Eamon Gilmore thinks it's "reasonable" to target Special needs students?

Zebra3 · 20-06-2013 11:16PM

Sergeant wrote: »

An emotive and politically-charged attack against one of the most genuine and passionate Social Democrats in the Dail.

Don't insult our intelligence with bs like that.

Gilmore sold his soul (if he had one) to get into power. He is nothing more now than a lackey for the elite ensuring they get back their gambling losses at the expense of the Irish people.

Have a look at the pictures in the book "The Lost Revolution-The Story of the Workers Party" and there's Gilmore at a Communist Youth jamboree in Havana.

Eamon, you've come along way baby.

You and your party will be wiped out at the next general election.

Hope the Mercs and perks were worth it.

NuckingFacker · 20-06-2013 11:22PM

Sergeant wrote: »

An emotive and politically-charged attack against one of the most genuine and passionate Social Democrats in the Dail. You'd think that Gilmore, Quinn and Burton arrive into their office everyday to make decisions that rile people.

Big auld brass neck on a FF head to be going on about the 'vunerable'. Good to see the SF deputy recite the 1916 constitution though. Passionate stuff I'm sure.

This has to be viewed through the filter of Sergeant being a member of FG. Not exactly a detatched opinion. As far as my own opinion goes, I believe eamon Gilmore makes some very smooth noises, he certainly does his best to talk the talk, sadly he fails to walk the walk.

The day he emerged from opposition must have been the worst moment in his life. I genuinely believe he went home and held his head in his hands. Left there in opposition, dispensing meaningless soundbites, he could have waffled his way through to retirement with his usual smooth, somwhat hypocritical penache. Thrust into actual power, his lack of any real conviction is blatently apparent. Both FG and Labour make great hurlers on the ditch. Sadly, they are absolutely brutal when actually on the pitch. I relish the day when Joe Higgins gets booted to the fore with the instruction "go on so..." That will end his career as well.

BTW, a Mayo friend was telling me yesterday that Kenny is currently utterly shunned and rejected in his home-town. Good enough for him.

martic · 20-06-2013 11:23PM

Today's Leaders questions for anyone interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXKzhp3XrrE

Sergeant · 20-06-2013 11:33PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Don't insult our intelligence with bs like that.

Gilmore sold his soul (if he had one) to get into power. He is nothing more now than a lackey for the elite ensuring they get back their gambling losses at the expense of the Irish people.

Have a look at the pictures in the book "The Lost Revolution-The Story of the Workers Party" and there's Gilmore at a Communist Youth jamboree in Havana.

Eamon, you've come along way baby.

You and your party will be wiped out at the next general election.

Hope the Mercs and perks were worth it.

Really enjoyed that book as it happens. It's wonderful to see how the pragmatists and realists decided to become social democrats. They will leave a legacy. No smoke without fire for some of them, but at least they make no bones about it.

The loony side of the movement ended up printing pamphlets that about 5 people read. And meeting in Barry's Hotel. At least they had a couple of goons in balaclavas fire a round over their grave when they died as proud comrades of Ireland.

EoghanIRL · 20-06-2013 11:44PM

I watched the entire thing today . I am not a fan of labour or eamon Gilmore but it seems people in this thread have a selective memory and are including only the facts that support their arguments . The so called normal students get cuts too . There are no cuts to the 1.3 billion euros spent on special needs assisted education each year . There is only a 12 per cent reduction in working hours for the assistants . The number of assistants is increasing and there is a 60 per cent increase in the amount of money spent on special education since 2007 which was the heights of the economic boom.

At the Bottom line , cuts need to be made in education . If you don't make this cut , then where do you suggests the cuts should be made ? If make cuts directed at the so called normal students people will also complain since all students have equal rights . Hard decisions have to be made and they are not going to make everyone happy.

Banjo String · 20-06-2013 11:46PM

Sergeant wrote: »

Really enjoyed that book as it happens. It's wonderful to see how the pragmatists and realists decided to become social democrats. They will leave a legacy No smoke without fire for some of them, but at least they make no bones about it.

Eamons 'legacy' will be the annihilation of his party in the local, then general elections.

He's abandoned every grass root principle he.and the Labour party supposedly stood for. Larkin will be spinning inn his grave.

Certainly not what I'd choose to be remembered by.

danger mouse · 20-06-2013 11:49PM

SamHall wrote: »

Eamons 'legacy' will be the annihilation of his party in the local, then general elections.
Certainly not what I'd choose to be remembered by.

Well I hope he reads this as there is about 20 of us in the 1 family in different constitutions across the country that will never vote labour again because of this.

FoxT · 21-06-2013 12:03AM

He highlighted the 1916 Proclamation’s pledge to cherish all the children of the nation equally

This blows a hole in the 'special needs' argument. If all children are being cherished equally, then children with 'special needs' should surely be treated the same as others?

It also misses another important point. Schools cater for the mainstream. Those who are gifted, and also those who are handicapped, are failed to some extent. Both gifted and handicapped children have special needs, if they are to meet their potential.

I somewhat resent the term 'Special Needs'. It has been misappropriated to apply only to those children who have learning or behavioural difficulties, and excludes those at the other end of the spectrum, who are equally as valuable.

-FoxT

mikom · 21-06-2013 12:20AM

SamHall wrote: »

As someone with an immediate family member with special needs, I think Eamon should hang his head in shame.

What next? Target ethnic minority kids?

They have essentially disregarded the Proclamation’s pledge to cherish all the children of the nation equally.

The sooner Eamon is resigned to the history books the better.

Ah, Eamon and the Missus cherish all the children.......... shur didn't they sell a two-and-a-half acre field to them for €525,000.

THE wife of Labour leader Eamon Gilmore was paid €525,000 by the Department of Education for a site for a new school that is now worth less than €100,000.

Educationalist Carol Hanney, who is chief executive of Dun Laoghaire VEC, sold the two-and-a-half acre site she inherited from her late mother to the Office of Public Works on behalf of the Department of Education.

"Education is something we have to see as an investment," Mr Gilmore told RTE Radio.

His own deputy leader -- finance spokeswoman Joan Burton -- last year hit out at "property tycoons" who made "a mountain of money" from selling school sites.

And it emerged yesterday that the site -- located on the Loughrea side of Killimor village -- was not even the preferred initial location for the national school.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gilmore-wife-got-525000-for-school-site-now-worth-just-100000-26695748.html

Sergeant wrote: »

Yes; because I'd rather have my social democrats sit in Government, and make difficult decisions based on economic reality and pragmatism.

This is a fine and competent Government. It's an honour to have intellectuals like Quinn and Shatter sit at Cabinet. Truly reforming.

Trolololol

Scruffles · 21-06-2013 03:41AM

FoxT wrote: »

I somewhat resent the term 'Special Needs'. It has been misappropriated to apply only to those children who have learning or behavioural difficulties, and excludes those at the other end of the spectrum, who are equally as valuable.

-FoxT

have personaly seen special needs being recognised as also including kids who are under the label of gifted often from various countries as have used a lot of disability forums/fb groups, gifted children and LD childen are worth as much as other,the amount of money one group gets shoud never imply more worth, but in the case of LD there likely needs to be more money due to the need for many group & one to one [higher in some students cases] support assistants and regular training on behavioral management, disabilities, restraining, communication alternatives etc, whereas with gifted children,the teachers woud need training knowing how to work with the particular group and the costs of tougher work but am guessing it woud be no way near close to the costs of the LD group.

'special needs' as a label has thankfuly been on its way out for a while anyway,many people in the disability community prefer to use the term 'additional needs', it means what it says and lacks the connotations and utter patronisation of 'special' needs,plus gifted kids woud probably find people judging them a lot less for being under this label.

fishy fishy · 21-06-2013 09:36AM

i can't really comment fairly on this because every time I see that gilmore person I want to throw up. he is the most uncharasmatic, robotic, uncomfortable, boring, non-believable irish politician I ever had the misfortune to lay eyes on. Wouldn't believe a word out of his mouth.

As for Labour in general - a lost cause.

but on the bright side - sure isn't the jfk flame in ireland now - shure will ye stop complaining.

Yitzhak Rabin · 21-06-2013 09:49AM

There have to be cuts! Thats the reality. The amount of resources pumped into special needs since the early 2000's is massive. A 10% reduction in hours comes on the back of a massive increase in spending in the area over the past decade.

One of the posters was asking earlier how a teacher is supposed to teach a class of 30 with only one SNA.... eh, maybe like it was done when I was in school, when there was no such thing as SNAs.

Sergeant · 21-06-2013 09:54AM

SamHall wrote: »

Larkin will be spinning inn his grave.

Jesus, is every Irish 'martyr' and socialist spinning in his grave? Pearse, Connolly, Larkin must be getting tired of all this spinning they have to do.

fishy fishy · 21-06-2013 09:56AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

There have to be cuts! Thats the reality. The amount of resources pumped into special needs since the early 2000's is massive. A 10% reduction in hours comes on the back of a massive increase in spending in the area over the past decade.

One of the posters was asking earlier how a teacher is supposed to teach a class of 30 with only one SNA.... eh, maybe like it was done when I was in school, when there was no such thing as SNAs.

okay frank mccourt

Knine · 21-06-2013 10:00AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

There have to be cuts! Thats the reality. The amount of resources pumped into special needs since the early 2000's is massive. A 10% reduction in hours comes on the back of a massive increase in spending in the area over the past decade.

One of the posters was asking earlier how a teacher is supposed to teach a class of 30 with only one SNA.... eh, maybe like it was done when I was in school, when there was no such thing as SNAs.

Yeah there was no such thing as SNA's & kids with special needs were locked away.

Now let me see, recalling the last budget we had cuts to respite grant, cuts to home care package, increases in medical costs, cuts to ESB, telephone allowance, housing cuts..........

The most vulnerable in society is taking the brunt of the cuts and that says a lot about us as a society.

Banjo String · 21-06-2013 10:08AM

Sergeant wrote: »

Jesus, is every Irish 'martyr' and socialist spinning in his grave? Pearse, Connolly, Larkin must be getting tired of all this spinning they have to do.

After your description of Gilmore and shatter, you'll understand that I take your judgment of character with a pinch of salt.

Banjo String · 21-06-2013 10:24AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

There have to be cuts! Thats the reality. The amount of resources pumped into special needs since the early 2000's is massive. A 10% reduction in hours comes on the back of a massive increase in spending in the area over the past decade.

One of the posters was asking earlier how a teacher is supposed to teach a class of 30 with only one SNA.... eh, maybe like it was done when I was in school, when there was no such thing as SNAs.

Jesus wept.

Went to school in the bare feet I bet, had to walk 6 miles uphill in both directions?
Got up so early it was still the day before?

Were those three days when a child with special needs was merely considered 'odd' or 'a bit slow' sent off to remedial class to paint pictures?

allibastor · 21-06-2013 10:32AM

Labor are the biggest joke of a party going if ever there was one. They seem to have no real grasp on reality at all. Eamon Gilmore i dont think has ever worked a real job in his life. they seem to view things as just figures that are dreamed up by someone in a civil job.

I laugh eveytime labor come out with something new, I mean Joan Burton cutting back to education for people during summer as they shoudl be able to find a jon with ease, yeah cause the other 420k people on the dole are only dossing there. Eamon Gilmore should be run out, as should Fat Pat Rabbitte

Yitzhak Rabin · 21-06-2013 10:34AM

SamHall wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Went to school in the bare feet I bet, had to walk 6 miles uphill in both directions?
Got up so early it was still the day before?

Were those three days when a child with special needs was merely considered 'odd' or 'a bit slow' sent off to remedial class to paint pictures?

No, I was driven to school by our houskeeper most mornings, and walked during the good weather, but it was only about half a mile.

My opinion is that for the input that is put into SN Education, the output doesn't always justify it. Huge resources can be poured into the area, and often the societal gain isn't proportional at all.

Knine · 21-06-2013 10:46AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

No, I was driven to school by our houskeeper most mornings, and walked during the good weather, but it was only about half a mile.

My opinion is that for the input that is put into SN Education, the output doesn't always justify it. Huge resources can be poured into the area, and often the societal gain isn't proportional at all.

So the amount of money spent on disability should be in proportion to their contribution to society?

Well my child with additional needs contributes a hell of a lot more to society then ignorant people exactly like you.

Femme_Fatale · 21-06-2013 10:48AM

Knine wrote: »

Yeah there was no such thing as SNA's & kids with special needs were locked away.

Huh? The introduction of SNAs is quite a new development - the '90s at the earliest. People with special needs were not being locked away in the '90s.

Knine · 21-06-2013 10:52AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Huh? The introduction of SNAs is quite a new development - the '90s at the earliest. People with special needs were not being locked away in the '90s.

Exactly like the new development where children with special needs are educated in main stream, strangely enough around the same time as the introduction of SNA's.

Weevil · 21-06-2013 11:17AM

Will all these children, soon to be going short of time with SNAs, be given the option of sitting their childhood again when the economy gets off the floor. I ask this because I suspect the long-term effects of cutbacks on ordinarily performing children will be a lot less than on the former.

Zebra3 · 21-06-2013 11:19AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

There have to be cuts!

While repaying private gambling losses of billions of euro?

Gerry T · 21-06-2013 11:34AM

Just playing devils advocate, I myself have a child with dyslexia and has resource teacher support and its great that she gets this help.

But the education sector is seeing budget cuts, because the country doesn't have as much money to go around. So everywhere gets cut. My child gets less support now than before so we have ended up paying for out of school education support ourselves, which we struggle to pay.

Just because special needs children need additional help doesn't mean that they can get it. Why don't teachers take a big pay cut, then the school system could pay for additional teachers. Put the school system on a semester system and teachers could work a 9-5 365 with 25 days holiday for the same pay. Then each student would get far more contact hours. I just don't see why a minority group can cry that they are being picked on. They are not -- everyone is being picked on WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. I don't think its reasonable to take the position that being a minority group that's a good enough excuse to expect special treatment i.e. you don't get a budget cut.

It would be great to see the education system properly funded, each child deserves the chance to develop to their full potential. Society as a whole will benefit from that. One way of looking is the opportunity is there, but parents are possibly going to have to pay for it themselves.

Morag · 21-06-2013 12:10PM

bluewolf wrote: »

What exactly is he targetting if there were no cuts?

There is a freeze on the number of SNA, which means as more kids qualify the need for one they are shifting the positions around the country and those with the greatest need get them and those whole qualify and have had one are having them removed.

While there are no cuts per se, it is a reduction in services.

conorhal · 21-06-2013 12:39PM

Morag wrote: »

There is a freeze on the number of SNA, which means as more kids qualify the need for one they are shifting the positions around the country and those with the greatest need get them and those whole qualify and have had one are having them removed.

While there are no cuts per se, it is a reduction in services.

I don't even think that it's entirely the cuts that are prompting the outrage, but the barefaced manner in which they are spun, cut's? What cuts?.

If Glib-more's pants bust into flame, he'd calmly stand there telling you that they were not in fact on fire, but becoming chemically altered as part of a 'transformation process',and even though his pants were now melted to his lardy arse, the fact that they are still keeping it covered means that they are still effectively functioning as trousers.

I can't understand why we so blithely accept the spin they produce.

fishy fishy · 21-06-2013 12:41PM

conorhal wrote: »

I don't even think that it's entirely the cuts that are prompting the outrage, but the barefaced manner in which they are spun, cut's? What cuts?.

If Glib-more's pants bust into flame, he'd calmly stand there telling you that they were not in fact on fire, but becoming chemically altered as part of a 'transformation process',and even though his pants were now melted to his lardy arse, the fact that they are still keeping it covered means that they are still effectively functioning as trousers.

I can't understand why we so blithely accept the spin they produce.

excellent post

conorhal · 21-06-2013 12:57PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

excellent post

Ta, the ability of Gilmore and this whole government in general to talk out of both sides of their mouth enfuriates me, as does the fact that the Irish media and public swallow his BS so unquestioningly. It seems that practicing guile on the Irish people is like stealing candy from disabled babies, the only area in which Glib-more is adept.
He spins so fast in fact, that if we could just find some way to wire that fat fool into the national grid, he may at least finally be of some use to the nation as a source of renewable energy.

I notice that this story about how his spin landed him in trouble yesterday and casued the German negociator to resign from the EU budget negociations seems to have 'disappeared' from the news cycle:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0620/457817-eu-budget-eamon-gilmore/

Uriel. · 21-06-2013 01:15PM

conorhal wrote: »

Ta, the ability of Gilmore and this whole government in general to talk out of both sides of their mouth enfuriates me, as does the fact that the Irish media and public swallow his BS so unquestioningly. It seems that practicing guile on the Irish people is like stealing candy from disabled babies, the only area in which Glib-more is adept.
He spins so fast in fact, that if we could just find some way to wire that fat fool into the national grid, he may at least finally be of some use to the nation as a source of renewable energy.

I notice that this story about how his spin landed him in trouble yesterday and casued the German negociator to resign from the EU budget negociations seems to have 'disappeared' from the news cycle:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0620/457817-eu-budget-eamon-gilmore/

Is that the case though? Particularly in respect of the people. I'd consider t really to be largely a matter of acceptance. Most people accept (not like) that public spending must be cut and revenue must be raised to bridge the gap in the public finances.

In my view you can't really get around that, and I have said this before on here, but really, in this country we haven't really seen hardship at a large scale. You should see Greece (I mean actual everyday life in Greece, not media coverage) and see the impact of cuts and tax raising measures there at a large scale.

Times are difficult, there's no doubt about it and even depressing a lot of the time, but really, we aren't doing too bad in general considering the economic environment we are in.

Eamon Gilmore thinks it's "reasonable" to target Special needs students?

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