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A few GAA referee conundrums

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    #62
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    ? The famous incident.

    Its hardly the Maurice Fitz incident?

    Because there was no free called or yellow card. The ref waved play on, for about 10 seconds, and then stopped play because Billy told him it was broken. Then it was a hopped ball because the ref stopped play.

    If you are talking about another incident... carry on :O :P
    I must have remembered it wrong meself, I thought he was booked for it.
    I probably have it wrong.


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    #63
    DDC1990
    Registered Users Posts: 10,363 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    My first All Ireland so I can still remember most things about that game.

    Was in the Nally Stand :P But my mother was in the Hogan and could hear the crack. :/

    Game played on, and no yellow as far as I can remember. It was tough enough in those days to get a yellow anyway, not to mention for a foul on your own player. Kerry won a free almost straight from the hop ball and Maurice swung the ball over from the sideline. Class.


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    #64
    Squareball2010
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Squareball2010


    bruschi wrote: »
    the red text is impossible to read, maybe put in italics or bold in future.

    you can show a mentor a red card, he can be ordered off the line in the same manner as a player is. Subs can be red carded, and have to leave the perimiter of the pitch, and it can happen mentors, and does happen too.

    I'm also not sure how you can fairly shoulder someone who is bent over picking up a ball, especially if you are not at the same pace at that person. most often what happens is they launch into the side of him or thorugh his back and everyone shouts it was a fair tackle, much like the defender who when he pole-axes a player with a high charge to the head, stands there slapping his shoulder as if he gave a fair tackle. Just because you may use your shoulder does not make it a clean tackle. if you shoulder someone in the face or the back, it is a free.

    you can foul your team mate too, not that it would happen, but it is still considered rough play if you take out one of your own players.

    Would have thought red made it clearer if anything but apologies here it is in bold AND italics.

    OK now can you explain to me how you can show a mentor a red card as you say when they are not even on the field of play in a playing capacity? Where in the rule book does it imply that you show a mentor a red card? I personally don't believe it does and as far as I am aware you cannot and should not the mentor a red card but should take his name and report him after the game for his encroachment or foul play against a player. IMO this is also the same for a sub who again is not involved in a playing capacity and the rule book does not cover sending a sub off for foul play. Surely the same principle applies as with a mentor? Record name and report. From games I have been at this has been the norm anyway. Its not like soccer where managers can be sent to the stands and all that mumbo jumbo...

    As for fair shoulder as someone is bending to pick the ball,...easy you can stoop down to shoulder them off it! This wouldn't be a foul but a lot the time a foul is given as I say because the shoulder is not fair and is into the back or head or whatever.

    Im also curious to your last part. Not sure what you mean here with 'you can foul your team mates too but it is still considered rough play if you take out one of your own players?' Are you saying you can foul as long as the foul doesn't warrant a yellow card offence..and if it does you get a yellow and what happens?


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    #65
    Squareball2010
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Squareball2010


    antoobrien wrote: »
    A person can be "sent off" once they're named on the team sheet - regardless of whether or not they are on the pitch, before the match has started and after the match has ended. It will result in a ban, the same is true for mentors/selectors, though I'm not sure if they can be removed from the dugout (like happens in the foreign sport).


    No free - the rules on'y refer to the opposition.



    Again no action to be taken. All the rules refer to "an opponent" not another player/person on the field of play.

    Anto I take your point but how can you 'send off' a player who is already off? Fair enough I accept and agree it will result in a ban but how can and more importantly WHY would you show them a red card? Rules say nothing of the sort. Same with mentors and no you can't remove them from the dugout as with them foreign sports aka soccer ;) By recording their name and reporting it in your report that results in the ban...you can't show a mentor a red card for heavens sake. What would follow next? Showing a supporter on the sideline or outside the wire a red card too? Ha it would turn into a farce!


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    #66
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    Would have thought red made it clearer if anything but apologies here it is in bold AND italics.

    OK now can you explain to me how you can show a mentor a red card as you say when they are not even on the field of play in a playing capacity? Where in the rule book does it imply that you show a mentor a red card? I personally don't believe it does and as far as I am aware you cannot and should not the mentor a red card but should take his name and report him after the game for his encroachment or foul play against a player. IMO this is also the same for a sub who again is not involved in a playing capacity and the rule book does not cover sending a sub off for foul play. Surely the same principle applies as with a mentor? Record name and report. From games I have been at this has been the norm anyway. Its not like soccer where managers can be sent to the stands and all that mumbo jumbo...

    As for fair shoulder as someone is bending to pick the ball,...easy you can stoop down to shoulder them off it! This wouldn't be a foul but a lot the time a foul is given as I say because the shoulder is not fair and is into the back or head or whatever.

    Im also curious to your last part. Not sure what you mean here with 'you can foul your team mates too but it is still considered rough play if you take out one of your own players?' Are you saying you can foul as long as the foul doesn't warrant a yellow card offence..and if it does you get a yellow and what happens?

    it is like soccer where you can send on managers and all that mumbo jumbo. Off the top of my head, I can remember John Maughan sent off at a Mayo game, and him behind the fence in his board shorts. I know it does, and definitely can happen as I have seen it happen quite a few times. Dont know the specific rule and I'm too lazy to go find it, but it does, and can happen. It also does happen a sub too, why cant it? If a sub runs on the field and decks a player, why should he be allowed to come on and play minutes later?

    not sure where you are confused by my last point. If a player on the same team hits one of his own lads a punch for example, he can be sent off. Just because they are on the same teams does not mean they can not be punished by 'rough play' rule definitions.


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    #67
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    Anto I take your point but how can you 'send off' a player who is already off? Fair enough I accept and agree it will result in a ban but how can and more importantly WHY would you show them a red card?

    Why show then a red card? They are named on the team sheet. If you don't show them the red card, they can come on a sub later. It's covered under rule 5.21 (hurling), 5.18 (football) - if an incident happens before play or at half time the offender "shall be treated as ordered off and shall not participate (or further participate) in the game."
    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    Rules say nothing of the sort. Same with mentors and no you can't remove them from the dugout as with them foreign sports aka soccer ;) By recording their name and reporting it in your report that results in the ban...you can't show a mentor a red card for heavens sake.

    I have seen mentors being sent from the dugout, I don't know what rule it's covered under but it does happen.

    The aggressive fouls list does not specify that the fouls have to be made by a player abd mentors are held to the same rules as players - they can no more strike an opponent/match offical than a player can.
    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    What would follow next? Showing a supporter on the sideline or outside the wire a red card too? Ha it would turn into a farce!

    You should read the rules sometime, you might be enlightened because your ignorance of them is astounding. Spectators & mentors are held to the same rules as players - whether or not this is actually enforced. In the situation you described the referee is supposed to include it in the match report, with the supporters name if possible - something I have heard happening on a few occasions (but I have never been at a match where it has happened).


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    #68
    babs23
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭babs23


    referee should consider his giving up! If both teams agree that Cashell won there should be no need for a replay.


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    #69
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    68Murph68 wrote: »

    #16 A footballer player handles the ball while the ball is in contact with the ground. The referee sees this and correctly allows play to continue. Why?
    It's the goalkeeper.


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    #70
    Squareball2010
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Squareball2010


    [QUOTE=antoobrien;83113791

    You should read the rules sometime, you might be enlightened because your ignorance of them is astounding. Spectators & mentors are held to the same rules as players - whether or not this is actually enforced. In the situation you described the referee is supposed to include it in the match report, with the supporters name if possible - something I have heard happening on a few occasions (but I have never been at a match where it has happened).[/QUOTE]

    Long overdue reply to this but trust me I've read the rules plenty of times as referees usually have to do ;)

    I still find it funny how you feel spectators and mentors are held to the same rules as players. The difference is - the rules are 'playing rules' and these people don't 'play' in the game. Therefore how you can say a referee can red card them is bizarre. They're not players so they can't be red carded. They can be asked I believe to leave the sideline/pitch and you would most certainly record the incident and their names in your report but even the thought of one of our supporters or coaches getting a red card from the referee is hilarious in itself.

    Anyway needless to say I was just sparking a debate and provoking thought as I have throughout the thread.


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    #71
    Squareball2010
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Squareball2010


    Another small one that occurs quite regularly in games:

    Should play be stopped for a player injured at any stage during the game? If so when, when not and why?


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    #72
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,229 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    Another small one that occurs quite regularly in games:

    Should play be stopped for a player injured at any stage during the game? If so when, when not and why?

    Only if it's a head or blood injury - I think.


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    #73
    jwcurtin
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭jwcurtin


    I'm dragging this up to ask a very simple question that doesn't seem to be in the rules: How many players are allowed on the line for a 21 yard (20m) free in hurling? I always though it was 5, but there's no mention of it in the rules as far as I can see.


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    #74
    rebel girl 15
    Registered Users, Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    jwcurtin wrote: »
    I'm dragging this up to ask a very simple question that doesn't seem to be in the rules: How many players are allowed on the line for a 21 yard (20m) free in hurling? I always though it was 5, but there's no mention of it in the rules as far as I can see.

    If it is a penalty, as signalled by the referee by putting his hands out wide, its 3. Other than that as far as I'm aware its as many as you want. 5 just seems to be the norm


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    #75
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    rebel girl 15 wrote: »
    If it is a penalty, as signalled by the referee by putting his hands out wide, its 3. Other than that as far as I'm aware its as many as you want. 5 just seems to be the norm

    Yup, it's a matter of how many you can fit on the line without them getting in each other's way.


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    #76
    macadam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Guy's Im also a ref, but the rules of the gaelic football are crazy, tell me what rule in the book mentions "Noting a player".


    Also what is the offence for a goalkeeper taking a kickout and the ball rolling?


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    #77
    kala85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭kala85


    Player has the ball in his hand and steps over the sideline or the goal line. What happens here? What do you think? Is it a line ball / goal as appropriate or just play on??


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    #78
    kala85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭kala85


    Managers cannot be red carded . There is no rule in the book to say that the managers can be red carded. In most cases in club matches - there is an unwritten rule as far as I know that refs can ask/ order any abusive person from the pitch.

    Managers who give verbals at matches are supposed to reported in the referees report and let the county board deal with them.


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    #79
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    kala85 wrote: »
    Managers cannot be red carded . There is no rule in the book to say that the managers can be red carded. In most cases in club matches - there is an unwritten rule as far as I know that refs can ask/ order any abusive person from the pitch.

    Managers who give verbals at matches are supposed to reported in the referees report and let the county board deal with them.

    see rule 7 (c)and bear in mind that if an official gets a suspension, they are not allowed in the pitch area, so a referee can order them to leave the playing area.


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    #80
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭bren2001


    kala85 wrote: »
    Player has the ball in his hand and steps over the sideline or the goal line. What happens here? What do you think? Is it a line ball / goal as appropriate or just play on??

    Ball has to cross the line. It's not rugby. Play on, I regularly would step over the side line to get by an opponent, just keep the ball in play.


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    #81
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    kala85 wrote: »
    Player has the ball in his hand and steps over the sideline or the goal line. What happens here? What do you think? Is it a line ball / goal as appropriate or just play on??

    If the ball crosses the line free out/line ball as appropriate. It's a free rather than a goal because the ball can't be carried over the goal line.


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    #82
    Cuchulainn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Cuchulainn2012


    macadam wrote: »
    Guy's Im also a ref, but the rules of the gaelic football are crazy, tell me what rule in the book mentions "Noting a player".


    Also what is the offence for a goalkeeper taking a kickout and the ball rolling?

    Noting a player refers to taking a players number - in football there are a few fouls which dont merit a yellow but are notable offences. Players do not need to be informed that they are noted but referees will usually let the player know.

    The goalkeeper one has two scenarios - if the referee has blew the whistle for play to restart and the keeper rolls the ball out and during the roll sticks his welly in it - 1 foul has been committed and a throw up on the 13m should take place.
    2 - as in most cases a referee will simply ask for the kick to be retaken.


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    #83
    macadam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Cuchulainn2012 wrote: »
    Noting a player refers to taking a players number - in football there are a few fouls which dont merit a yellow but are notable offences. Players do not need to be informed that they are noted but referees will usually let the player know.

    The goalkeeper one has two scenarios - if the referee has blew the whistle for play to restart and the keeper rolls the ball out and during the roll sticks his welly in it - 1 foul has been committed and a throw up on the 13m should take place.
    2 - as in most cases a referee will simply ask for the kick to be retaken.
    Neither in the official guide 2012.
    Re kickout, Rule 2.7a Just states that the ball is kicked out after a wide or a score from 13m line(nothing mentioned about a rolling ball) so its not actually a foul, if the ref warns him not to do it again he can throw it up if he does.

    As for Noting, I know the procedure for carrying out the noting/tick, but it is not mentioned once in the rule book.


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    #84
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Id say a rolling kick out is covered under rule 2.5.


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    #85
    macadam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Id say a rolling kick out is covered under rule 2.5.
    I see where your coming from but a Kick out is not a Free kick, this is what I mean about the rules they are crazy, there are loopholes in almost 50% of rules.


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    #86
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Squareball2010 wrote: »
    Incident #1:The ball strikes a defender hits the corner flag and goes out over the endline. Decision? [/quote/] 65
    #2A player attempts to strike a sideline cut, misses the ball and pulls for a second time. Decision? Ignore and let play continue. He didn't make contact with the ball. Therefore play had not recommenced.
    #3You have just moved the ball forward 13m for dissent after awarding a free and a player continues to remonstrate with your decision. Decision? Yellow card and move the ball forward another 13m.,
    #4A player disagrees with your line ball decision. Can the line ball be advanced 13m for dissent? In my opinion yes.
    #5A player takes a free and gives it to his teamate who is standing 10m away approx. Decision? Throw in. Free against if I'm in a bad mood :-)
    #6An Attacking player is fouled in the large square just as he strikes his shot which the goalkeeper makes a brilliant save to tip the ball over the bar. Decision?
    Penalty. The decision must be to the victim's best advantage, and presumably the point is there for the taking if the injured team so chooses. Of course, the question of a card and its colour also arises.
    #7In hurling, the goalkeeper makes a superb save and proceeds to protect his goal from an on rushing forward by lieing on the ball inside the small square. Decision? Penalty.
    #8In football, the ball is picked up/touched on the ground inside the small square by a defender. Decision?
    Penalty.


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    #87
    macadam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    You can only move the ball forward 13m once if the player remonstrates again its a yellow, if he or another player keeps it going its a straight red to either or..
    Rule 6 -Dissent


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    #88
    mooonpie
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭mooonpie


    antoobrien wrote: »
    If the ball crosses the line free out/line ball as appropriate. It's a free rather than a goal because the ball can't be carried over the goal line.

    Just to complicate matters (I was aware of the above already) ... What happens if a defender carries the ball over his own goal line?


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    #89
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    mooonpie wrote: »
    Just to complicate matters (I was aware of the above already) ... What happens if a defender carries the ball over his own goal line?

    Goal, the prohibition is only against the attacker.
    If a defending player plays the ball through his own scoring space in any manner, this shall count as a score.


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    #90
    Colm R
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    OK here is a very unlikely conundrum. Throwing the ball.

    If I throw the ball at the ground and catch it again, its just a bounce.

    If I throw it at the ground and, for whatever reason fail to control it, I do not think I will be penalized. Any player is now able to take possession of the ball in open play but I am not being punished for not controlling the bounce of the ball.

    So basically, you're allowed throw the ball at the ground - its not necessary to catch it again. So, could I throw a ball to another player and provided the ball hits the ground before the other player receives it, then is that OK?

    What say ye?


    I can't imagine a situation where it could possibly happen - maybe where a player is in possession and is surrounded by two or more defenders. With no space to swing a hand or foot, he may jump in the air and throw the ball to the ground at a distance away from him.


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    #91
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Colm R wrote: »
    If I throw it at the ground and, for whatever reason fail to control it, I do not think I will be penalized. Any player is now able to take possession of the ball in open play but I am not being punished for not controlling the bounce of the ball.

    So basically, you're allowed throw the ball at the ground - its not necessary to catch it again. So, could I throw a ball to another player and provided the ball hits the ground before the other player receives it, then is that OK?

    If the player is on your team it's a free because it's an illegal pass.
    Colm R wrote: »
    I can't imagine a situation where it could possibly happen - maybe where a player is in possession and is surrounded by two or more defenders. With no space to swing a hand or foot, he may jump in the air and throw the ball to the ground at a distance away from him.

    That'd be a free.


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