out" with a girl who is clearly very young and it sickens me that I cant enjoy the time properly with my sister. When she was a little kid, there wasn't a problem but it seems people find it "weird" now.

    So yes, I agree there is a certain stigma associated with men these days.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cormie wrote: »
    Were you the one who first commented on how bad it must have looked? That's part of the problem that people are afraid of something looking bad when there was absolutely no ill intent at all. I understand your concern that you don't want people thinking you're this or that but to quote the man in your signature "Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a peadophile, some people are just nice."

    Thank you for quoting Scroobius Pip - I was going to do it myself.

    This time I was the first to mention it, but we have had the discussion before. But you're right though - a lot of it is how we are forced to perceive ourselves.
    Links234 wrote: »

    it's something that happens to a lot of LGBT people as well, that people assume if someone's gay they're going to abuse children. there was a girl who was thrown out of her home when she came out to her parents and they didn't want her around her younger sister because they were convinced she'd hurt her. it's sad, and really should be challenged.

    thanks for that, Links. Was wondering what it would be like in the LGBT community. It makes me wonder that it must be doubly bad - not only would you have the perceived stigma of being male in this circumstances, but this is coupled with the perceived stigma attached to homosexuality in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    There was a thread here a while ago about men being called paedophiles when out in public with their children. I honestly doubt that's something that happens very often. Maybe a bunch of loudmouth teenagers might say it, but they would be the type of idiots that are just looking for a reason to shout abuse at someone. Any normal adult who sees a man and a child together would just realise it's a man and his son or daughter.

    This might be off topic somewhat but I'll tell you what I hate - when a mother wants to stop her child misbehaving and she points at me (or whatever man happens to be nearby) and says "that man is coming to get you if you don't stop screaming". Screw you. If you can't get your child to behave that's your problem, don't drag me into it and make your child afraid of me. This happened once and the child stood in front of me shouting something and blocking my way while the mother laughed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    thanks for that, Links. Was wondering what it would be like in the LGBT community. It makes me wonder that it must be doubly bad - not only would you have the perceived stigma of being male in this circumstances, but this is coupled with the perceived stigma attached to homosexuality in general.

    it can be very, very bad indeed and it's not just gay men but lesbian women. I'd share some anecdotes from friends if I thought they'd be ok with it, but I don't know if they would. so not details, but the way even family members treat them sometimes is beyond ridiculous, like even them being around a kid is going to somehow going to do damage.

    it's a huge stigma perpetuated by anti-lgbt groups


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    when a mother wants to stop her child misbehaving and she points at me (or whatever man happens to be nearby) and says "that man is coming to get you if you don't stop screaming". Screw you.

    well then you should've come and got the kid and say "you're welcome" to the mum :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    I get annoyed when men are constantly made out to be the fools in adds.

    I hear what you are saying re the peado hysteria. Its a shame that men feel they need to be so guarded now around kids. Children are missing out on interacting with all the normal men that we interacted with growing up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,867 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    There was a thread here a while ago about men being called paedophiles when out in public with their children. I honestly doubt that's something that happens very often. Maybe a bunch of loudmouth teenagers might say it, but they would be the type of idiots that are just looking for a reason to shout abuse at someone. Any normal adult who sees a man and a child together would just realise it's a man and his son or daughter.

    This might be off topic somewhat but I'll tell you what I hate - when a mother wants to stop her child misbehaving and she points at me (or whatever man happens to be nearby) and says "that man is coming to get you if you don't stop screaming". Screw you. If you can't get your child to behave that's your problem, don't drag me into it and make your child afraid of me. This happened once and the child stood in front of me shouting something and blocking my way while the mother laughed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxQhLZ5bMyQ



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    This might be off topic somewhat but I'll tell you what I hate - when a mother wants to stop her child misbehaving and she points at me (or whatever man happens to be nearby) and says "that man is coming to get you if you don't stop screaming". Screw you. If you can't get your child to behave that's your problem, don't drag me into it and make your child afraid of me. This happened once and the child stood in front of me shouting something and blocking my way while the mother laughed.

    Dara O'Briain has this problem


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Could be arsed reading your long and whining post but no, its great time to be a male. fast forward a few hundred years and then it could be a different story.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    woodoo wrote: »
    I get annoyed when men are constantly made out to be the fools in adds.

    I hear what you are saying re the peado hysteria. Its a shame that men feel they need to be so guarded now around kids. Children are missing out on interacting with all the normal men that we interacted with growing up.

    That was somewhat another point I have.

    Does anyone remember those ads that were released recently - something like, "don't be that guy" or whatever (probably not the right slogan)? But it basically alluded to the fact that only men were capable of domestic violence. I remember it did cause a pretty strong reaction at the time. So now we have groups painting men as being vicious women beaters as well.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Frosty McSnowballs


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Could be arsed reading your long and whining post but no, its great time to be a male. fast forward a few hundred years and then it could be a different story.

    Good man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Links234 wrote: »
    but the way even family members treat them sometimes is beyond ridiculous, like even them being around a kid is going to somehow going to do damage.
    Hence why I'm not saying a thing about my sexuality to my folks until I'm out of the family home. Religious sites have given them bad ideas....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Does anyone remember those ads that were released recently - something like, "don't be that guy" or whatever (probably not the right slogan)? But it basically alluded to the fact that only men were capable of domestic violence. I remember it did cause a pretty strong reaction at the time. So now we have groups painting men as being vicious women beaters as well.

    the Don't Be That Guy campaign was actually anti-rape, and had a lot of positive impact too


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Could be arsed reading your long and whining post but no, its great time to be a male. fast forward a few hundred years and then it could be a different story.
    In fairness, the points he's making are in relation to an unfortunately real issue. And the way men are depicted in ads and other media can be appalling. And unmarried fathers who are separated from the child(ren)'s mother are screwed if she won't allow them access. And men experiencing abuse in the home have very, very few supports. Sexual assault of men by women seems to be barely recognised also.
    Just because, overall, it's grand to be a man in this society, doesn't mean there aren't specific areas in which men are badly affected simply due to being men.

    It's good and important to discuss these things reasonably as the OP has done, rather than it being done in a provocative John Waters kinda way. It would be unfair to compare an approach like that of the OP to the latter.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Links234 wrote: »
    the Don't Be That Guy campaign was actually anti-rape, and had a lot of positive impact too

    Apologies, that wasn't the slogan. I can't exactly remember what it was, but it was discussed in the Gentleman's Club to some length. It was about domestic abuse more so than rape.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    If i had a child and somebody muttered something under their breath about being a peado towards me in a public place,i'd smash their head off their shoulders.

    I'd bring the child home do some streches and then smash the kuntz face in


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭April O Neill


    I think most men have had those moments where you would be walking somewhere and there would be a woman walking in front of you, that would just happen to be walking in the exact same direction as you. As you're walking, you can tell they're glancing nervously back at you, or quickening their pace. It's one of those horrible moments, where if you slow down, it looks dodgy, if you speed up, it definitely looks dodgy, and if you stay at your normal pace, it still looks dodgy. There's been some times where I've actually changed the way I was walking somewhere, just for this reason.

    Have to admit, I've done the nervy female thing at night - last time I did the guy yelled at me "You're not that fúcking special"! I know I was being a bit silly but jeez, that's not the way to deal with it! I don't why I get nervous, but I do!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    And the way men are depicted in ads and other media can be appalling.

    I've huge issues with those kind of ads, because neither man or woman comes off well in them.. he's an incompitent idiot who should be getting up of his lazy arse, and she's a nagging bitch who can't do anything for herself. those sort of ads should go the way of the dodo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    There was a thread in the "The Gentlemen's Club" forum about this issue.


    Needless to say, due to risk of looking bad, less men are volunteering to be in charge of kids, and I think there are also less male teachers studying. The accumulation of both of these leads to a lack of positive male role models for young males, and thus continues less males. Sad, really.


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  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just wanted to add that the campaign I was thinking of that more or less alluded to the fact that only men were responsible for domestic violence was called "Man Up" and not "Don't Be That Guy", or whatever - here is the thread on the Gentleman's Club that discusses this issue better.


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