The Anglo Irish Tapes

tara73 · 30-06-2013 10:19AM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

We are the laughing stock of Europe. :rolleyes:

if it's one consolidation in this mess, let me tell you: no, you're not.

there's a few articles in the german media and maybe some tv coverage at the end of the news in germany about the tapes. (just for one day I think)
not to sound harsh or arrogant, but Ireland is NOT that important to germany/ france / italy, or europe in general that this tape stuff evokes a massive outroar.

people hear it, shake their heads and moan a bit about this ruthless bankers, but after a minute it's forgotten. we have the same bankerscum and kind of scandals here in germany, so people are not that stupid to condemn the irish as a whole group about it.

angela merkel has to give her statement of contempt in the public, but be sure, it's not she's lying in bed at night and swears revenge to the irish.

there are far, far bigger agendas on her calender.

SpaceTime · 30-06-2013 10:26AM

The impression I took from the German and French coverage was more like : Irish people lied to and screwed over by banks that drew them into a bailout.

A lot of it was about how we were shocked and very angry.

I saw a lot of comments about how at least irish people had the tapes and who knows what was being said at our banks (Austria, France, Germany etc)

There's a lot of solidarity between people across the EU against banksters and speculators who have cost us all very dearly.

Don't assume everyone's out to get us. Read some of the European coverage of it via Google translate

emo72 · 30-06-2013 11:23AM

we need more greek and brazillian immigrants.

renegademaster · 30-06-2013 11:23AM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You are right. Bankers could actually ring every single Irish person to gloat about how they set in motion the loss of their house or job etc, all the while singing a tribute to Germany, and we STILL wouldnt do a damn thing about it, bar ringing Joe Duffy (ironic, a man who cant relate to anyones financial problems) and moan "Oh its terrible Joe, they ruined the country , oh they are blackguards, someone shuld do something Joe" etc etc.

Irish people just sit back and take it, we have no backbone, no fight and no rebel in us. After centuries of British Rule, we just do our best to be good little boys and girls and not rock the boat. We are the laughing stock of Europe. :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that 100 people gathered at the GPO and marched to the central bank on Thurs, 500 people protested yesterday, marched through town by central bank and back up grafton st., thousands supportd us along the route with eager clapping and pride in their eyes, then we had a sit down protest on o connell bridge blocking traffic up the quays and back towards grafton street direction for about an hour, some brave protestors interrupted Joan Burtons and Ruairi Quinns deceitful little propaganda attempt at hijacking the pride march with their open top bus decked out in vote labour flags. the bus was only allowed pass when the last piece of offending promo material was removed by the Garda Sergeant. the Irish Proclamation was read out inside the GPO to put the icing on a very very productive day.

the fight has been taken up and now all that's needed is for you to join in and hey presto, we got a very large protest and even RTE will be forced to report on it.

next demonstration is at the Dail on Wednesday with unemployed protestors or people with the day off/taking a day off work, etc gathering from 1pm, everyone else are arriving at 6 and it's going on until 9pm.

https://www.facebook.com/events/169550859889655/?ref=2

bring drums or whatever to make lots of noise

RiverOfLove · 30-06-2013 12:26PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Drumm has given an interview on the tapes to Irish Central: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Fromer-Anglo-Irish-Bank-chief-David-Drumm-apologizes-on-tapes-says-inquiry-needed-on-bank-guarantee-213713761.html?page=1

cordially,
Scofflaw

Thanks for linking this.

I read his apology piece a few times and it's all a load of cock. He's claiming in his piece that the bank had a liquity issue of 7bn yet the tapes revealed they needed much more.

He's right about one thing. Other recordings should be released.

He's going down and he's taking others down with him. I hope he pushes for other recording on those involved in the bank guarantee to be released.

donegal_road · 30-06-2013 12:41PM

there has been little or no mention of the Anglo Grey Market sale of share options, or their private bank in Austria which they sold in 2008.

Wurzelbert · 30-06-2013 01:04PM

tara73 wrote: »

[....] we have the same bankerscum and kind of scandals here in germany[...]

true, bankers in top positions tend to be crooks in every country and it has always been that way – there was a reason jesus expelled the money changers from the temple…i guess that line of work just tends to draw inherently greedy and dishonest people…
the difference between the situation here in ireland and that in germany is that the guys in ireland (bankers, politicians and others) managed to bring the state to its knees and bankrupt the nation…and now we are all paying for their crimes with all the tax hikes, tax levies and all while they are still living in luxury…so, to me anyway, this is personal...

Boombastic · 30-06-2013 01:32PM

Sunday indo has labelled lenihan as the good. Are they not afraid of prejudicing a trial anymore?

Its obvious who got to them.

riclad · 30-06-2013 01:32PM

This is the biggest con job this country every experienced.
They said give us 7billion,
they had loads of bad debts, stock was worth zero cent.
IF they had said debts are 30 billion more than assets the government
might have said we,ll let this bank fail.
They led the government to believe this bank was worth saving.
I don,t know if what they did was technically against the law ,
BUT the attitude on the tapes is disgusting,cynical,
eg give us the money,
let the bank be nationalised , we,ll have our jobs ,pensions etc
IF this costs the taxpayer 30billion,
too bad .

This country is surviving on money from ecb ,germany etc.

Greek style protests would not help anyone.

WE need new laws against fraud ,white collar crime,
non recourse loans .
And laws to protect whistle blowers in banks, semi states ,
and in any company,
to allow them to reveal fraud ,or corruption in any company ,
or government body.
NO bank should be allowed to lend money to someone to buy shares in that bank.

RiverOfLove · 30-06-2013 01:38PM

In relation to yesterdays tapes and the government going against Merkil L's order to shut down anglo, my guess is that a member of government or a few more, invested heavily in anglo and afraid of not getting their money back they included anglo in a guarantee to save the rest of the failing banks maybe thinking - 'ah sure it's only 7billion anglo needs, it's not too much for the taxpayer as a whole to pick up on and we'll get to see the million/s that we invested back'.

emo72 · 30-06-2013 01:48PM

RiverOfLove wrote: »

In relation to yesterdays tapes and the government going against Merkil L's order to shut down anglo, my guess is that a member of government or a few more, invested heavily in anglo and afraid of not getting their money back they included anglo in a guarantee to save the rest of the failing banks maybe thinking - 'ah sure it's only 7billion anglo needs, it's not too much for the taxpayer as a whole to pick up on and we'll get to see the million/s that we invested back'.

It could be as simple as that.

donegal_road · 30-06-2013 02:13PM

RiverOfLove wrote: »

In relation to yesterdays tapes and the government going against Merkil L's order to shut down anglo, my guess is that a member of government or a few more, invested heavily in anglo and afraid of not getting their money back they included anglo in a guarantee to save the rest of the failing banks maybe thinking - 'ah sure it's only 7billion anglo needs, it's not too much for the taxpayer as a whole to pick up on and we'll get to see the million/s that we invested back'.

a lot of people suspect this, how it will be proved is another story

Hootanany · 30-06-2013 02:23PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Sunday indo has labelled lenihan as the good. Are they not afraid of prejudicing a trial anymore?

Its obvious who got to them.

A PM please

mike65 · 30-06-2013 02:28PM

It would be interesting to see a list of shareholders.

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=1842

Anglo Irish Bank had far fewer shareholders — fewer than 20,000; just over 100 of them held 85% of the total shares between them.

Would'nt you just love to see those names.

30-06-2013 02:30PM

so what happened since last Thursday and new updates ?

saw some paper over the weekend that one of the guy that was on the tapes is living the high life in france with his wife

Almaviva · 30-06-2013 02:41PM

Irish bankers, politicians, business people, and the situations they get themselves into, are reflective of the quality, sophistication, and capability of the Irish in general - pretty poor.

The recordings betray the amateur nature of these people despite their job titles and outer veneer of competence - but its bizarre to hear the rest of their compatriots condemn and moan about them as if they were any better.

People of Ireland, you are listening to yourselves on those tapes. The first step to improvement will be to recognise that.

Wurzelbert · 30-06-2013 03:02PM

Almaviva wrote: »

Irish bankers, politicians, business people, and the situations they get themselves into, are reflective of the quality, sophistication, and capability of the Irish in general - pretty poor.

The recordings betray the amateur nature of these people despite their job titles and outer veneer of competence - but its bizarre to hear the rest of their compatriots condemn and moan about them as if they were any better.

People of Ireland, you are listening to yourselves on those tapes. The first step to improvement will be to recognise that.

harsh words, yet i suppose there is more than a grain of truth in them…and, after all, every nation has the “ruling elite” it deserves…

mike65 · 30-06-2013 03:38PM

Interesting blog here

http://www.gavinsblog.com/2009/09/29/anglo-irish-bank-part-1/

which attempts to break down share ownership and the various facilitators for same, while this thread

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?3395-Anglo-Irish-Bank-and-Subsidiaries-The-History

gathers together the multitude of Anglo-Irish sub companies (an astonishing number)

I've not gone through either in detail but a few interesting names catch the eye, esp the Ansbacher connection (Anglo swallowed the dodgy offshore-accounts machine in the mid 90s)

worded · 30-06-2013 03:59PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You are right. Bankers could actually ring every single Irish person to gloat about how they set in motion the loss of their house or job etc, all the while singing a tribute to Germany, and we STILL wouldnt do a damn thing about it, bar ringing Joe Duffy (ironic, a man who cant relate to anyones financial problems) and moan "Oh its terrible Joe, they ruined the country , oh they are blackguards, someone shuld do something Joe" etc etc.

Irish people just sit back and take it, we have no backbone, no fight and no rebel in us. After centuries of British Rule, we just do our best to be good little boys and girls and not rock the boat. We are the laughing stock of Europe. :rolleyes:

How does it make you feel ?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9oiO6RVKrU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Carnegie · 30-06-2013 05:03PM

.

30-06-2013 05:11PM

Carnegie wrote: »

David Drumm is living it up in the states with the 7 million euros he stole from anglo/taxpayers, claiming bankruptcy so we can't get one cent of it back

is he broke ?

Carnegie · 30-06-2013 05:19PM

no

SpaceTime · 30-06-2013 05:36PM

This is what annoys me about debates online about a problem like this in Ireland.

We need to deal with the rotten institutions that allowed this to happen and reform them.

We do not need to go on a multi-page self-flagellation exercise about how we're 'unfit to govern ourselves'. It's depressing, post-colonial, subservient nonsense and it really needs to be moved on from.

Do you seriously think the UK, France, Italy or the US is completely corruption free?
The US in particular has quite literally the best democracy money can buy and its political system is riddled with extremely powerful lobbyists and religious extremists.

Various major French political figures (including presidents) seem to be endlessly embroiled in corruption and there are always arrests and investigations bubbling away in the background. We pay no attention in Ireland because we're not French-speaking.

Our system in theory should work well but it has been screwed up and tweaked to allow things like the executive to become completely unaccountable to the Dail under the current 'standing orders' (the house's own rules). The reality during the boom years was that the Dail was more concerned about distributing 'goodies' to their backbench constituencies while the 'big boys and big girls' took care of running the country at cabinet and they didn't ask any serious questions.

We also need to do something to prevent TDs from behaving like County Councillors and to start focusing on national issues.
People have to start pestering Councillors about road issues and minor local things and only pester TDs about national issues.

We also need to re-implement the full freedom of information legislation that was there during the rainbow coalition and has been eroded (particularly by FF).

I would like to see FOI legislation and transparency requirements for public bodies being put in at a constitutional level where it can't be fiddled with in future. It's a fundamental right.

homerjay2005 · 30-06-2013 06:50PM

Almaviva wrote: »

Irish bankers, politicians, business people, and the situations they get themselves into, are reflective of the quality, sophistication, and capability of the Irish in general - pretty poor.

The recordings betray the amateur nature of these people despite their job titles and outer veneer of competence - but its bizarre to hear the rest of their compatriots condemn and moan about them as if they were any better.

People of Ireland, you are listening to yourselves on those tapes. The first step to improvement will be to recognise that.

there is a certain element of truth in that, but then you didnt see other bank managers acting like that (not that we know of course) AND, the likes of Lenihan even on his death bed fought tooth and nail for this country to sort the mess.

of course this lot helped to blow the money with their wreckless policies but as Lenihan said himself before he died "we all partied".

Killinator · 30-06-2013 07:03PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

"we all partied".

I didn't!

But I get the pleasure of paying anyway.

RobbingBandit · 30-06-2013 07:26PM

Odd question to ask but here goes, how many if even any politicians or councillors now serving their terms held senior positions in Anglo in or around 2008 are there in Ireland right now?

who_me · 30-06-2013 07:31PM

Almaviva wrote: »

Irish bankers, politicians, business people, and the situations they get themselves into, are reflective of the quality, sophistication, and capability of the Irish in general - pretty poor.

The recordings betray the amateur nature of these people despite their job titles and outer veneer of competence - but its bizarre to hear the rest of their compatriots condemn and moan about them as if they were any better.

People of Ireland, you are listening to yourselves on those tapes. The first step to improvement will be to recognise that.

Bull****.

I've never taken a loan with no intention of paying it back. I've never tried to trick anyone into bailing me out of any financial problems (at a massive cost to themselves) and ridiculed them as they did so.

I think you're just making stuff up. You wouldn't be a banker by any chance?

SpaceTime · 30-06-2013 08:14PM

Killinator wrote: »

I didn't!

But I get the pleasure of paying anyway.

It's a bit when you go on a night out with some freeloaders who drink the wine cellar dry and then expect you to just split the bill.

Then when the waiter arrives, they discover they also forgot their wallets!

jamesccp · 30-06-2013 08:54PM

It seems people are forgetting anglo was copying america. Remember lehmans, the US goverment then had to bailout goldman sac's and all the rest of the investment bANKS. Read To Big To Fail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Big_to_Fail_(book). Anglo were the norm not the exception.

RiverOfLove · 30-06-2013 09:06PM

who_me wrote: »

Bull****.

I've never taken a loan with no intention of paying it back. I've never tried to trick anyone into bailing me out of any financial problems (at a massive cost to themselves) and ridiculed them as they did so.

The 'we all partied' saying was designed to shoulder as much blame and guilt onto the backs of ordinary people, many perhaps only guilty of wanting a family home to settle in. Deflecting away from those who very much partied in the elite. Edit: and away from those property developers.

The Anglo Irish Tapes

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