Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Misguided Heroes.

Options
  • 12-06-2013 10:24PM
    #1
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭


    There are many examples of people throughout history who are seen as heroes by people who admire what they did. From Caesar to Armstrong.

    Yet they turn out to be fundamentally flawed.

    For example, I remember watching Motorcycle Diaries about the life of Che Guevara. It was a wonderfully evocative piece of cinema. I then did some reading about the chap. Turns out he was rather different than the romanticised portrayal shown in the movie. A cold-hearted and vindictive murderer. Over 4000 people died without fair trial in prison camps he administered. He was personally responsible for acts of torture and death.

    Yet he has managed to become a poster-child and an iconic figure planted on many a cheap sweatshop manufactured t-shirt.

    Any other examples of people who you feel don't deserve the badge of 'hero' that has been placed upon them?


«134567

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Mother Teresa, seen as saint when she was anything but.

    I doubt you'll find many revered heroes or notable figures in history who don't have some kind of a dark side, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.


  • Options
    #3
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,616 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Chesley Sullenberger,modern day hero.


  • Options
    #4
    PizzamanIRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭PizzamanIRL


    Enrique Iglesias.


  • Options
    #5
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    The 1916 rebels. Worshipped in Ireland with plenty of streets and buildings named after them.

    Completely undemocratic and deluded romantasists. Caused huge damage to the capital and its people in a move that had little support. They would be brandished as terrorists today, and rightly so.


  • Options
    #6
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    krudler wrote: »
    Mother Teresa, seen as saint when she was anything but.

    welll shes no...... oh ...

    they'll probably have to come up with a new name for that phrase

    joan of arc?, florence nightengale? or were they cunts too :(


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    PizzamanIRL wrote: »
    Enrique Iglesias.

    foo fighters


  • Options
    #8
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Every US president since 1945 would have been hanged if they were subject to the same standards that were applied to the Nazis at Nuremberg.

    Stick that up your Che Guevara hole.


  • Options
    #9
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    The 1916 rebels. Worshipped in Ireland with plenty of streets and buildings named after them.

    Completely undemocratic and deluded romantasists. Caused huge damage to the capital and its people in a move that had little support. They would be brandished as terrorists today, and rightly so.

    Lifted straight from the Kevin Myers revisionist Ladybird book for 2 to 4 year olds.


  • Options
    #10
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    krudler wrote: »
    one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

    It's a widely used phrase, but not one that stands up to any type of scrutiny. I fail to see how shooting a 21 year old through the head in a Havana prison -without trial - is in any way an act of 'freedom fighting'. It's the final and tragic ending of a young life.


  • Options
    #11
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Thought the thread title was 'misguided torpedoes' and immediately thought of the ship that torpedoed itself :o


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Sergeant wrote: »
    It's a widely used phrase, but not one that stands up to any type of scrutiny. I fail to see how shooting a 21 year old through the head in a Havana prison -without trial - is in any way an act of 'freedom fighting'. It's the final and tragic ending of a young life.

    South America has suffered greatly at the hands of US imperialism. Tens of thousands have been murdered by regimes and death squads directly trained and supported by the US.

    What do you have to say about that?

    Nothing?

    Yeah. Keep spouting your bull****.

    Nobody with half a brain is taking it seriously anyway, but do go on.


  • Options
    #13
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Bill Clinton. And his wife. Hillary.


  • Options
    #14
    Dimithy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    South America has suffered greatly at the hands of US imperialism. Tens of thousands have been murdered by regimes and death squads directly trained and supported by the US.

    What do you have to say about that?

    Nothing?

    Yeah. Keep spouting your bull****.

    Nobody with half a brain is taking it seriously anyway, but do go on.

    And that makes what Che did better somehow?


  • Options
    #15
    playadeldick
    Site Banned Posts: 14 ✭playadeldick


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    South America has suffered greatly at the hands of US imperialism. Tens of thousands have been murdered by regimes and death squads directly trained and supported by the US.

    What do you have to say about that?

    Nothing?

    Yeah. Keep spouting your bull****.

    Nobody with half a brain is taking it seriously anyway, but do go on.

    I'm taking him seriously. The man is talking a lot of sense. Are you claiming that I have less than half a brain? You appear to be getting emotional, as evidenced by your use of expletives. Perhaps this topic is too sensitive for you.


  • Options
    #16
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Lifted straight from the Kevin Myers revisionist Ladybird book for 2 to 4 year olds.

    I don't know what book you're talking about, but any chance you'd counter the point?

    I don't see what is heroic about undemocratic (the democratic IPP won 84 out of 105 of the available seats, clearly indicating the people of Ireland wanted home rule, and not Sinn Féins insurrectionist policies) storming the national post office and holding a city to siege?


  • Options
    #17
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,919 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Sergeant wrote: »
    There are many examples of people throughout history who are seen as heroes by people who admire what they did. From Caesar to Armstrong.

    Yet they turn out to be fundamentally flawed.

    For example, I remember watching Motorcycle Diaries about the life of Che Guevara. It was a wonderfully evocative piece of cinema. I then did some reading about the chap. Turns out he was rather different than the romanticised portrayal shown in the movie. A cold-hearted and vindictive murderer. Over 4000 people died without fair trial in prison camps he administered. He was personally responsible for acts of torture and death.

    Yet he has managed to become a poster-child and an iconic figure planted on many a cheap sweatshop manufactured t-shirt.

    Any other examples of people who you feel don't deserve the badge of 'hero' that has been placed upon them?

    Which Armstrong?Lance Or Neil


  • Options
    #18
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Dimithy wrote: »
    And that makes what Che did better somehow?

    No. But let's try to put a little context around it.


  • Options
    #19
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    I don't know what book you're talking about, but any chance you'd counter the point?

    Do you support the inherent violence of empire and colonialism?

    No? Then how can you condemn those who fight against it without giving yourself dissonance headaches?


  • Options
    #20
    playadeldick
    Site Banned Posts: 14 ✭playadeldick


    Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims. To get himself killed, and to get a lot of other people killed, was central to Che's imagination. In the famous essay in which he issued his ringing call for "two, three, many Vietnams," he also spoke about martyrdom and managed to compose a number of chilling phrases: "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …"— and so on


  • Options
    #21
    Dimithy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    No. But let's try to put a little context around it.

    Seems like you're trying to excuse it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,191 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Gandhi was supposed to be a right old racist when it suited him.


  • Options
    #23
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    kowloon wrote: »
    Gandhi was supposed to be a right old racist when it suited him.

    Hand he slept beside young girls to test himself?


  • Options
    #24
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Dimithy wrote: »
    Seems like you're trying to excuse it.

    Excuse what?


  • Options
    #25
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Do you support the inherent violence of empire and colonialism?

    No? Then how can you condemn those who fight against it without giving yourself dissonance headaches?

    There were plenty of people fighting it. Their names were Isaac Butt, Charles Stewart Parnell a John Redmond. They were the ones who had the people's support.

    The other crowd consisted of men like Padraig Pearse who fantasised about bloodshed and boys arses.


  • Options
    #26
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    krudler wrote: »
    Mother Teresa, seen as saint when she was anything but.

    I doubt you'll find many revered heroes or notable figures in history who don't have some kind of a dark side, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

    I have to say I only learnt of what Mother Teresa was really like in a recent thread on boards.

    Amazing what you learn in school and the media and then with a little research you realise just how wrong they were. She sounded like a right piece of work.


  • Options
    #27
    Dimithy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Excuse what?

    The actions of Che Guevara.


  • Options
    #28
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    I think there's a bit of a bandwagon going re Mother Teresa. She still did a lot more to help the poor and sick than most others did. And under extremely difficult circumstances in a hell-hole like Calcutta.


  • Options
    #29
    Dimithy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    I think there's a bit of a bandwagon going re Mother Teresa. She still did a lot more to help the poor and sick than most others did. And under extremely difficult circumstances in a hell-hole like Calcutta.

    Doing good doesn't absolve you of your wrongdoings.


  • Options
    #30
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    There were plenty of people fighting it. Their names were Isaac Butt, Charles Stewart Parnell a John Redmond. They were the ones who had the people's support.

    It's quite possible that we'd have ended up as a poor backwater region, like Scotland only with added Glasgow, if they'd have continued to pursue change from within the empire.
    The other crowd consisted of men like Padraig Pearse who fantasised about bloodshed and boys arses.

    Not so thinly veiled 'gay people should be subject to ridicule' comment. How noble.
    Dimithy wrote: »
    The actions of Che Guevara.

    What actions?

    Allow me to pull you along by your nose into my trap.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,216 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    kneemos wrote: »
    Chesley Sullenberger,modern day hero.

    When he could have got the plane down on a runway, and salvageable without risking life. Americans love a "hero" though.


Advertisement
Advertisement