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what exactly are G8 Protesters protesting about?

245678

Comments

  • #32
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    68Murph68 wrote: »
    And is the G8 working to make the world a better place or a worse place?
    Of course they are not planning to make the world a worse place.

    All of the leaders at the G8 want a better world, but you have to acknowledge two basic points.

    1. That the G8 leaders (quite understandably,but improperly) put the welfare and interests of their own people ahead of those of other, lesser nations (e.g. drone attacks in Pakistan). Similarly, the constitutional and human rights of their own citizens take precedence over those citizens of 'lesser' nations.

    2. That not everybody has the same understanding of how the world can be a better place. I have no doubt that the 8 leaders want a better world. But they probably have 8 different beliefs of what constitutes a better world, just like the protestors down the road. This is all perfectly normal, and in that sense protesting is just a normal interaction of the people with their authorities.


  • #33
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Sergeant wrote: »
    As a means of trying to justify in their own heads' the utter failure of their stupid political ideologies.

    Compared to the utter failure of the system that led to massive debts that have been socialised?
    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    Your usual hodge-podge of lefties....

    You guys should form a double act.

    I presume you'll be organising a counter-protest?

    No? Yeah. Just keep on bitching from your arm-chairs


  • #34
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic that the (supposedly) anti-authoritarian Libertarians

    Nanny state conservatives is what they are. They're just too stupid to see their own hypocrisies until they pointed out and then they crawl back into the shadows and start rocking and sucking their thumbs again.


  • #35
    Jesus Hallowed Dashboard
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Jesus Hallowed Dashboard


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic that the (supposedly) anti-authoritarian Libertarians on boards, become apologists for authority when it comes to protesting and economic issues..

    I've hardly seen any of them post in here.
    Besides which, libertarian doesn't mean "agree with everybody"
    Of course they can go and protest if they like - it doesn't mean nobody is allowed to say a word against them


  • #36
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I've hardly seen any of them post in here.
    Besides which, libertarian doesn't mean "agree with everybody"
    Of course they can go and protest if they like - it doesn't mean nobody is allowed to say a word against them
    A lot of the regulars on this type of topic are usually Austrian or Libertarian-leaning, even if not outright stated; you get a mix of that, and the more authoritarian conservatives.

    This topic isn't a matter of disagreement either: The entire thing people are criticizing protestors about, is their (the people complaining about protesting) ignorance about what people are protesting about.


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  • #37
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Unlike other periods in history we now have the potential to change all of that.

    I think we've always had the potential to stop wars and feed people. Always.
    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Of course not.

    But it would be a lot worse if nobody ever bothered their ass protesting.

    Would it really though? What has protesting achieved so far?


  • #38
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The G8 is responsible for perpetuating a debt based financial system to their own benefit and at the expense of everyone else's.
    Show me individual at one of these summits who has personally lost everything as a result of the economic crisis? No? Didn't think so.


  • #39
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    MagicMarker wrote: »

    Would it really though? What has protesting achieved so far?

    Seriously? For example...The Peasant's Revolt of 1381, the French Revolution, The American Revolution, The civil rights movement in the USA, the international Labour movement... Take your pick... Jesus.


  • #40
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Seriously? For example...The Peasant's Revolt of 1381, the French Revolution, The American Revolution, The civil rights movement in the USA, the international Labour movement... Take your pick... Jesus.

    This. The only thing worse than the "we shouldn't be protesting" brigade is the "protesting accomplishes nothing" brigade.


  • #41
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Will their protest stop war or famine? So, technically they are losers
    I loled hard at that one! :D


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  • #42
    utyh2ikcq9z76b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    20,000 children day die everyday from hunger related causes, if thats not worth protesting about,what is?


  • #43
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    I think we've always had the potential to stop wars and feed people. Always.

    We haven't really due to the fact that most people throughout history have been subsistence farmers dependent on the whims of the seasons, relationship with their lord etc. It was only in the age of mass industrialisation and advanced mechanised farming that we have had the chance to produce enough to adequately feed all of our population.


  • #44
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Lane Juicy Putter wrote: »
    20,000 children day die everyday from hunger related causes, if thats not worth protesting about,what is?
    But you are fully aware that this kind of protest feeds nobody. Concrete action and cold hard cash, is the ticket.


  • #45
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ^ Then maybe there's hope that some day reality will catch up with potential?
    I find it absolutely ridiculous that whether or not we are "prosperous" or not has almost nothing to do with what we're physically capable of creating in terms of food, clothes, etc, and more to do with the whims of an entirely artificial mathematical construct invented by humans to govern trade. It makes literally no sense whatsoever. If we have to same capacity today to produce as much food as we did in 2008 then why are more people hungry today? Evidence if any was needed that the problem is not grounded in reality at all, but in the system of money and banking that we choose to rely on.


  • #46
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ^ Then maybe there's hope that some day reality will catch up with potential?
    I find it absolutely ridiculous that whether or not we are "prosperous" or not has almost nothing to do with what we're physically capable of creating in terms of food, clothes, etc, and more to do with the whims of an entirely artificial mathematical construct invented by humans to govern trade. It makes literally no sense whatsoever. If we have to same capacity today to produce as much food as we did in 2008 then why are more people hungry today? Evidence if any was needed that the problem is not grounded in reality at all, but in the system of money and banking that we choose to rely on.
    Yea this really sums up the truly bizarre situation we find ourselves in, and that a lot of people actually spend time defending:
    Economic teaching is so wrong and deluded on a fundamental level today, that people can actually credibly argue you should permanently waste enormous amounts of productive potential, by leaving huge swathes of workers unemployed, resources they could work with left idle, and useful things they could do, left undone.

    In 100 years, people will look back on how we ran economies today, and will view it as (next to religion perhaps) one of the most historically stupid and harmful examples, of ideology trumping rationality, and holding back the world (causing totally unnecessary widespread suffering in the process).


    It's really obvious and simple when you think about it:
    When you have anything less than full employment, you are wasting resources and running at less than 100% economic capacity; that is automatically a massive failure of basic economic goals, which is all (when it comes down to it) about allocating resources in an efficient way.

    Economic ideology today (including the mainstream theories), is almost entirely politicized now and aimed at favouring right-wing politics, with the goal of trying to fool people into believing any and all steps that could restore full employment, are wrong and will lead to disaster; it's bullshít, touted for political purposes, by those who stand to gain from economic turmoil.


  • #47
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    This. The only thing worse than the "we shouldn't be protesting" brigade is the "protesting accomplishes nothing" brigade.

    Are they not the same brigade?


  • #48
    OneArt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    are dey not prostein bou a mountain or somethin


  • #49
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    Some of them are protesting about unemployment, having recently got the g8 themselves.


  • #50
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Yea this really sums up the truly bizarre situation we find ourselves in, and that a lot of people actually spend time defending:
    Economic teaching is so wrong and deluded on a fundamental level today, that people can actually credibly argue you should permanently waste enormous amounts of productive potential, by leaving huge swathes of workers unemployed, resources they could work with left idle, and useful things they could do, left undone.

    In 100 years, people will look back on how we ran economies today, and will view it as (next to religion perhaps) one of the most historically stupid and harmful examples, of ideology trumping rationality, and holding back the world (causing totally unnecessary widespread suffering in the process).


    It's really obvious and simple when you think about it:
    When you have anything less than full employment, you are wasting resources and running at less than 100% economic capacity; that is automatically a massive failure of basic economic goals, which is all (when it comes down to it) about allocating resources in an efficient way.

    Economic ideology today (including the mainstream theories), is almost entirely politicized now and aimed at favouring right-wing politics, with the goal of trying to fool people into believing any and all steps that could restore full employment, are wrong and will lead to disaster; it's bullshít, touted for political purposes, by those who stand to gain from economic turmoil.
    And yet every centrally planned economy that has been tested has been a failure. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Anyway have a look through this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle#Explanations


  • #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    .............

    I presume you'll be organising a counter-protest?

    No? Yeah. Just keep on bitching from your arm-chairs


    There was actually a counter-protest from some loyalists the other day. Bizarre, but there we go.


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  • #52
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Seriously? For example...The Peasant's Revolt of 1381, the French Revolution, The American Revolution, The civil rights movement in the USA, the international Labour movement... Take your pick... Jesus.
    IIRC the protesters got Barabas released instead


  • #53
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    Money dude. $$$$$$$$

    It's the cause of all problems and should be destroyed, and a new barter system to replace it.

    Even though nobody want to swap a set of car tyres for some smelly crusty dude to bang really loud on steel drums.


  • #54
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    And yet every centrally planned economy that has been tested has been a failure.
    And how has the market economy worked out for the rest of the world?

    I find it amazing that leaders can convince some people to ignore famine, wars over resources, social deprivation, and the exploitation of individuals for (almost laughably) esteemed reasons like 'economic freedom', or 'economic justice', or progress, which are really just abstractions in the subjective collective mind.

    They mean nothing, yet they make some people feel good, or important, or 'chosen' for being on the right side of the plan.

    And if the populace is made to feel good about this particular economic model, a huge number of people can be allowed to suffer to our heart's content.
    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    wow, is that original? you should write that down on paper.


  • #55
    Nitochris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭Nitochris


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    And yet every centrally planned economy that has been tested has been a failure. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Anyway have a look through this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle#Explanations

    Not every alternative is a centrally planned economy.


  • #56
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    And how has the command economy worked out for the rest of the world?

    I find it amazing that leaders can convince some people to ignore famine, wars over resources, social deprivation, and the exploitation of individuals for (almost laughably) esteemed reasons like 'economic freedom', or 'economic justice', or progress, which are really just abstractions in the subjective collective mind.

    They mean nothing, yet they make some people feel good, or important, or 'chosen' for being on the right side of the plan.

    And if the populace is made to feel good about this particular economic model, a huge number of people can be allowed to suffer to our heart's content.

    wow, is that original? you should write that down on paper.

    Can you give me an example of a planned centralised economy that has worked so I can put it in my notebook? Because the 100 or so implementations and iterations so far ended up with economic stagnation at best, and wide-scale genocide at worst.

    Of course the old adage that 'they never implemented it like Marx set it out' is often used. You'd think that one of them would have made a better effort though.


  • #57
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    And how has the command economy worked out for the rest of the world?

    I find it amazing that leaders can convince some people to ignore famine, wars over resources, social deprivation, and the exploitation of individuals for (almost laughably) esteemed reasons like 'economic freedom', or 'economic justice', or progress, which are really just abstractions in the subjective collective mind.

    They mean nothing, yet they make some people feel good, or important, or 'chosen' for being on the right side of the plan.

    And if the populace is made to feel good about this particular economic model, a huge number of people can be allowed to suffer to our heart's content.
    Wow talk about going off on a tangent. But just so you know cons of the free market does not equal pros for a command economy.


  • #58
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nitochris wrote: »
    Not every alternative is a centrally planned economy.
    What are they?


  • #59
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Sergeant wrote: »
    Can you give me an example of a planned centralised economy that has worked so I can put it in my notebook? Because the 100 or so implementations and iterations so far ended up with economic stagnation at best, and wide-scale genocide at worst.

    I'm not necessarily advocating a centrally planned economy. I'm criticizing hero-worship of the market economy by people who do not recognize its appalling and brutal failures.

    Of course, if you criticize injustice around most people the usual reaction is I don't know what's happening so you must be a Communist.


  • #60
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I'm not necessarily advocating a centrally planned economy. I'm criticizing hero-worship of the command economy by people who do not recognize its appalling and brutal failures.

    Of course, if you criticize injustice around most people the usual reaction is I don't know what's happening so you must be a Communist.
    A command economy is a centrally planned economy.


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  • #61
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    I wrote that quickly, I mean market economy, which you can guess from the context.


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