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High Court moron forces ISP's to block Torrent sites

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sherlock want to get IMRA's c*ck out his ass and do something useful for this country for a change.


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    #63
    SilverScreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭SilverScreen


    marshbaboon wrote: »
    RIP illegal downloading. 1999-2013.
    The Irish Government's crackdown on illegal downloading will be as effective as their crackdown on drugs.

    Even if they block PirateBay there's always Isohunt and countless other torrenting sites. It's like when the US cracked down on Megaupload and Mediafire and other file-sharing sites became more popular as a result and took their place.


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    #64
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    AntiRip wrote: »
    You're so right. I've even moved away from torrents, well indirectly anyway. They are much better ways and it's changing all the time. I do think it may be a good thing to make it harder for the non tech savy folk. Even my grandmother can use torrents :) . Then they might leave us alone :)

    May I ask what methods you find more "tech-savvy" than torrents? Genuine question.


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    #65
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    They've even started going after Usenet :(

    You got a source for that? They do issue takedowns alright to the larger providers but not I've read anything where they are seeking to block them. It would be just as pointless anyway - they'd have to go after vpn providers too and that will never happen. Dual use legislation would take precedence here - it's been used before for technology.


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    #66
    tupac_healy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    SamHall wrote: »
    You wouldn't steal a car......


    If it was physcally possible to download a car (I know it would take ages!!!!!!) I would!!!!


    Is it JUST the piratebay?


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    #67
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    SamHall wrote: »
    You wouldn't steal a car......



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    #68
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    Prodigious wrote: »
    Ask unsigned artists what they think of piracy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZUSn7I-zNo

    You do not need piracy for exposure.


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    #69
    tupac_healy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Prodigious wrote: »
    May I ask what methods you find more "tech-savvy" than torrents? Genuine question.

    I'd be somewhat techy but I'd like to know the same, via pm if you wish!!


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    #70
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    tupac_healy wrote: »
    I'd be somewhat techy but I'd like to know the same, via pm if you wish!!

    It's been mentioned already - usenet + vpn (optional)


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    #71
    Downlinz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    McLoughlin wrote: »
    Eircom blocked thepiratebay.com site but hasn't blocked the other thepiratebay site so bit pointless really

    The irony in all this is its the uninformed trying to censor access to material from the informed. They clearly don't understand the alternate ways to access tpb or the dozens of sites that provide the exact same service and most importantly that censoring information on the internet is impossible. The only thing they can do as with China is to make it more difficult for the uninformed to go places they don't want them to go.

    The other irony is all the free tpb advertising they're giving them.


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    #72
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    SilverScreen wrote: »
    The Irish Government's crackdown on illegal downloading will be as effective as their crackdown on drugs.

    Even if they block PirateBay there's always Isohunt and countless other torrenting sites. It's like when the US cracked down on Megaupload and Mediafire and other file-sharing sites became more popular as a result and took their place.

    I think you're missing the point. Blocking "The Pirate Bay" was a test case as it is the most high profile torrenting site. This sets a precedent and the rest of the torrenting sites will also be blocked without legal challenge from now on.

    All it would take is one man browsing the web creating a list of torrenting sites, or sites that facilitate torrenting and getting those blocked to put a stop to most of the online piracy in Ireland.


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    #73
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    You do not need piracy for exposure.

    No, but it certainly helps. Look at "The Promo Bay" for instance. How many million people are accessing underground music thanks to these "evil pirate". Underground artists live off exposure - if that means piracy, why not?
    Immortal Technique's first track on his new album was "Burn This", instructing the listener to copy it and distribute it to all their friends.


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    #74
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    mike65 wrote: »
    Seriously? The product has a price, do you rob a telly or laptop if its too expensive?

    Not even close to the same thing.


    And anyway, i was referring to the many different ways that they operate their business.

    For example - any one of these stories.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-30-cd-settlement_x.htm
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/sony-hikes-whitney-houston-album-prices-online-84420
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080820/0204472040.shtml
    http://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

    The list of dirty tactics they use is endless. As is the list of Artists that have been ripped off.


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    #75
    AntiRip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    Orion wrote: »
    It's been mentioned already - usenet + vpn (optional)

    Yes. Also seedboxes and seedbox sites such as put.io and furk where they will download to their servers and you can download then through http.


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    #76
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Allyall wrote: »
    Not even close to the same thing.


    And anyway, i was referring to the many different ways that they operate their business.

    For example - any one of these stories.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-30-cd-settlement_x.htm
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/sony-hikes-whitney-houston-album-prices-online-84420
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080820/0204472040.shtml
    http://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

    The list of dirty tactics they use is endless. As is the list of Artists that have been ripped off.

    I think people are forgetting that record companies take a huge punt on different bands. For every band that is signed by a record company and successful, there may be tens that aren't. There are a lot of upfront costs with promotion that are not recoupable if the band fails.

    Its the same reason why prescription drugs under patent are so expensive, the few successful ones have to pay for the many many more that were duds in addition to generating a profit.


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    #77
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,304 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I think you're missing the point. Blocking "The Pirate Bay" was a test case as it is the most high profile torrenting site. This sets a precedent and the rest of the torrenting sites will also be blocked without legal challenge from now on.

    All it would take is one man browsing the web creating a list of torrenting sites, or sites that facilitate torrenting and getting those blocked to put a stop to most of the online piracy in Ireland.

    You really think that every file sharing site could be blocked?

    :o


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    #78
    AntiRip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    You really think that every file sharing site could be blocked?

    :o

    They were talking of a list of 260 sites a few months ago.


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    #79
    Downlinz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I think you're missing the point. Blocking "The Pirate Bay" was a test case as it is the most high profile torrenting site. This sets a precedent and the rest of the torrenting sites will also be blocked without legal challenge from now on.

    All it would take is one man browsing the web creating a list of torrenting sites, or sites that facilitate torrenting and getting those blocked to put a stop to most of the online piracy in Ireland.

    If it ever becomes difficult to find unblocked torrent sites people will use proxies to access them. They can't block ports because of the legitimate uses, they can't do anything other than change the go-to piracy medium from one form to another. We've been at this for 15 years now since shutting down Napster was "the end of piracy".
    The business model for media has changed with the internet, there's no going back as much as they want to struggle against it.


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    #80
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,304 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    AntiRip wrote: »
    They were talking of a list of 260 sites a few months ago.

    Drop in the ocean

    Píssing into the wind

    etc


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    #81
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    Prodigious wrote: »
    No, but it certainly helps. Look at "The Promo Bay" for instance. How many million people are accessing underground music thanks to these "evil pirate". Underground artists live off exposure - if that means piracy, why not?
    Immortal Technique's first track on his new album was "Burn This", instructing the listener to copy it and distribute it to all their friends.


    With Spotify and the thousand of music sites around now there isn't a need for this practice. I suspect if all of Immortal Techniques fans were to pirate his record he might wonder why he released it in the first place.


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    #82
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    You really think that every file sharing site could be blocked?

    :o

    No I don't. The idea is to prevent casual piracy by the less technically inclined - which counts for the majority of online piracy. It would be impossible to prevent many posters here from pirating material because of their technical knowledge, if we were to retain a usable internet.

    Simply blocking websites would be enough to prevent casual piracy imo.

    The idea that the ISP's are against this is also nonsense. What they are against is being singled out as it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. If it applies across the board to all they won't care. In fact they might welcome it as it will reduce the strain on their networks.


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    #83
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/music_industry


    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones


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    #84
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    AntiRip wrote: »
    They were talking of a list of 260 sites a few months ago.

    where should I put this big red star, camaraderie?

    http://theredstarvanguard.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/mao-propaganda-posters1.jpg


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    #85
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Orion wrote: »
    You got a source for that? They do issue takedowns alright to the larger providers but not I've read anything where they are seeking to block them. It would be just as pointless anyway - they'd have to go after vpn providers too and that will never happen. Dual use legislation would take precedence here - it's been used before for technology.

    I meant the takedowns and nzbmatrix.

    I remember when you didn't have to worry about that stuff.


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    #86
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Its a pointless waste of time the internet was designed to be unblockable. Only way to take down a site is to take down the server hosting it and thats it. Block it the normal way and people will just detour around the block. Music industry failed to adapt to the times and lost out and cant deal with it. No sympathy for the kiddy/granny suing industry anyways.


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    #87
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/music_industry

    Fattest pigs are getting fatter.


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    #88
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I think people are forgetting that record companies take a huge punt on different bands. For every band that is signed by a record company and successful, there may be tens that aren't. There are a lot of upfront costs with promotion that are not recoupable if the band fails.

    Its the same reason why prescription drugs under patent are so expensive, the few successful ones have to pay for the many many more that were duds in addition to generating a profit.

    I can guarantee you that their profits heavily outweigh their losses.

    As for the upfront costs with promotion etc.. They don't really do that anymore, It costs next to nothing with most people "discovering" music on the internet.
    The only ones that get heavily promoted are the likes of Bieber, gaga, Beyonce etc..

    They don't take a "Huge Punt" either. They pay less than a píss in all of the oceans in comparison to their profits.
    Yes, it may be quite possible that more bands fail, than are successful. But when they are successful they pay for 20 bands (more).

    There are also Hundreds (Thousands) of bands with 'Mediocre' Success. Even they are very profitable for the record Companies.

    Bands that don't have much success would be used in events all over the place (Country/Planet - Depending on audience) until the Record Companies recoupe their money, with a profit. Then drop them.
    There are not any record companies operating on a loss that i know of.


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    #89
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    I'm tempted to start my own torrent site here in Sherlock territory just to see how long it would take for them to block me


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    #90
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9irV8DWcc


    Thank god the likes of Mariah will still be able to live the life she's accustomed to.


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    #91
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Allyall wrote: »
    I can guarantee you that their profits heavily outweigh their losses.

    As for the upfront costs with promotion etc.. They don't really do that anymore, It costs next to nothing with most people "discovering" music on the internet.
    The only ones that get heavily promoted are the likes of Bieber, gaga, Beyonce etc..

    They don't take a "Huge Punt" either. They pay less than a píss in all of the oceans in comparison to their profits.
    Yes, it may be quite possible that more bands fail, than are successful. But when they are successful they pay for 20 bands (more).

    There are also Hundreds (Thousands) of bands with 'Mediocre' Success. Even they are very profitable for the record Companies.

    Bands that don't have much success would be used in events all over the place (Country/Planet - Depending on audience) until the Record Companies recoupe their money, with a profit. Then drop them.
    There are not any record companies operating on a loss that i know of.

    Not very many businesses will be around for long if they operate at a loss. Record companies are entitled to charge whatever they want for records, and they are entitled to pay artists as little as they want. Its the market that sets the price of records and artists pay. If it wasn't desirable to be signed, then artists wouldn't work with record companies, so they must be offering something worthwhile. If its too expensive people won't buy them. However if something is too expensive, people do not have the entitlement to steal it, and companies have the right to operate in a market that isn't distorted by illegal activity.

    All record companies are not behemoths like Sony, EMI etc, but smaller operations. Many record companies fail.

    To return to my drug company example. For every successful drug invented, it is estimated that 10,000 drugs fail at some stage along the way. Yet drug companies are hugely profitable. Thats because they take huge risk, and those that pay off, pay off grandly. Same with the record labels. According to the RIAA 90% of records released by the major labels fail to turn a profit.


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