Unable to change ownership of car to my name

Shutuplaura · 26-06-2013 01:47AM #1

I've recently bought a car off a second had dealership in the Naas Road. I'll be totally honest and say that I know nothing about cars and this is the first car I've ever bought/owned. The car itself is fine, I've no problems with it. The NCT was up by they renewed it for me etc. When buying my first car I was thinking solely about problems with the car itself so I never considered the legal ownership would become a problem.

The garage never actually sent in the logbook to the Dept of Transport so its not legally in my name. I called the garage and they initially fobbed me off for a few weeks saying that they must have forgotten and they'd do it straight away. Later I called again and the number was disconnected. The company website was down and when I drove down the dealership was gone and the lot had a 'For Rent' sign up.

Anyway I figured its no big deal really, I could just go about it myself. I got the statutory declaration filled out and all of that and sent it off to the Department of Transport. Today I get a letter back saying that "the current owner has responded indicating that the disposal of the vehicle was not authorised." So basically they will not allow me to put the car into my own name because a previous owner was blocking it.

I was concerned to put it mildly so I went to the Gardai and they confirmed that the car hasn't been registered as stolen. They were able to confirm that the licence plate hadn't been cloned either. It still leaves me with a problem. I cannot actually find who the legally registered owner is to talk to them about this. Apart from racking up some toll fees or speeding tickets is there anything else I can do? I have no idea what way to go next. Should I get a solicitor involved. Would they be even able to find the car's legal owner? I have reciepts from the dealership. Did they break the law in some way by failing to register the sale - or passing on a stolen car (potentially).

One last thing - the road tax is now up. Is there anything I can do besides leave the car off the road until this is sorted out?

Cheers in advance!

Caliden · 26-06-2013 09:41AM

Solicitor. End of.

Do you have a receipt as proof of payment?

drunkmonkey · 26-06-2013 09:50AM

Rack up loads of toll charges and parking fines and the owner of the car won't be long making themselves known once the letters start arriving at their house.

I don't think your legally insured to drive the car at the moment as it's not yours, it could put you in a pickle if there's any kind of accident as it's a pretty serious motoring offence.

Larbre34 · 26-06-2013 11:16AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Rack up loads of toll charges and parking fines and the owner of the car won't be long making themselves known once the letters start arriving at their house.

I don't think your legally insured to drive the car at the moment as it's not yours, it could put you in a pickle if there's any kind of accident as it's a pretty serious motoring offence.

Not the case, valid insurance cover does not depend on ownership

drunkmonkey · 26-06-2013 11:17AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not the case, valid insurance cover does not depend on ownership

Are you sure about that, I though you can not insure something you have no legal claim to.

Pov06 · 26-06-2013 11:18AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not the case, valid insurance cover does not depend on ownership

The insured must have an insurable interest on the car which means he/she must be the registered owner of the vehicle.

Shutuplaura · 26-06-2013 11:21AM

Yes, I have a reciept from the now out-of-business dealer, but the car doesn't seem to be in their name. I assume that when someone sells a car to a dealer the dealership becomes the legal owner while its on their forecourt?

I rang Shannon today - they were not much help but took my details and said they'd call me back. Were sympathetic but didn't sound too positive that it would have an easy solution.

bazz26 · 26-06-2013 11:22AM

My understanding is that you must have an insurable interest in the car you are insuring which means you must be the registered owner. Once of the first questions an insurance company will ask you when taking out a policy is "are you the registered owner of the vehicle?".

While you can temporarily transfer your policy over to a new car until registration transfers over to you I would imagine that you would not be able to do it on a permanent basis if the registration doesn't transfer over.

Gumbo · 26-06-2013 11:23AM

affradavit from a solicitor and a letter to shannon will sort it out.

26-06-2013 11:24AM

Yup, from recent hassle with insurance, you must be the registered owner.

Shutuplaura · 26-06-2013 11:32AM

kceire wrote: »

affradavit from a solicitor and a letter to shannon will sort it out.

No, I think it will take more than that - I sent the stautory delcaration which had been witnessed by a solicitor to them tbut the current legal owner still maintains they have an interest in the car. How someone can have an interest in a car, not know where it is and not have reported it stolen is beyond me though.

You are probably right though - a trip to the solicitor is probably the only answer.

I'm not driving so the insurance thing is not an issue at the moment. Can get an insurance refund for the duration its off the road?

Gary ITR · 26-06-2013 11:33AM

Shutuplaura wrote: »

I've recently bought a car off a second had dealership in the Naas Road. I'll be totally honest and say that I know nothing about cars and this is the first car I've ever bought/owned. The car itself is fine, I've no problems with it. The NCT was up by they renewed it for me etc. When buying my first car I was thinking solely about problems with the car itself so I never considered the legal ownership would become a problem.

The garage never actually sent in the logbook to the Dept of Transport so its not legally in my name. I called the garage and they initially fobbed me off for a few weeks saying that they must have forgotten and they'd do it straight away. Later I called again and the number was disconnected. The company website was down and when I drove down the dealership was gone and the lot had a 'For Rent' sign up.

Anyway I figured its no big deal really, I could just go about it myself. I got the statutory declaration filled out and all of that and sent it off to the Department of Transport. Today I get a letter back saying that "the current owner has responded indicating that the disposal of the vehicle was not authorised." So basically they will not allow me to put the car into my own name because a previous owner was blocking it.

I was concerned to put it mildly so I went to the Gardai and they confirmed that the car hasn't been registered as stolen. They were able to confirm that the licence plate hadn't been cloned either. It still leaves me with a problem. I cannot actually find who the legally registered owner is to talk to them about this. Apart from racking up some toll fees or speeding tickets is there anything else I can do? I have no idea what way to go next. Should I get a solicitor involved. Would they be even able to find the car's legal owner? I have reciepts from the dealership. Did they break the law in some way by failing to register the sale - or passing on a stolen car (potentially).

One last thing - the road tax is now up. Is there anything I can do besides leave the car off the road until this is sorted out?

Cheers in advance!

Were they under a bridge at the Red Cow? If so I know where they have set up again, a friend of mine was recently stung by him but has tracked him down

Tigger · 26-06-2013 11:45AM

insurable interest doesn't apply to third party which is the bit they need

_Kaiser_ · 26-06-2013 12:04PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not the case, valid insurance cover does not depend on ownership

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Are you sure about that, I though you can not insure something you have no legal claim to.

Pov06 wrote: »

The insured must have an insurable interest on the car which means he/she must be the registered owner of the vehicle.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, from recent hassle with insurance, you must be the registered owner.

But if you have open drive on your existing policy then you are covered in a case like this - unless of course (like the OP) it's your first/only car.

Gary ITR · 26-06-2013 12:12PM

Would a receipt for the car not be enough for insurable interest though? Even though the OP is not the registered keeper they are still financially interested which is the important thing for insurance?

jinkybhoy · 26-06-2013 12:12PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

But if you have open drive on your existing policy then you are covered in a case like this - unless of course (like the OP) it's your first/only car.

I think you mean "driving of other cars" - open driving means anyone can drive your car.

If car is not registered in OP name and there is an accident - trouble with insurance company - as already said "insurable interest" - not registered in your name - you can't insure it (obviously it's ok while you wait on shannon sending back the new logbook after a sale but in a situation like this that doesn't apply as owner is disputing it)

drunkmonkey · 26-06-2013 12:14PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

But if you have open drive on your existing policy then you are covered in a case like this - unless of course (like the OP) it's your first/only car.

You would need the owners consent, op doesn't have that. It hasn't been reported stolen, that does not mean the owner does not class it as stolen, he merely does not want to get the Gardai involved.

Shutuplaura · 26-06-2013 01:47PM

Gary ITR wrote: »

Were they under a bridge at the Red Cow? If so I know where they have set up again, a friend of mine was recently stung by him but has tracked him down

Yes, thats the guys. In Palmerstown now I hear. I thought the buggers had emigrated!

MidlandsM · 26-06-2013 01:49PM

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Yes, I have a reciept from the now out-of-business dealer, but the car doesn't seem to be in their name. I assume that when someone sells a car to a dealer the dealership becomes the legal owner while its on their forecourt?

I rang Shannon today - they were not much help but took my details and said they'd call me back. Were sympathetic but didn't sound too positive that it would have an easy solution.

was this dealer, now called RAMILLES Car sales??

Gary ITR · 26-06-2013 01:50PM

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Yes, thats the guys. In Palmerstown now I hear. I thought the buggers had emigrated!

Can you remember who you were dealing with?

Aurellia · 26-06-2013 01:59PM

Gary ITR wrote: »

Can you remember who you were dealing with?

I'm looking at a car that's v cheap for the model & milage , and this fella is not reg,d with SIMI has about 10 cars in a lot ....... Buyer beware!

OP ring or ins comp/ broker asap. Get our Dad/big brother to go with u to the relocated garage or the Guards

Good luck !

MidlandsM · 26-06-2013 02:30PM

Aurellia wrote: »

I'm looking at a car that's v cheap for the model & milage , and this fella is not reg,d with SIMI has about 10 cars in a lot ....... Buyer beware!

OP ring or ins comp/ broker asap. Get our Dad/big brother to go with u to the relocated garage or the Guards

Good luck !

being with the SIMI meas nothing.

ringing insurance/broker means nothing.

The gardai can and will do feck all

Shutuplaura · 27-06-2013 10:11AM

Gary ITR wrote: »

Can you remember who you were dealing with?

Yes, I remember the guys name. I'm going to call the new place and ask for him. If I confirm its the same place I'll go over on saturday.

Can I name and Shame?

Thanks for your help everyone!

Gary ITR · 27-06-2013 12:50PM

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Yes, I remember the guys name. I'm going to call the new place and ask for him. If I confirm its the same place I'll go over on saturday.

Can I name and Shame?

Thanks for your help everyone!

What's the initial of his first name?

No Pants · 27-06-2013 02:04PM

In the meantime, feel free to use as many tolled motorways as you like.

frash · 27-06-2013 03:39PM

Please tell me it's not 'Motor Mania' in Palmerstown.

Shutuplaura · 27-06-2013 04:48PM

hi Gary ITR.

I just realized that you were the person who said that these guys are now Motor Mania. That's good to know. Thanks again for that info.

We called up Motor Mania and they denied being linked to Motor city but the guy we talked to was called Eoghan, the same name as the guy from Motor City which seems like a massive coincidence if they are not the same crowd.

Also, I checked the companies registration office and Motor Mania were set up on the 4th of April 2013, just around the time that Motor City closed down.

Did your friend have any luck in getting them to admit that they were the same guys from Motor City or did he/she go there in person to confront them?

frash · 27-06-2013 05:16PM

I bought a car from Motor Mania 2 weeks ago and change of ownership hasn't gone through yet.
They claim to have posted it off but now I'm getting nervous.
Going to send off the RF134 form this evening once I get it signed by guards.

Hope I'm not going to be in the same boat as the OP.

Zcott · 27-06-2013 06:49PM

Sell it back to them.

frash · 27-06-2013 07:45PM

Shutuplaura wrote: »

hi Gary ITR.

I just realized that you were the person who said that these guys are now Motor Mania. That's good to know. Thanks again for that info.

We called up Motor Mania and they denied being linked to Motor city but the guy we talked to was called Eoghan, the same name as the guy from Motor City which seems like a massive coincidence if they are not the same crowd.

Also, I checked the companies registration office and Motor Mania were set up on the 4th of April 2013, just around the time that Motor City closed down.

Did your friend have any luck in getting them to admit that they were the same guys from Motor City or did he/she go there in person to confront them?

was Eoghan the name of the salesman you bought it from?
Have you called into Motor Mania to confirm it's the same person?

EDIT: If you do a "Vehicle Status Enquiry Search" for the car you bought what comes back?
Mine says it was bought by a dealer on 22/05/2013

fasttalkerchat · 27-06-2013 08:18PM

Perhaps there is finance out on the car?
I would get a parking ticket on it and see if that encourages them to deregister it.

Unable to change ownership of car to my name

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