Gold

euroboom13 · 18-04-2013 9:24pm

Roonbox wrote: »

I think we will see Dow 10,000 again, prob lower, Nasdaq 2000..

I think Commodities will also fall at that time but not to the same degree, You could be right with gold at 1000.

I am waiting for a selling climax in the SM to purchase silver, hopefully before the end of the year.

One things for sure we are at the most interesting time in history for investing....and it is a complete unknown future..(last monday gold drop for example).....and it is good to see a variety of views trying to figure this one out.....there is going to be alot of fortunes made and lost in the coming months....there is no safe havans.... every market is volitile$$$...i am staying clear of(oil/gold/cash)

....best of luck to all........

coolabuaile · 23-05-2013 11:39pm

Some people who are concerned about share or commodity prices tend to be concerned about self sufficiency in times of crisis and want to ensure they can provide for themselves and their families. A suggestion for those individuals would be to look into smallholding or at least growing your own veg (and buy a gold pan). Mind more at ease. Boom. We might see a financial Armageddon in our lifetimes or we may not; nobody can tell us what will happen in the future but we're all great at speculating. There's my 2 cent worth as a worrier and speculator all rolled into one small, talkative woman.

bus_driver · 25-05-2013 4:10pm

glad I sold the last of my gold in January before the fall , made a little money on it over a two year period

took a bath on silver but sold it @ 24 euro in January , its below twenty today , made what I lost back on bank of Ireland shares

SyntonFenix · 27-05-2013 5:58am

It costs between $900 to $1200, depending where you get your info, to produce an oz of gold. The market price is being manipulated, currencies around the world are being debased and sovereign debt is rising. If the price does go to $1000, it would not make any logical sense for it to stay or go below that price for long.

As for oil, all you need is for something to happen in the Middle East and the price will go towards $120 a barrel.

euroboom13 · 27-05-2013 10:07pm

SyntonFenix wrote: »

It costs between $900 to $1200, depending where you get your info, to produce an oz of gold. The market price is being manipulated, currencies around the world are being debased and sovereign debt is rising. If the price does go to $1000, it would not make any logical sense for it to stay or go below that price for long.

As for oil, all you need is for something to happen in the Middle East and the price will go towards $120 a barrel.

cost of producing gold is also inflated.

I believe ,something real will happen in the middle east when oil hits $80 a barrel,.....
(U.S. is increasing storage and production<shale talk>,price war coming....middle east oil boom is being slowly crippled by smart finance.... n korea wanted to help middle east by maintaining demand ....hence missile crisis propaganda by our news stations.....).....gold and oil slump is just what western society needs to break up middle east oil monopoly.....

OIL GOLD slump ahead.....perfect storm....

i could be wrong but i`m not going to loose money...Good luck

SyntonFenix · 02-06-2013 9:23am

euroboom13 wrote: »

OIL GOLD slump ahead.....perfect storm....

Gold has always been money. It's what's going to happen to currencies.

DarkDusk · 02-06-2013 5:01pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

cost of producing gold is also inflated.

And you don't think the Fed balance sheet isn't? :rolleyes:

DarkDusk · 02-06-2013 6:47pm

SyntonFenix wrote: »

Gold has always been money. It's what's going to happen to currencies.

Thanks a million for that video, I've never listened to MacLeod before but he certainly knows his stuff. There were some tidbits that I didn't know before, for example, about the Cypriots (not exclusively the Cypriots) looking for their physical gold from the bullion banks and this is why the price was driven down, to take away the bullishness in gold. The main reason I am in silver at the moment is the exactly the same reason MacLeod was explaining, and I've reiterated this in other threads in saying that the Fed (or any other central bank) has no exit strategy for QE programs.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 12:53am

DarkDusk wrote: »

And you don't think the Fed balance sheet isn't? :rolleyes:

not interested in a im right/your wrong debate

i think (i will repeat)that gold values have increased 4x since Gordon Brown and that fed printing will not impact gold because it is already overpriced....so investors whom correctly believe that increased currency means higher commodity prices will be wrong.....commodities values are falling and currency printing is in full swing?.....strange but true....its not a profit taking fall as we are being led to believe ,it is a commodity price collaspe with QE increasing..

and that is why i am staying away from all commodities now.....it is not a normal time....and dangerous to presume it is.....

It is easy to say fed qe causes gold price inflation but the truth is the opposite is happening.....

SyntonFenix · 03-06-2013 7:35am

euroboom13 wrote: »

not interested in a im right/your wrong debate

You're just interested in saying you're right then?

euroboom13 wrote: »

i think (i will repeat)that gold values have increased 4x since Gordon Brown and that fed printing will not impact gold because it is already overpriced....so investors whom correctly believe that increased currency means higher commodity prices will be wrong

"not interested in a im right/your wrong debate". Just that "they're wrong" is it? :pac:

Technically it's QE by the Fed and not Fed money printing. The only winners here are companies and investors in the stock market. The majority of this money is going into financial institutions to buy bonds. To say QE has no impact on the price of gold is wrong, these institutions are putting QE money into this market. It influences the spot price of gold.

If anyone can explain and prove otherwise, I would be more than willing to listen and stand corrected.

euroboom13 wrote: »

.....commodities values are falling and currency printing is in full swing?.....strange but true....its not a profit taking fall as we are being led to believe ,it is a commodity price collaspe with QE increasing..

Not going to last. With many countries increasing their physical gold stocks, the demand for physical gold is going to continue. The cost of gold production is looking ever more likely to increase, making new mined gold scarce.

euroboom13 wrote: »

It is easy to say fed qe causes gold price inflation but the truth is the opposite is happening.....

For the moment maybe. For you're own research, look up the estimated amount of physical gold in the world and the amount that is traded in the markets. That, along with QE, currency debasing and sovereign debt in countries throughout the world would point to gold being a good long term investment.

All your points seem to be based on whatever they're talking about on Bloomberg at the moment.

DarkDusk · 03-06-2013 9:19am

euroboom13 wrote: »

and that is why i am staying away from all commodities now.....it is not a normal time....and dangerous to presume it is.....

It's not a normal time, yes, but not a normal time for stocks either!

SyntonFenix wrote: »

All your points seem to be based on whatever they're talking about on Bloomberg at the moment.

Exactly what's going through my head every time I read his posts.

@Euroboom: Please use proper punctuation, it is terribly painful to read your posts sometimes.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 2:39pm

SyntonFenix wrote: »

You're just interested in saying you're right then?

"not interested in a im right/your wrong debate". Just that "they're wrong" is it? :pac:

Technically it's QE by the Fed and not Fed money printing. The only winners here are companies and investors in the stock market. The majority of this money is going into financial institutions to buy bonds. To say QE has no impact on the price of gold is wrong, these institutions are putting QE money into this market. It influences the spot price of gold.

If anyone can explain and prove otherwise, I would be more than willing to listen and stand corrected.

Not going to last. With many countries increasing their physical gold stocks, the demand for physical gold is going to continue. The cost of gold production is looking ever more likely to increase, making new mined gold scarce.

For the moment maybe. For you're own research, look up the estimated amount of physical gold in the world and the amount that is traded in the markets. That, along with QE, currency debasing and sovereign debt in countries throughout the world would point to gold being a good long term investment.

All your points seem to be based on whatever they're talking about on Bloomberg at the moment.

Very sorry to tell you that i dont have bloomberg and have Never watch that tripe(or stations like it) for longer then 5 minutes.....and can honestly say that i haven`t watched or listen to public media in a very long long time.....

I will also say my views are normally opposite to media stations...but i cant comfirm that

I do believe i am right that qe is not having the desired effect on gold prices.(i may not stay right ,but have been proven right for the last 6 mnths)

I am convinced in my own head that gold prices will continue to slide along with brent crude and that the imf report on saudi has warned about this..

I dont want a debate because i agree that what is happening now should push gold prices up but what should happen and what is happening is 2 very different things.

I believe gold has reached unsustainable high`s prior to crisis and that is why qe(what ever type ,dosen`t matter) is not effecting it.Oil is also too high,hence why there is a boom in exploration companies and old unprofitable finds are being toted as saleable...petrol at pumps has gone from 30pence to 160cents in 15 years,(gold has had a simillar story)

Your right and I am trying to put some sence to why youve been proven wrong the past year.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 2:48pm

DarkDusk wrote: »

It's not a normal time, yes, but not a normal time for stocks either!

Exactly what's going through my head every time I read his posts.

@Euroboom: Please use proper punctuation, it is terribly painful to read your posts sometimes.

NEVER WATCHED BLOOMBERG seriously never

I am a very long time out of school and dont have good writing skills but am passionate about whats happen right now so i will make more of an effort

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 3:09pm

DarkDusk wrote: »

It's not a normal time, yes, but not a normal time for stocks either!

Exactly what's going through my head every time I read his posts.

@Euroboom: Please use proper punctuation, it is terribly painful to read your posts sometimes.

When i read his posts a wonder is he trying to sell me silver.
If its so good fill your boots.:rolleyes:

DarkDusk · 03-06-2013 3:10pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

the imf report on saudi has warned about this..

And the IMF have been right about everything so far, have they? :rolleyes:

petrol at pumps has gone from 30pence to 160cents in 15 years,(gold has had a simillar story)

One of the effects of inflation, AKA currency devaluation.

Your right and I am trying to put some sence to why youve been proven wrong the past year.

I was wrong (short term I believe) because I thought QE would directly influence the gold price this time, but what I am saying now is the inflation caused by QE in the stock markets at the moment will eventually leak into commodities like gold and oil.

SyntonFenix · 03-06-2013 4:05pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

I am convinced in my own head that gold prices will continue to slide along with brent crude and that the imf report on saudi has warned about this..

Can you refer what IMF report that is? And, what "Saudi" warning?

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 6:27pm

SyntonFenix wrote: »

Can you refer what IMF report that is? And, what "Saudi" warning?

I will try and find a link shortly(nov 2012) but what it was saying was that if oil price`s hit $80 a barrel its debt levels would be unsustanable and would have to enter a program similar to the piigs.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 6:38pm

DarkDusk wrote: »

And the IMF have been right about everything so far, have they? :rolleyes:

One of the effects of inflation, AKA currency devaluation.

I was wrong (short term I believe) because I thought QE would directly influence the gold price this time, but what I am saying now is the inflation caused by QE in the stock markets at the moment will eventually leak into commodities like gold and oil.

I thought you meant that gold would be a hedge against buying power errosion,if it is a trickle down effect ,why not invest in stocks and benefit from dividends and price increases before it reaches gold and oil?That would make more sence!

What you seem to be saying above is buy stocks now and gold/oil latter?Which i would agree with!

DarkDusk · 03-06-2013 7:35pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

I thought you meant that gold would be a hedge against buying power errosion,if it is a trickle down effect ,why not invest in stocks and benefit from dividends and price increases before it reaches gold and oil?That would make more sence!

What you seem to be saying above is buy stocks now and gold/oil latter?Which i would agree with!

Ah, but then you have to pick a time to sell your stocks, which I would not risk doing.

I'm happy enough holding onto my my physical silver at the moment, not interested in looking at the stock market everyday and worrying about when to sell etc.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 7:46pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

I will try and find a link shortly(nov 2012) but what it was saying was that if oil price`s hit $80 a barrel its debt levels would be unsustanable and would have to enter a program similar to the piigs.

here`s a cnn referance to break even oil prices...Have read it personally out of the imf report but haven`t the pataints to find it!

I saw some striking numbers this week: Look at the "break-even" costs for the world's top oil producers. That is the minimum price at which these countries need to sell oil so that they can balance their budgets.
Russia now needs oil at $110 a barrel to manage its finances. For Iraq, the number is $100. Even Saudi Arabia now needs oil to trade around $80 a barrel just to balance its budgets. The numbers are also high for Algeria, Qatar, and Oman. Only a decade ago Saudi Arabia was able to balance its budget with oil prices averaging around $25 a barrel.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 8:04pm

DarkDusk wrote: »

Ah, but then you have to pick a time to sell your stocks, which I would not risk doing.

I'm happy enough holding onto my my physical silver at the moment, not interested in looking at the stock market everyday and worrying about when to sell etc.

silver/gold/oil is risk at this moment in time.....I would worry if i was holding any....A friend of mine whom wouldn`t listen ,risked 50,000 on gold as a long play and today it is only worth 35,000.....He is holding tight but isn`t having a worry free time at all,infact the opposite..If
he bought silver he would be as bad off.

Or he could have bought equity which is having its moment right now.
No worry free investments now,safe haven`s included.

DarkDusk · 03-06-2013 9:31pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

here`s a cnn referance to break even oil prices...Have read it personally out of the imf report but haven`t the pataints to find it!

I saw some striking numbers this week: Look at the "break-even" costs for the world's top oil producers. That is the minimum price at which these countries need to sell oil so that they can balance their budgets.
Russia now needs oil at $110 a barrel to manage its finances. For Iraq, the number is $100. Even Saudi Arabia now needs oil to trade around $80 a barrel just to balance its budgets. The numbers are also high for Algeria, Qatar, and Oman. Only a decade ago Saudi Arabia was able to balance its budget with oil prices averaging around $25 a barrel.

Well, if these oil producers are making a loss selling oil then they'll reduce their supply to the world and hold until prices stabilize. This is what happens in gold, silver and nearly every commodity market. This reduces the supply available on the market, therefore increasing the price.

Think about it, if you decided to sell 10 apples from your orchard every week at a usual price of 50c an apple, and the price went to 2c, would you sell your apples? Or would you hold them until prices/markets seek fair value?

DarkDusk · 03-06-2013 9:43pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

Or he could have bought equity which is having its moment right now.

Yes, it is having it's moment, but why and for how long?

Cheap money and low interest rates make bonds and bank savings unattractive to investors, so they put their money into the stock market. That's basically why the markets are seeing new highs at the moment. The economy is not recovering in the US - real unemployment rates are about 14%, inflation 10% and this is while the Fed has it's foot on peddle at the printing presses.

All it takes is for the people to wake up and realize that there is nothing of substance holding up the market and then everything crashes. Interest rates have to go up sooner or later, or else there will be very painful inflation in consumer everyday goods.

euroboom13 · 03-06-2013 10:09pm

DarkDusk wrote: »

Well, if these oil producers are making a loss selling oil then they'll reduce their supply to the world and hold until prices stabilize. This is what happens in gold, silver and nearly every commodity market. This reduces the supply available on the market, therefore increasing the price.

Think about it, if you decided to sell 10 apples from your orchard every week at a usual price of 50c an apple, and the price went to 2c, would you sell your apples? Or would you hold them until prices/markets seek fair value?

The problem is there are alot of orchards my friend and america have found some new ones and the old middle east oil monopoly is getting sqeezed.Middle east maybe stalling production to hold prices but america have hughly increased production and storage.

Now if oil and gold markets fall ,middle eastern oil nations will require a good old debt restructure/privatisation program,handing monopoly back to opec.(iran already tried to do a supply deal with n korea to keep up demand but for some reason n.korea got cold feet and chickened out.)

I for one wouldnt like to bet against this senario happening.

euroboom13 · 04-06-2013 6:35am

DarkDusk wrote: »

Yes, it is having it's moment, but why and for how long?

Cheap money and low interest rates make bonds and bank savings unattractive to investors, so they put their money into the stock market. That's basically why the markets are seeing new highs at the moment. The economy is not recovering in the US - real unemployment rates are about 14%, inflation 10% and this is while the Fed has it's foot on peddle at the printing presses.

All it takes is for the people to wake up and realize that there is nothing of substance holding up the market and then everything crashes. Interest rates have to go up sooner or later, or else there will be very painful inflation in consumer everyday goods.

Recovery stocks are undervalued and stagnant ,they only appear to be rising because of qe.They are the only investment that seem to be moving with qe.They are definitely not rising like hot air, and preparing for major crash.Interest rates will go up to pull back unsustanible growth but all major economies are lowering interest rates ,so nobodies to worried a bout an overheated stock market yet only you.When they start to rise interest rates dramatically maybe i will sell but not till then.

SyntonFenix · 06-06-2013 3:55pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

Recovery stocks are undervalued and stagnant ,they only appear to be rising because of qe.They are the only investment that seem to be moving with qe.They are definitely not rising like hot air, and preparing for major crash.Interest rates will go up to pull back unsustanible growth but all major economies are lowering interest rates ,so nobodies to worried a bout an overheated stock market yet only you.When they start to rise interest rates dramatically maybe i will sell but not till then.

From reading over your comments, although they seem to be verging on riddles rather than factual points, gold and silver are not floating your boat at the moment. You're not interested in them because of the current risks involved; too volatile, over priced, potential bubble etc. Am I right in saying that?

Where you and I differ here is I'm not that interested in the stock market. What I am interested in is investing in tangible assets that can preserve what little wealth I have. From my own research gold appears to be a good long term option based on historical fact and events when compared to related present and possible future events.

So, where you seem to be keeping an eye on what's happening now, I'm looking at what's coming down the road in 5, 10 and 20 years time.

Even take the stock market spot price for gold and compare it to coins and bars being sold by dealers and on the likes of ebay, which price per oz of gold is higher?

euroboom13 · 06-06-2013 9:15pm

SyntonFenix wrote: »

From reading over your comments, although they seem to be verging on riddles rather than factual points, gold and silver are not floating your boat at the moment. You're not interested in them because of the current risks involved; too volatile, over priced, potential bubble etc. Am I right in saying that?

Where you and I differ here is I'm not that interested in the stock market. What I am interested in is investing in tangible assets that can preserve what little wealth I have. From my own research gold appears to be a good long term option based on historical fact and events when compared to related present and possible future events.

So, where you seem to be keeping an eye on what's happening now, I'm looking at what's coming down the road in 5, 10 and 20 years time.

Even take the stock market spot price for gold and compare it to coins and bars being sold by dealers and on the likes of ebay, which price per oz of gold is higher?

The way currency/bonds /commodities /stock /work ,over 10 ,15,20 yrs ,is that eventually they are all goin up (if theyre still around),compared with previous years!
RANT
Interest rates on borrowings and inflation have alot to do with the apparent upward only movement(in time)
Goverments debt which, in this world is the biggest borrower,needs inflation to be greater than the interest borrowed.(so that ,even if the debt gets bigger,it gets erroded by inflation,...the debt never gets paid..the interest is covered by inflation....

Now heres the trap.Volitily(50% swing)
You can buy any investment on any day and as long as it is still on this earth in 20 yrs it will be worth more!
Life is too short for that in my opinion ,so i try to predict whats having a really bad day, but will be here in 20 years.So that when its cycle is in favor, i will not only profit on the normal upward movement but that by predictings its low, i will also profit on VOLITILY

Gold silver oil is nowhere near a low point.it is at a very healthy midway between high and possible low.
If i invest now i risk a paper loss or a better buying point.
Some stock is on the floor now and will be here in 20 yrs.
I feel that there is a better place for capitol now.

Every investment type has a bad day, banking stock,property,european gov bonds,gold silver.......I buy on that day.....Banking stock is my tip...
Pension funds ,corporations Hedgefunds will all return to this area within 5yrs....Not all banks will survive but the ones that do will be in a bigger pond....( if u bought property in 2006 u could have to wait till 2026,to get a return,but if u buy in 2016 u could make a killing by 2026)

Gold had a high last year ,if it had a good low last year, i would buy.

Rant over

DarkDusk · 06-06-2013 11:10pm

euroboom13 wrote: »

Interest rates on borrowings and inflation have alot to do with the apparent upward only movement(in time)
Goverments debt which, in this world is the biggest borrower,needs inflation to be greater than the interest borrowed.(so that ,even if the debt gets bigger,it gets erroded by inflation,...the debt never gets paid..the interest is covered by inflation....

There's quite a bit of debt lying around :rolleyes: Who's to say that inflation will not get out of control? What about a scenario in which a new monetary system (non-dollar) comes into effect? All stocks are priced in dollars, gold as a method of preserving wealth has been around for thousands of years.

euroboom13 · 07-06-2013 6:28am

DarkDusk wrote: »

There's quite a bit of debt lying around :rolleyes: Who's to say that inflation will not get out of control? What about a scenario in which a new monetary system (non-dollar) comes into effect? All stocks are priced in dollars, gold as a method of preserving wealth has been around for thousands of years.

I do beleive that inflation will go out of control,but with gold already at an inflated price it will not be a good hedge.Thats what is different in this crisis.

All stock are priced in $$??

I dont own any $$ stock?
Ever heard of the euro/ pound sterling/yen?

And on that note i give up,UR RIGHT/i`m wrong

Good luck

DarkDusk · 07-06-2013 10:18am

euroboom13 wrote: »

I do beleive that inflation will go out of control,but with gold already at an inflated price it will not be a good hedge.Thats what is different in this crisis.

All stock are priced in $$??
I dont own any $$ stock?
Ever heard of the euro/ pound sterling/yen?

And on that note i give up,UR RIGHT/i`m wrong

Good luck

The dollar is the reserve currency, therefore everything is priced in dollars. Your stocks are merely converted into another currency.

If the dollar reserve currency paradigm goes (it has gone past the average lifespan of a monetary system, roughly 40 years), then I would not like to be in stocks, because all currencies would have to be scrapped.

Gold

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