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EU Trying to Regulate E-cigs as Medical Devices

24

Comments

  • #32
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    proof of that harmless nature? I'm not keen on any unusual vapours being wafted in a confined space I have to breath air from!

    The vapour consists of almost 100% water,im on the mobile so can't link anything at the moment but im sure somebody here could.


  • #33
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    Of course not,as I said I vape.Just because it legal to use ecigs indoors doesn't mean we should blow it into other peoples space.

    in fairness i have never seen anyone who uses e cigs " blowing " into others faces - it would be completely the reverse in my opinion

    they tend to be discrete about their use as lots of people dont understand them


  • #34
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Anyone wrote: »
    Liquid for producing vapour in electronic cigarettes, known as e-juice or e-liquid, is a solution of propylene glycol (PG) and/or vegetable glycerin (VG) and/or polyethylene glycol 400 (PEG400) mixed with concentrated flavors, and optionally, a variable percentage of a liquid nicotine concentrate.


    Its safe, you probably consume it in other products
    Well that's the ingredient,as far as im aware that's not what is exhaled (water vapour) could be wrong though


  • #35
    SicklySweet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭SicklySweet


    I'm looking at the ingredients of my juice, and it contains:
    PG (used in asthmatic inhalers)
    VG (Sugar Substitute)
    Nicotine (obviously)
    And natural flavourings.

    No rat poison, tar, CO2, or 1000 of the other stuff. I'll stick to my vaping thanks. Most vapours agree that we'd like to have the juices regulated, but e-cigs as a whole as a medicine? No thanks. The flavours would be so boring too.


  • #36
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    corktina wrote: »
    you oppose government/EU regulation of possibly harmful merchandise?. They are just doing their job, watching out for us.

    No issue with some regulation and labelling, big issue with handing that over to big pharma and the chemists' cartel.

    It is a question of affordable alternatives.
    The 15mg patches of Nicorette in a Dublin city centre pharmacy cost €23 while 105 pieces of the 2mg chewing gum costs €26.98. In British Tesco outlets, meanwhile, the patches cost £14 (€17) while the chewing gum costs £13 (€16), nearly €11 less than exactly the same product in the Republic.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/2008/09/15/a-bitter-pill-to-swallow/


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  • #37
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    Well that's the ingredient,as far as im aware that's not what is exhaled (water vapour) could be wrong though

    Just trying to show whats contained in them, so people dont freak out when they see a plume of vapour.


  • #38
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Safer alternative my arse, there un-regulated, god only knows what people are smoking. They are cigarettes and should be banned, all were doing is getting people off one drug and on to another.
    Saying it's safer or better than people smoking is nonsense, it's akin to saying take up herion its' not as bad as crack.

    God only knows what people are smoking?

    Firstly, it's called vaping, they're not smoking. :)

    Secondly, the ones I sell have an ingredient list. The ingredients are - nicotine, propolyne glycol, vegetable glycerin and a food flavourant. :)

    So, at least when it comes to the ones I sell in work, people DO know what they're inhaling. :)


  • #39
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    in fairness i have never seen anyone who uses e cigs " blowing " into others faces - it would be completely the reverse in my opinion

    they tend to be discrete about their use as lots of people dont understand them

    Agreed,a lot tend to be discreet (especially with mods etc),but there are a few I've seen personally on jaspers and such not giving a flying **** where they blow it.


  • #40
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    proof of that harmless nature? I'm not keen on any unusual vapours being wafted in a confined space I have to breath air from!

    Ban farting too then. Or build some outdoor designated farting zones...


  • #41
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,506 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    So a cigarette company bring out an electronic cigarette and all of a sudden the hundreds of other competitors already in the market are under their control?

    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.


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  • #42
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    There saying now pot can get people off heroin and crack, so i'll go wit the latest medical evidence and say give them pot.


    Yes, "they" tend to say a lot. I have no idea what you are on about other than your limited understanding of drugs and adiction.
    As for making your own, yea it's possible but can you really see smokers going down and doing it themselves i'm sure a few would but the majority just need the nicotine and want it as quick as possible.

    Sorry, what? Do you see smokers going into the newsagent and saying "I don't care what brand, gimme cigs now!!!!" Give smokers credit for a brain.
    As I said i'm an xsmoker, it's easy to look back and see how mad smokers arguments are, it's not something you can understand until your free from nicotine, which vapers aren't. There still in denial, pretty sad really.

    I'm nicotine-free for 3 and half years now. I see friends getting of cigs using vaping. No need for big pharma/big profit to get involved.


  • #43
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Safer alternative my arse, there un-regulated, god only knows what people are smoking. They are cigarettes and should be banned, all were doing is getting people off one drug and on to another.
    Saying it's safer or better than people smoking is nonsense, it's akin to saying take up herion its' not as bad as crack.

    You are a ****ing idiot.


  • #44
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.

    I'm neither a vaper nor a smoker anymore, and I still think you're talking rubbish. :pac:


  • #45
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.

    You were a vaper? Vaping and smoking are not the same. Thats the problem you have, you assume they are the same.


  • #46
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.

    You still seem to be in some form of rage about it. Could you try listening?


  • #47
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.

    It shows nothing that they're backing ecigs,it shows that they're trying to compete if anything.Theres no point discussing because you're talking rubbish.


  • #48
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,506 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Esoteric_ wrote: »
    I'm neither a vaper nor a smoker anymore, and I still think you're talking rubbish. :pac:

    Your a eCigs seller, that makes you impartial, carry on.


  • #49
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You asked for evidence that eCigs are backed by Big Tobacco, I gave you the evidence then you dismiss it's value.

    There's absolutely no point discussing anything with any smoker (vaper) in this thread because there they exact same as smokers when it comes to denial and I should know I was one.

    so your individual experience is a template for everyone who does smoke , has smoked or uses a vap ?

    you do know that the e cig comes in 0% nicotine dont you ??
    the majority of people i know who stopped smoking went from vapes using nicotine to using ones with 0%
    so , go on, argue that one


  • #50
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Your a eCigs seller, that makes you impartial, carry on.

    No, it makes me somebody who needed a job and took what was offered, rather than sit on my hole on the dole.


  • #51
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Sigh, where would you like me to start, Would one of the biggest players in the world convince you're been had for a second time http://www.reynoldsamerican.com/
    eCigs are not a cottage industry by any means, people who use ecigs are psychotic if they think there off smokes just because it's an eCig, there still addicted to nicotine.

    http://ecigone.com/e-cigarette-news/reynolds-test-markets-vuse-e-cigarette/

    Very much johnny-come-lately.
    Hon Lik, a Chinese pharmacist, is widely credited[8][9][10] with the invention of the first generation electronic cigarette.[11] In 2000, he came up with the idea of using a piezoelectric ultrasound-emitting element to vaporise a pressurized jet of liquid containing nicotine diluted in a propylene glycol solution.[12] This design produces a smoke-like vapour that can be inhaled and provides a vehicle for nicotine delivery into the bloodstream via the lungs. He also proposed using propylene glycol to dilute nicotine and placing it in a disposable plastic cartridge which serves as a liquid reservoir and mouthpiece. These inventions are the basis of the present-day electronic cigarettes.

    The device was first introduced to the Chinese domestic market in May 2004 as an aid for smoking cessation and replacement. The company that Hon Lik worked for, Golden Dragon Holdings, changed its name to Ruyan (如烟, literally "Resembling smoking"), and started exporting its products in 2005–2006[13] before receiving its first international patent in 2007.[14]


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  • #52
    DaveDaRave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭DaveDaRave


    Being addicted to nicotine is fine. Its if you get your nicotine fix with tobacco that the cancer problems arise. Nicotine is harmless.


  • #53
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    DaveDaRave wrote: »
    Being addicted to nicotine is fine. Its if you get your nicotine fix with tobacco that the cancer problems arise. Nicotine is harmless.

    Errm. No it isn't. But alternative delivery systems have a role in harm reduction.
    Vaping 0% Nicotine is probably harmless.


  • #54
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The Irish health minister was speaking to reporters after today’s meeting of health ministers, where member states agreed to a ban on menthol cigarettes – which will come into effect only if it is signed off by MEPs.

    Reilly wants ministers to go further and ban slim and electronic cigarettes around the EU too – but could not reach a unanimous agreement on either ban today.

    The minister insisted, however, he would not give up his fight – paraphrasing the ‘Governator’ as he spoke.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3bQQAm9v3Y


    What a clown.. fcuking embarrassing stuff


  • #55
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    DaveDaRave wrote: »
    Being addicted to nicotine is fine. Its if you get your nicotine fix with tobacco that the cancer problems arise. Nicotine is harmless.

    its not harmless , it can raise your heart rate and blood pressure , but it does not keep either at a high rate , it drops when the nicotine leaves your system ,

    but compared to normal smokes it would be fair to call it harmless.

    and my cardiologist agrees with me


  • #56
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    its not harmless , it can raise your heart rate and blood pressure , but it does not keep either at a high rate , it drops when the nicotine leaves your system ,

    but compared to normal smokes it would be fair to call it harmless.

    and my cardiologist agrees with me

    Mine advised NOT taking up my relationship with nicotine again. I had felt cigs helped my concentration, he thought the heart disease in my family advised against it.


  • #57
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    So how about this EU.

    Ban ALL Tobacco products.
    Subsidise top-quality vaping alternatives.

    Dare ya.


  • #58
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Vaping eh? What flavour?

    Strawberry?
    Blackcurrant?
    Orange?
    Rhubarb? (For TBM)


  • #59
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,506 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    MadsL wrote: »
    Mine advised NOT taking up my relationship with nicotine again.

    This is why I have the rage, it's was one of the biggest struggles i've ever had getting off Nicotine and twice in the last few weeks i've been walking through shopping centres and have been asked if i'd like to try a smoke, it has me so so annoyed and just in case you think i'm just saying that I started a rage thread a few days ago.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056975047 These vape dealers are scum trying to get everyone addicted. They need to be regulated and shut down. eCigs have there place but yet again the Irish have taken it to the Max.


  • #60
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    MadsL wrote: »
    Mine advised NOT taking up my relationship with nicotine again. I had felt cigs helped my concentration, he thought the heart disease in my family advised against it.

    Mine said that if you are going to continue "smoking" that this is the best route to go , he was not endorsing it , but he did point out it has to be much safer than actually smoking due to the removal of the 3000 other chemicals ,

    i have first hand of experience of the result of smoking , i had 2 heart attacks at the age of 37 , my main artery was 100% blocked with plaque caused by smoking
    vapeing does not produce this plaque - it might harm you in other ways , but not in the way and speed that real smokes do

    hands down , vapeing is safer than smoking - the EU are nuts if they ban this device - it is helping people quit , and the ones that are not quitting but chose to vape , they are still not smoking

    win win - trust the authoritys to go **** a good thing up


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  • #61
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    This is why I have the rage, it's was one of the biggest struggles i've ever had getting off Nicotine and twice in the last few weeks i've been walking through shopping centres and have been asked if i'd like to try a smoke, it has me so so annoyed and just in case you think i'm just saying that I started a rage thread a few days ago.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056975047 These vape dealers are scum trying to get everyone addicted. They need to be regulated and shut down. eCigs have there place but yet again the Irish have taken it to the Max.

    Wow...just wow.

    vape dealers offering an affordable alternative, that doesn't involve €25 a pop for gum, nor €200-300 for Champix is = to scum.

    Wow.


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