Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Mahatma Geansai · 13-06-2013 09:31PM

Not sure how happy I am with that team. Mike Sherry dropping out for Cronin - who didn't even make the squad - is disappointing, but he might he one of the players to catch a bug. Boss playing again is a wasted opportunity to see if one of the other lads is up to it. In the backline, the centre partnership is slow and absent of any spark, but I'm happy to see Downey get a cap. The back three isn't the most exciting we'll field, but I'd imagine its composed of the three hardest working backs in the country.

thomond2006 · 13-06-2013 10:00PM

What is the point of playing Boss in both games?

Buer · 13-06-2013 10:07PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

What is the point of playing Boss in both games?

One would have to assume Marmion is one of the ill players given his absence from both match day squads. I assume the rationale is that it's more important to develop an outhalf on this tour than give Paul Marshall a start in the light of him being very unlikely to ever feature in a proper game. Marshall makes a great impact on a game when you need to create something from nothing but I wouldn't want any developing outhalf to play outside him from the off.

Fireball07 · 13-06-2013 10:18PM

Quite irritating that Marmion didn't start in the first test now... if he is indeed one of the sick players.

thebaz · 13-06-2013 10:23PM

think this will be a very close match , Ireland need to be at ther best to win

Canada will be very physical , and Boss is good in these type of games , plus his experience will be invaluable in a tight game, I can see why Marmion is not risked.

sydthebeat · 13-06-2013 10:34PM

thebaz wrote: »

think this will be a very close match , Ireland need to be at ther best to win

Canada will be very physical , and Boss is good in these type of games , plus his experience will be invaluable in a tight game, I can see why Marmion is not risked.

Agreed, and on the downey selection, the canadians are big powerful men. They have two centres over 100 kg and one who's about 6 1/2 foot and 125 kg.
Perhaps we're simply seeing a team selection to win the match....

ScissorPaperRock · 13-06-2013 10:36PM

I wonder what Joe Schmidt's input has been.

bilston · 13-06-2013 10:48PM

thebaz wrote: »

think this will be a very close match , Ireland need to be at ther best to win

I think we'll lose to be honest. In saying that usually when I feel like that, whether it be Ireland or Ulster, the team I'm supporting usually turns it on so fingers crossed.

dtpc191991 · 13-06-2013 10:58PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I wonder what Joe Schmidt's input has been.

Unless its illness then its not in selection. There is an article in the Irish Times where he comments on how much he likes the look of Olding and Henshaw.

its_phil · 13-06-2013 11:15PM

Marmion isn't sick he was training yesterday and at Niagara Falls according to Inpho.

Baffling is the only word. He should have been left at home resting. He started 28 games last year and three weeks more rest would have served him better than most. If he wasn't going to be getting a cap he should have been left at home.

What's the point of playing a 33 year old ahead of a 23 year old who could be around for three more World Cups?

Buer · 13-06-2013 11:24PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I wonder what Joe Schmidt's input has been.

According to him this week, he has purely been in the camp as an observer and has no input into the selection yet.

Beery Eyed · 13-06-2013 11:29PM

Buer wrote: »

According to him this week, he has purely been in the camp as an observer and has no input into the selection yet.

If that's the case, it must be incredibly hard for a guy like him to bite his tongue and not have a say about selections. Especially considering that he'll be the one seeing the benefits (or lack thereof) of the backups/younger guys getting exposure on the tour

Fireball07 · 13-06-2013 11:33PM

If Marmion is fit, I'm very annoyed.

irishbucsfan · 13-06-2013 11:34PM

its_phil wrote: »

Marmion isn't sick he was training yesterday and at Niagara Falls according to Inpho.

Baffling is the only word. He should have been left at home resting. He started 28 games last year and three weeks more rest would have served him better than most. If he wasn't going to be getting a cap he should have been left at home.

What's the point of playing a 33 year old ahead of a 23 year old who could be around for three more World Cups?

He'll be rested when he comes back. The experience will have been fantastic for him. And he got a chance to play in front of Schmidt.

Not a chance he would have wanted to stay at home resting.

mohawk · 13-06-2013 11:42PM

Why bring Sherry and give him 4 mins against the Eagles??? We all know what Cronin brings.

Pity for Marmion, but I guess the number 2 OH will be brought up to speed faster with someone he has played alongside before.

trouttrout · 14-06-2013 12:47AM

Sherry and Marmion should feel very pissed off if they're not sick. He only got four minutes last week despite Strauss having a mare with his darts and now he drops completely out of the squad

totallegend · 14-06-2013 07:25AM

trouttrout wrote: »

Sherry and Marmion should feel very pissed off if they're not sick. He only got four minutes last week despite Strauss having a mare with his darts and now he drops completely out of the squad

TBH, I'm not that concerned about either Sherry or Marmion. Both would be 4th choice in a fully-fit side so it's not like we need them to get game-time asap.

What does irk me a little bit is Mike Ross starting both tests; if there's a position in which we need depth, it's most definitely TH prop - Hagan finished the season like a train and if Fitzpatrick is fit, they should give him game time before he gets injured again, so I would really like to have seen them start one game each.

Both the Times and the Indo this morning are saying the whole squad was available for selection...

Leslie91 · 14-06-2013 09:57AM

totallegend wrote: »

TBH, I'm not that concerned about either Sherry or Marmion. Both would be 4th choice in a fully-fit side so it's not like we need them to get game-time asap.

What does irk me a little bit is Mike Ross starting both tests; if there's a position in which we need depth, it's most definitely TH prop - Hagan finished the season like a train and if Fitzpatrick is fit, they should give him game time before he gets injured again, so I would really like to have seen them start one game each.

Both the Times and the Indo this morning are saying the whole squad was available for selection...

If this is true (and I'm not sure it is) then not playing someone instead of Boss is a joke. Also starting Mike Ross is a waste, I'd love to have seen Hagan get the start. I am in agreement ref Sherry too, yes he might be 4th choice hooker but I wouldn't mind seeing him tested at a decent level. Glad to be seeing TOD getting a run. Roll on Schmidt time!.

Buer · 14-06-2013 10:38AM

If that is really true, there are some genuinely awful selections that will not benefit the team in the long or short term. None of Boss, Downey or Ross should be in consideration for the starting XV. Downey and Boss are particularly ridiculous selections considering both are getting on and not in consideration for the full side with two highly promising youngsters out there.

Tox56 · 14-06-2013 10:55AM

Buer wrote: »

If that is really true, there are some genuinely awful selections that will not benefit the team in the long or short term. None of Boss, Downey or Ross should be in consideration for the starting XV. Downey and Boss are particularly ridiculous selections considering both are getting on and not in consideration for the full side with two highly promising youngsters out there.

If it is true part of me really really hopes the stuff about Schmidt only being an observer is also true.

shuffol · 14-06-2013 12:22PM

I wonder if its a case of Kiss being fearful of the result and his own reputation.

thebaz · 14-06-2013 12:23PM

Leslie91 wrote: »

If this is true (and I'm not sure it is) then not playing someone instead of Boss is a joke. Also starting Mike Ross is a waste,

do we not want to win match ? A tight physical match is ideal for Boss - and if Canada are a big physical team we need Ross - playing Marmion , is a risk , if he has a bad game in a tight game , it will do him more harm than good.

Fireball07 · 14-06-2013 01:59PM

totallegend wrote: »

TBH, I'm not that concerned about either Sherry or Marmion. Both would be 4th choice in a fully-fit side so it's not like we need them to get game-time asap.

Whatever about Sherry (who will be assessed by Schmidt, I'm sure), I'd have Marmion much higher than 4th. In fact.....based on form from last season, I'd say he's the no. 2 SH behind Murray. Now whether he's capable of bringing that performance to the international stage over international veterans like Reddan, I don't know..... but he should have been given the chance to prove himself.

totallegend · 14-06-2013 02:03PM

Canada team:

15. James Pritchard (Bedford Blues)
14. Matt Evans (Cornish Pirates)
13. Ciaran Hearn (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock)
12. Harry Jones (Capilano/BC Bears)
11. Taylor Paris (SU Agen Lot-et-Garonne)
10. Nathan Hirayama (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears)
9. Phil Mack (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears)
1. Hubert Buydens (Saskatoon Wild Oats/Prairie Wolf Pack)
2. Ray Barkwill (Niagara Wasps/Ontario Blues)
3. Jason Marshall (Atlantique Stade Rochelais/BC Bears)
4. Jebb Sinclair (London Irish)
5. Tyler Hotson (London Scottish)
6. Tyler Ardron (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues)
7. John Moonlight (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues)
8. Aaron Carpenter (Cornish Pirates) (capt)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Hamilton (Capilano/BC Bears)
17. Andrew Tiedemann (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack)
18. Doug Wooldridge (Lindsay/Ontario Blues)
19. Jon Phelan (Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue/Atlantic Rock)
20. Nanyak Dala (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack)
21. Sean White (James Bay AA/BC Bears)
22. Nick Blevins (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack)
23. Connor Braid (Doncaster Knights/BC Bears

molloyjh · 14-06-2013 02:21PM

Tox56 wrote: »

If it is true part of me really really hopes the stuff about Schmidt only being an observer is also true.

Given his Kidney-esque use of the bench against the USA I'd imagine this really is all Kiss. The sooner he is moved out of this role and back into defense the better IMO.

its_phil · 14-06-2013 02:25PM

thebaz wrote: »

do we not want to win match ? A tight physical match is ideal for Boss - and if Canada are a big physical team we need Ross - playing Marmion , is a risk , if he has a bad game in a tight game , it will do him more harm than good.

Sure we want to win but I don't see the balance of winning and losing being based on Boss playing.

I've never bought that argument that it can damage players unless it is throwing them completely way in over their heads. But Canada is not over Marmions head (all short jokes aside

). I do believe you learn more in defeat than victories though.

Even if he did have a bad game, he'd probably learn more and that he needs to step it up another notch. Marshall too. Instead Marmion has just been a glorified waterboy for this tour. A real shame.

I might add, I do like Boss but when you have two good young scrumhalves on a tour of North America, surely they should be playing with the bigger picture in mind.

ScissorPaperRock · 14-06-2013 02:25PM

I think Schmidt was supposed to take a more 'hands-on' role for the Canada match though. Maybe the illness in camp put paid to that plan though.

molloyjh · 14-06-2013 02:28PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I think Schmidt was supposed to take a more 'hands-on' role for the Canada match though. Maybe the illness in camp put paid to that plan though.

He has said a few times that he is there to observe only. I doubt he's getting involved. That would only serve to wind up Kiss who is going to be his defense coach from July onwards.

ScissorPaperRock · 14-06-2013 02:38PM

molloyjh wrote: »

He has said a few times that he is there to observe only. I doubt he's getting involved. That would only serve to wind up Kiss who is going to be his defense coach from July onwards.

Found the article I was thinking of, but I guess there are no direct quotes from Schmidt or Kiss saying that he would have a more hands-on role.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/incoming-coach-joe-schmidt-to-take-hands-on-role-during-second-week-of-north-american-tour-1.1409285

Mahatma Geansai · 14-06-2013 02:47PM

I'm not much of a fan of Kiss'. Ever since he started double-jobbing, everything he is responsible for has gone to crap. His period as a head-coach appears to be following suit. Even a great performance against Canada won't hide the poor selections and use of the bench. Hopefully Schmidt hasn't been involved in any of the selection.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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