Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Its about developing a squad. Would you commend Kidney for how he managed the Munster squad while they were at their peak.

No, quite frankly the opposite. Look at the state he left them in.

And what a coincidence, he's left Ireland in the same situation in several positions.

I think people are making sense.... I also agree that there's no need for rotation just for the sake of rotation. Ideally, you start with your strongest team in the big matches (and Schmidt did that with Leinster).

But when a player is coming to the end of their career, and there is no obvious replacement, I'd prefer a player be eased in, than just thrown in the deep end (which sometimes works, don't get me wrong). If Cave plays with a full-strength team against someone like Scotland...we'll be able to see if he's able to make the step up to international standard.


In fairness, when BOD was injured before, Earls filled in at 13 and did quite well. McFadden wasn't as impressive there, but I don't think he's ever been a 13 really, even if he's played there quite a bit.

trouttrout wrote: »

All of these under a terrible coach. With the right game plan we have the personal to be winning these games comfortably

Maybe so, but I think Scottish rugby is going somewhere good. Glasgow are a strong club side and Edinburgh had their (albeit somewhat bizarre) extended run in the HEC two years ago. Add in their quality expats and they have a reasonably good playing panel. They looked well coached in the Six Nations (although they have now lost Ryan) and Cotter will significantly improve them when he joins. I wouldn't take Scotland lightly and think they'll cause a few upsets in the coming years.

Italy could also be useful if they could finally find a a test quality fly half and goal kicker.

Samoa will be Schmidt's first match so I can't imagine he'll leave out his best players. Remember the absurd hysteria when he lost his first few matches for Leinster - if Ireland lose or play badly in the Autumn series we'll see that nonsense multiplied tenfold.

As someone (maybe Priscilla Unkempt Tackle said), it seems to take Schmidt a little while to get his team playing the style he wants, so logically he will work with his core players in his initial matches. It would be daft to leave his best player or players out of the side in his first matches IMO.

Regardless of whether you think Kidney was a terrible coach, he was simply not a great coach (post-2009 at least). In that same period Schmidt has proven himself to be an actively outstanding coach, Leinster had some great players but he had them playing almost as good as they could possibly play. He could have just been a "good" coach and achieved half of what he did and people would still be praising him, but he was an outstanding coach. There is a medium and Kidney possibly falls in there but he's gone so it's irrelevant, I really really can't wait until Schmidt's first game.

matTNT wrote: »

Absolute trash. Kidney was many things; conservative being the most damning indictment and perhaps didn't try enough young players but he was not a terrible coach.

It's ok,he's gone,you don't have to pretend he's good anymore for the sake of supporting the team.

He commanded the respect of his players

Do you honestly think the players respected him?He inherited a brilliant team,got them playing well for a year and then,after that,expected them to play an old style of rugby in a rapidly evolving game.While they were at their clubs,learning to play a better style of rugby than what Kidney could coach,he was sitting in Carton House,preparing his post-match "Moral victory" interview.

he delivered a grand slam after 61 years in the waiting

We shouldn't be proud of having only one Grand Slam.That's not enough for a team that had such talented players.Any team can do one Grand Slam.Had he won another 6 Nations,had he gotten past the Quarter Finals,then maybe we could be proud of this team's achievements.Look at where Wales have gone since winning their Grand Slam.The way Ireland has regressed,we may as well have lost the bloody thing.

developed a solid game plan with the Irish side.

Solid?More like boring,uninspired,ineffective rubbish.


God I'm glad Kidney's gone.

matTNT wrote: »

So out of his many years in coaching you disagreed with 3 things in 3 years and you label him a terrible coach? I reiterate, if he was a terrible coach the players would have had him sacked.

His record is the best of any Irish coach of the pro era. He was a very good coach, who made some tactical errors in 2 years of his management, that is all.

Your first point is nonsense. Like saying that if you are good at breaking, parking and changing gear that there is only three things wrong with your driving.

I'm pretty sure that Kidneys win loss ratio would challenge the veracity of your second point.

Garseys wrote: »

So who do you think Schmidt will go for as replacement outhalf? Madigan or Jackson? (Sexton starting of course).

Madigan is in the driving seat IMO. Schmidt wasn't the Head Coach over the last fortnight but Madigan starting was no accident.

It will be interesting this season. Jackson should be more settled this year, Madigan will be the #1 Out-Half at Leinster and Keatley will be the #1 Out-Half at Munster.

How each of them cope in high-profile inter-pros and Heineken Cup fixtures will be a great sub-plot to the season

bilston wrote: »

Madigan will rightly be favourite, however Jackson has played very well for Ulster since the HEC Q/F and I have a feeling that his chastening Six Nations experience (where he wasn't nearly as bad as some would have you believe) will really stand to him in the future. I think we forget just how young he is!

Anyway talking of Kidney it did occur to me this morning that looking at the Lions team we are the second best represented side with 4 starters and if Tommy Bowe was fit it would have been 5 starters. Initially I thought to myself I wonder what the English and particularly the Scots think about that given they both beat us and finished higher than us and then it occurred of the five players mentioned above, only two of them were fit for the whole Six Nations. Two missed the whole tournament and one missed every game (or most of it in the case of the English match) we lost or drew.

Whatever you think of Kidney I really do think it's a bit unfair to judge him on the last Six Nations results because we were missing many of our best players.

His time was up but even Joe Schmidt would have struggled with that sort of luck in 2013.

Not to get back into this old stuff again but it's Kidney's fault we didn't have backup for those injured players who had meaningful game time at international level.

Also, I don't think anyone is judging him on the last Six Nations results alone, that was only the exclamation point on years of poor selections, squad building, tactics etc.

Lelantos wrote: »

Fast Forward 4 years.
God I'm glad Schmidt is gone, let the Rog era begin!

All coaches have a sell by date. Schmidt will be no different.

Could anyone remind me who we got in our Pool for the 2015 WC again?

Was it France & Argentina and others...? ta