Have you ever been to a Brothel

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 04:49PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

But my point is that you CAN experience that, without paying for it, and there are so many opportunities open to you to do so!

There isn't opportunites for everybody though. Your argument has no logic because everyone is different with different circumstances.

So an overweight paraplegic man living in the arsehole of nowhere is going to have 'opportunites' to have free sex? Really?

Yamanoto · 29-06-2013 04:59PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Do we not link posters to resources all the time and expect them to go read them?

Typically not to 40-page documents in their entirety, no.

To pertinent pages or passages within a text, yes.

Czarcasm wrote: »

I have been asked to provide evidence to back up my opinion, I have provided it.

In the case of the question below, you most certainly have not.

Fire over an auld PM, if you happen to come by the answer to same.

Originally Posted by Yamanoto
Quick question so.

If two consenting adults freely agree to enact a transaction for sex (again let me make this clear - no coercion involved), would you have an objection to that and if so, on what grounds?

Speisekarte · 29-06-2013 05:00PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Do we not link posters to resources all the time and expect them to go read them? I have been asked to provide evidence to back up my opinion, I have provided it. There's no deflection or evasiveness going on there.

Anyway, I can only see this discussion revolving in a circular fashion so I'll bow out for now and maybe the thread might get back on the topic of -

"Have you ever been to a brothel?"

and less about what's right or wrong about the sex industry.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You've been asked simple questions and you have the temerity to tell people to scroll through other threads in search of answers.

Do you believe there is anything wrong with two willing and consenting adults exchanging sex for cash?

If so, why is it wrong?

Mariasofia · 29-06-2013 05:05PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

There isn't opportunites for everybody though. Your argument has no logic because everyone is different with different circumstances.

So an overweight paraplegic man living in the arsehole of nowhere is going to have 'opportunites' to have free sex? Really?

Well maybe if he was living near an overweight paraplegic woman with a very obliging
carer

.

Sorry.....it was just getting too heated. The tension was getting to me

.

Wacker The Attacker · 29-06-2013 05:08PM

I've never used a prostitute.

I'd have to be fit to explode with desperation before i'd even consider it

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 05:13PM

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

I've never used a prostitute.

I'd have to be fit to explode with desperation before i'd even consider it

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that situation.

Grayson · 29-06-2013 05:18PM

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

I've never used a prostitute.

I'd have to be fit to explode with desperation before i'd even consider it

Wack off instead?

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 05:29PM

Grayson wrote: »

Wack off instead?

Wack off over a hoes face. That's the prerogative.

Specialun · 29-06-2013 05:30PM

Well this escalated quickly......

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 05:38PM

fatbatman wrote: »

Wack off over a hoes face. That's the prerogative.

Hmm...

fatbatman wrote: »

I'm shocked and appalled at the illogical and ill-informed viewpoints on prostitution demonstrated by some in this thread. There is a massive stigma against males who use prostitutes in this country, and it's something that should really change.

You won't be changing any stigma any time soon with your top comment! :pac:

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 05:44PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Hmm...

You won't be changing any stigma any time soon with your top comment! :pac:

There's nothing wrong with an auld facial. Tis a great moisturiser.

Pug160 · 29-06-2013 06:01PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

So the only indicators are the fact that they're cheap and good-looking? How sure are you about that? It sounds like you're just guessing to me.

No. But it's easy enough to tell who is clearly not trafficked, so if there is any doubt I'd imagine a man with any decency wouldn't risk it. Most of the men who are using trafficked women probably have a fair idea that they're trafficked and simply don't care. That is something they have to live with.

I'll ask my own question here: is it possible to use an escort and know for sure that she isn't trafficked? I'd say yes. Lots of women are Irish or British, have their own website, are articulate and seem to live a fairly decent life. It simply depends on what (as a potential punter) you choose to look for.

Pug160 · 29-06-2013 06:11PM

MOC88 wrote: »

It sounds like you need to lighten up rather than sit in front of your laptop analysing the statements made on AH of all places. From the amateur psychologist in me you're trying to find validation for your life by insulting me you seek to prove to yourself that you are superior and have a better understanding of peoples motivations and emotions. More psychobabble blah blah blah

Hmmmm I'm getting defensive you must have really hit home....:eek: Congratulations on your armchair assesment of a persons psychology from a brief statement made on after hours. I'll be looking forward to seeing further analysis on other's posts but I get the feeling this was a once off and you've a personal problem with what I said.

It just doesn't seem to me, to be something a healthy individual would do. At the very least it's immature. And at worst it's a sign of bigger problems. You posted it up on a forum so if you don't want to be judged it would be a good idea to be more discrete from now on.

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 06:14PM

Pug160 wrote: »

No. But it's easy enough to tell who is clearly not trafficked, so if there is any doubt I'd imagine a man with any decency wouldn't risk it. Most of the men who are using trafficked women probably have a fair idea that they're trafficked and simply don't care. That is something they have to live with.

I'll ask my own question here: is it possible to use an escort and know for sure that she isn't trafficked? I'd say yes. Lots of women are Irish or British, have their own website, are articulate and seem to live a fairly decent life. It simply depends on what (as a potential punter) you choose to look for.

You cannot just say they are either "independent" or "trafficked". There may be a middle man involved, that does not equate to the sex worker being coerced. This notion of 'she thought she was going to be a famous supermodel but instead she was forced to be a prostitute against her will' is simply propaganda from people who have an unreasonable problem with sex work. I'd say there's just as much exploitation in any other industry.

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 06:16PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Hmm...

You won't be changing any stigma any time soon with your top comment! :pac:

After you look up the definition of 'involuntary', as you have displayed earlier in this thread your lack of understanding of the term, then review the word 'joke' also.

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 06:27PM

fatbatman wrote: »

You cannot just say they are either "independent" or "trafficked". There may be a middle man involved, that does not equate to the sex worker being coerced. This notion of 'she thought she was going to be a famous supermodel but instead she was forced to be a prostitute against her will' is simply propaganda from people who have an unreasonable problem with sex work. I'd say there's just as much exploitation in any other industry.

Some women are been advertised as independent when they are actually working for an agency. But even if a woman is working for an agency, that doesn't mean she was coerced, so I agree with what you're saying about the propaganda, but it still wouldn't be easy tell if they're trafficked in every situation.

On the TV3 programme about escorts, it showed a pimp moving women around the country to different apartments, but whether or not they were fooled into thinking they'd get a different job before they came over is another thing.

downonthefarm · 29-06-2013 06:28PM

where would these establishments be located so I can avoid them on my weekly meander around town

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 06:31PM

fatbatman wrote: »

After you look up the definition of 'involuntary', as you have displayed earlier in this thread your lack of understanding of the term, then review the word 'joke' also.

It's rather simple - you claim there is a massive stigma against males who "use prostitutes" (your words) in this country, and that it's something that needs to change... and then you come out with this "joke" -

fatbatman wrote: »

Wack off over a hoes face. That's the prerogative.

And then you wonder why there is such a stigma against men in this country who choose to avail of the services provided by sex workers.

Seriously?

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 06:31PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

where would these establishments be located so I can avoid them on my weekly meander around town

This isn't Amsterdam mate, they're fairly easy to avoid.

Pug160 · 29-06-2013 06:35PM

fatbatman wrote: »

You cannot just say they are either "independent" or "trafficked". There may be a middle man involved, that does not equate to the sex worker being coerced. This notion of 'she thought she was going to be a famous supermodel but instead she was forced to be a prostitute against her will' is simply propaganda from people who have an unreasonable problem with sex work. I'd say there's just as much exploitation in any other industry.

For anyone who is against the sale of sex the issue of trafficked women plays a very big part in their reasoning of why they are against it. I suspect it's being used because most of the other arguments are out of date and are based on subjective moral codes and beliefs.

The fact that women are being trafficked is not a good enough reason to make the sale of sex illegal. If women are being trafficked then the trafficking itself needs to be tackled and the perpetrators brought to justice. Buying illegal alcohol or DVDs helps criminals and perpetuates the problem. It's the same with trafficked women. But the people who are not aiding and abetting are not in any way part of the problem.

downonthefarm · 29-06-2013 06:40PM

I would hate to accidentally wander into on of their dens be trying to get out and slip and land on a brasser

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 06:42PM

Pug160 wrote: »

For anyone who is against the sale of sex the issue of trafficked women plays a very big part in their reasoning of why they are against it. I suspect it's being used because most of the other arguments are out of date and are based on subjective moral codes and beliefs.

The fact that women are being trafficked is not a good enough reason to make the sale of sex illegal. If women are being trafficked then the trafficking itself needs to be tackled and the perpetrators brought to justice. Buying illegal alcohol or DVDs helps criminals and perpetuates the problem. It's the same with trafficked women. But the people who are not aiding and abetting are not in any way part of the problem.

Agreed. Prostitution and trafficking are two different things. Really what they need to be doing is allowing two or more women to work together in the same place so it would make it safer for them. Currently that's against the law as it constitutes a brothel, yet its ok for one woman to sell sex in an apartment.

Legs.Eleven · 29-06-2013 06:45PM

Pug160 wrote: »

For anyone who is against the sale of sex the issue of trafficked women plays a very big part in their reasoning of why they are against it. I suspect it's being used because most of the other arguments are out of date and are based on subjective moral codes and beliefs.

The fact that women are being trafficked is not a good enough reason to make the sale of sex illegal. If women are being trafficked then the trafficking itself needs to be tackled and the perpetrators brought to justice. Buying illegal alcohol or DVDs helps criminals and perpetuates the problem. It's the same with trafficked women. But the people who are not aiding and abetting are not in any way part of the problem.

I'd like to see prostitution regulated and legal but I'd still be concerned (if I was a man) that the woman I'm sleeping with is there against her will. It's a very legit concern and to make little of it, like some posters have done here, is ridiculous. None of us know the stats as the reliable stats don't exist but there's no denying that it does exist on some level, which makes it seedy as fook.

That's just how I personally feel. Not saying anyone should feel like I do.

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 06:51PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Some women are been advertised as independent when they are actually working for an agency. But even if a woman is working for an agency, that doesn't mean she was coerced, so I agree with what you're saying about the propaganda, but it still wouldn't be easy tell if they're trafficked in every situation.

On the TV3 programme about escorts, it showed a pimp moving women around the country to different apartments, but whether or not they were fooled into thinking they'd get a different job before they came over is another thing.

Let's be honest, it's incredibly unlikely. They knew what they were getting into. If pimps were going to trick them into the business, they may as well not pay them. That would be sex slavery. Sex slavery being in any way common in Ireland is a huge myth.

Speisekarte · 29-06-2013 06:51PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I'd like to see prostitution regulated and legal but I'd still be concerned (if I was a man) that the woman I'm sleeping with is there against her will. It's a very legit concern and to make little of it, like some posters have done here, is ridiculous. None of us know the stats as the reliable stats don't exist but there's no denying that it does exist on some level, which makes it seedy as fook.

That's just how I personally feel. Not saying anyone should feel like I do.

It strikes me as propaganda that so many escorts are trafficked.

I believe a thorough investigation into trafficking in Britain and Germany failed to find any victims. If I find the study I'll provide a link.

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 06:53PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I'd like to see prostitution regulated and legal but I'd still be concerned (if I was a man) that the woman I'm sleeping with is there against her will. It's a very legit concern and to make little of it, like some posters have done here, is ridiculous. None of us know the stats as the reliable stats don't exist but there's no denying that it does exist on some level, which makes it seedy as fook.

That's just how I personally feel. Not saying anyone should feel like I do.

What about the clothes, and other such items you buy? Are you concerned that the people who manufactured them had to do a dreadful job for appalling wages due to lack of better options? Or what about child labour?

There is traditionally a lot of hypocrisy involved in the criticism of the sex industry.

Legs.Eleven · 29-06-2013 07:02PM

Speisekarte wrote: »

It strikes me as propaganda that so many escorts are trafficked.

I believe a thorough investigation into trafficking in Britain and Germany failed to find any victims. If I find the study I'll provide a link.

Yep I'd be interested in that link.

Here's one for you:

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2008/105388.htm

IRELAND (Tier 2)
Ireland is a destination country for women, men, and children trafficked for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor. An academic study by the National University of Ireland Galway and Trinity College concluded that a minimum of 76 victims were trafficked into Ireland for sexual exploitation between 2000 and 2006, and an NGO working with immigrants reported 46 cases of suspected labor trafficking from July 2005 to December 2007. Women from Eastern Europe, Nigeria, other parts of Africa, as well as smaller numbers from South America and Asia, have reportedly been trafficked to Ireland for forced prostitution. Labor trafficking victims reportedly consist of men and women from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt, and the Philippines, although there may also be some victims from South America, Eastern Europe, and other parts of Asia and Africa. An Irish NGO reported that most forced labor victims are found in domestic labor, and restaurant and agricultural work. Unaccompanied minors from various source countries, particularly in Africa, represent a vulnerable group in Ireland that may be susceptible to trafficking and exploitation.
The Government of Ireland does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so. Irish officials have shown considerable political will in combating human trafficking through the drafting of new anti-trafficking legislation, but key deficiencies in the areas of prosecution, protection, and prevention remain.
Recommendations for Ireland: Enact comprehensive anti-trafficking legislation; establish formal policies and procedures to ensure victims are provided with access to protection and assistance in coordination with anti-trafficking NGOs; and implement a visible trafficking demand-reduction campaign in Ireland.

Oh and recently in the news:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/23-children-illegally-trafficked-into-ireland-last-year-report-finds-1.1437095

The Trafficking in Persons Report of the US state department found that 48 trafficking victims were identified in past year and almost half were children.
Of the 48 victims, 23 were children, and 19 of these were being abused in the commercial sex trade.
The Immigrant Council of Ireland has called on the Government to respond to the report.

I'm heading out now so don't have time to do anymore searches but disregarding this issue isn't right. Perhaps the stats have been exaggerated by some groups but the problem is most definitely a real one.

Again I'm not looking for prostitution to be made illegal, I'm looking for it to be strictly regulated but until that happens, there's no guarantee the woman you're sleeping with is there of her own will.

Legs.Eleven · 29-06-2013 07:02PM

fatbatman wrote: »

What about the clothes, and other such items you buy? Are you concerned that the people who manufactured them had to do a dreadful job for appalling wages due to lack of better options? Or what about child labour?

There is traditionally a lot of hypocrisy involved in the criticism of the sex industry.

Yeah I am concerned and I've changed my shopping habits as a result.

I'm not criticising prostitution, I'm criticising the lack of regulation.

To ignore human trafficking is ignorant. Simple.

Legs.Eleven · 29-06-2013 07:04PM

fatbatman wrote: »

Let's be honest, it's incredibly unlikely. They knew what they were getting into. If pimps were going to trick them into the business, they may as well not pay them. That would be sex slavery. Sex slavery being in any way common in Ireland is a huge myth.

Never said it was common but it exists, which makes it LIKELY that someone will sleep with someone trafficked into the country. That's all I'm saying.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 07:07PM

fatbatman wrote: »

Let's be honest, it's incredibly unlikely. They knew what they were getting into. If pimps were going to trick them into the business, they may as well not pay them. That would be sex slavery. Sex slavery being in any way common in Ireland is a huge myth.

You said the same about heterosexual male sex workers, and you were wrong about that too.

Their pimps don't pay them, their pimps simply take their passports until they "pay back" the the money that was spent on giving them what they thought would be a better life.

It helps when you know what you're talking about, but sure just because you're not aware of it or have never experienced it, it doesn't exist and it doesn't happen, right? :pac:

Have you ever been to a Brothel

Comments