Windmills- Corrupt payment for neighbours?

Dampintheattic · 04-06-2013 11:26AM

reilig wrote: »

We have 23 that distance from a property that we own.
There's more noise from our neighbour's cattle than the windmills - yes there is a whistleing from them during gale force winds, but there is a whistling from the trees too - and anything else higher than ground level.

When we were young there used to be a coal mine there and a coal powered ESB station a few miles away. There's no coal dust in the air now. There's no poisonous smoke from the Stack. Loads of locals are employed in the maintenance of these turbines. Tourists come into the area to look at them and spend money in the local economy.

They are a valuable asset to this area!

THAT, post just sums it up, in a nutshell.
There is no downside, certainly no fumes, poison run off, etc, ect,.
Construction and preconstruction planning phase, generates employment.
Long term, at least some locals, gain financially from having turbines on their land. Good for them, luck sods.
Long term, in many cases, the whole area benefits, from some road improvements done to enable the delivey of large heavy gear to the sites.
There has been great road improvements in this area, on a long stretch of minor roads, including straightening, resurfacing, bridge improvements, etc.

God knows, a bit of economic activity is badly needed.

They are certainly a lot nicer to look at, than the great big static pylons, which carry high voltage power lines, cris crossing the country. You barely hear a gug about those.

yellow50HX · 04-06-2013 12:16PM

philhunt wrote: »

the noise for a start we have 6 about that distance from us, we had to have double glazing fitted and it can still be heard at night when they are facing a certain way, landowner gets paid loads of money yearly and a stack upfront, noise tests are done on there property :rolleyes: turbines do not exceed noise levels what they fail to mention is that the higher up you are the noisier they get, trust me you do not want these things anywhere near you stick them out at sea

the cost of your double glazing could be offset by the home enegry improvments grant. Infact the energy saving of moving from single pane to double or even triple glazing are well founded. Have you found your room warmer since you got the new windows? See even without knowing it that windmill was making your heating needs lower.

as for the noise, we get a lot of it when the wind howls and it drafts down the chimney. also the trees around the house make a lot of noise too, and depending on the wind the esb and telephone lines also make asavage whining noise.

yellow50HX · 04-06-2013 12:19PM

reilig wrote: »

We have 23 that distance from a property that we own.
There's more noise from our neighbour's cattle than the windmills - yes there is a whistleing from them during gale force winds, but there is a whistling from the trees too - and anything else higher than ground level.

When we were young there used to be a coal mine there and a coal powered ESB station a few miles away. There's no coal dust in the air now. There's no poisonous smoke from the Stack. Loads of locals are employed in the maintenance of these turbines. Tourists come into the area to look at them and spend money in the local economy.

They are a valuable asset to this area!

spot on. i think your talking about the area near arigna, twas a pretty bleak spot from lookign at the old photos of the place. i reckon a tour of the mines and the hardship people went through to get out the coal would be a good pointer for people.

Greensleeves · 04-06-2013 12:39PM

SNIP

As a rule, we do not allow advertising or promotion on this forum.
Sometimes people PM us before the post something which they feel might break the rule and we often allow them to go ahead.
However, this is the second time that you posted to promote and advertise meetings without asking either of the 2 mods here, and this is the second time that I am deleting it.

If you further flaunt the rules, a ban will ensue!

Toplink · 04-06-2013 01:55PM

reilig wrote: »

We have 23 that distance from a property that we own.
There's more noise from our neighbour's cattle than the windmills - yes there is a whistleing from them during gale force winds, but there is a whistling from the trees too - and anything else higher than ground level.

When we were young there used to be a coal mine there and a coal powered ESB station a few miles away. There's no coal dust in the air now. There's no poisonous smoke from the Stack. Loads of locals are employed in the maintenance of these turbines. Tourists come into the area to look at them and spend money in the local economy.

They are a valuable asset to this area!

Good post. I wouldn't have any argument on this angle of wind farms.

My argument would be... are they a good investment of valuable public subsidy money? Will Electricity get cheaper in Ireland as a result?

reilig · 04-06-2013 02:01PM

Toplink wrote: »

Good post. I wouldn't have any argument on this angle of wind farms.

My argument would be... are they a good investment of valuable public subsidy money? Will Electricity get cheaper in Ireland as a result?

We're on the interconnector now. Electricity in Ireland will remain the same price as the rest of Europe (before tax) for the life of the interconnector. If we can feed cheaply and sustainable produced electricity into the interconnector and get paid a premium for it, then we will be financially better off.

Public Subsidy Money?
I don't think there are any grants for the proposed ventures?
I think they are private.

Toplink · 04-06-2013 02:08PM

reilig wrote: »

We're on the interconnector now. Electricity in Ireland will remain the same price as the rest of Europe (before tax) for the life of the interconnector. If we can feed cheaply and sustainable produced electricity into the interconnector and get paid a premium for it, then we will be financially better off.

Public Subsidy Money?
I don't think there are any grants for the proposed ventures?
I think they are private.

The Refit tariff

Section 4 of this contains the prices....

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/DF253F94-8366-4DE0-A2E6-DFA244E634DD/0/REFIT2TermsandConditionsMarch2012c.pdf

Dampintheattic · 04-06-2013 02:19PM

reilig wrote: »

We're on the interconnector now. Electricity in Ireland will remain the same price as the rest of Europe (before tax) for the life of the interconnector. If we can feed cheaply and sustainable produced electricity into the interconnector and get paid a premium for it, then we will be financially better off.

Public Subsidy Money?
I don't think there are any grants for the proposed ventures?
I think they are private.

Where I work, in manufacturing business. We have plants in Ireland, UK, France, Germany, USA.
Per KWh, we are double USA plant, 48% higher than Germany, 43% higher than France, 34% higher than UK.
Cost of power in this country, is a national emergency, and should be treated as such. A massive milestone around the necks of consumers and business alike.
Ah, but wait .................. WE, have to pay ESB staff an average of €75k per year:(
ALL, ESB staff received pay increases and bonuses since the onset of the financial crisis. The rest of the population had to take one hist to the pocket after another.
Why is that? :mad:

reilig · 04-06-2013 02:22PM

Toplink wrote: »

The Refit tariff

Section 4 of this contains the prices....

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/DF253F94-8366-4DE0-A2E6-DFA244E634DD/0/REFIT2TermsandConditionsMarch2012c.pdf

I'm not an expert with this stuff but I understood that there were not grants available, but instead higher payments per unit of electricity available to the installers which was funded through the PSO's on ESB Bills? These higher payments help us to meet our EU target for renewable energy. If we don't meet these targets, we get fined.

reilig · 04-06-2013 02:30PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Why is that? :mad:

I think you have answered that one for yourself

Toplink · 04-06-2013 02:35PM

reilig wrote: »

I'm not an expert with this stuff but I understood that there were not grants available, but instead higher payments per unit of electricity available to the installers which was funded through the PSO's on ESB Bills? These higher payments help us to meet our EU target for renewable energy. If we don't meet these targets, we get fined.

Not an expert either... but it seems to me that for a Windfarm developer the risk is removed, they have a guaranteed income once the windfarm is operational.

This 'guaranteed' income is coming out of the public purse.

Over 60 euro per MWH generated. Think there is about 5 million MWHs produced from wind every year...

300 million out of tax payers pocket.

reilig · 04-06-2013 03:34PM

Toplink wrote: »

Not an expert either... but it seems to me that for a Windfarm developer the risk is removed, they have a guaranteed income once the windfarm is operational.

This 'guaranteed' income is coming out of the public purse.

Over 60 euro per MWH generated. Think there is about 5 million MWHs produced from wind every year...

300 million out of tax payers pocket.

Not necessarily.

How much do producers of non renewable electricity get paid per MWH?

The difference between the 2 is what is coming out of ESB Bill payers pockets (Not every tax payer in the country). I think there is about a 10% premium for producing renewable electricity in ireland.

Therfore the extra cost is €30 million and not €300 million.

There is a 20% premium for renweable energy in the UK, so it makes sense for us to sell electricity to them at a higher price!

maidhc · 04-06-2013 04:18PM

reilig wrote: »

Not necessarily.

How much do producers of non renewable electricity get paid per MWH?

The difference between the 2 is what is coming out of ESB Bill payers pockets (Not every tax payer in the country). I think there is about a 10% premium for producing renewable electricity in ireland.

Therfore the extra cost is €30 million and not €300 million.

There is a 20% premium for renweable energy in the UK, so it makes sense for us to sell electricity to them at a higher price!

They are also guaranteed payment for when they can produce electricity, unlike a normal business where you get paid when there is a demand.

Dampintheattic · 04-06-2013 04:32PM

maidhc wrote: »

They are also guaranteed payment for when they can produce electricity, unlike a normal business where you get paid when there is a demand.

Power generating in Ireland, is very, very, very far from a normal market:o
ESB, was protected like a baby, for decades since electrification began.
Opening of the market, and introduction of alternative suppliers and generation technologies, is in it's infancy.

Hopefully, and please God, we will come to the point where ESB, will feel the same heat and pressure and competition, from a selection of lean and fit alternative suppliers, that they will have no option but to cut cost, and cut prices.

Like Aer Lingus ............. another (semi-state) shower of wunkers, who made flying the preserve of the rich in this country.
They did ALL, in their power to kill Ryanair in it's infancy, to keep the market a monopoly. Big salaries, high wages, free flights for staff, fat pensions, blah, blah.

We need to come to a point where cost of a unit of power is same as European average MAX.

Listening to, and pandering to, and allowing time to be wasted, because a noisy minority, with time on their hands, to object to any and all development and progress, just delays the day, when we can have a competitive market in power gen, not bossed by the big fat cat in the field, propped up by the taxpayer.

Greensleeves · 04-06-2013 05:47PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Long term, in many cases, the whole area benefits, from some road improvements done to enable the delivey of large heavy gear to the sites.
There has been great road improvements in this area, on a long stretch of minor roads, including straightening, resurfacing, bridge improvements, etc.

Unfortunately in Killeshin Hills in Laois the construction of a wind farm did not improve the roads and Laois County Council may be left to foot the bill.

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/wind-turbine-road-was-left-in-worst-state-1-4956263

rancher · 04-06-2013 06:31PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Unfortunately in Killeshin Hills in Laois the construction of a wind farm did not improve the roads and Laois County Council may be left to foot the bill.

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/wind-turbine-road-was-left-in-worst-state-1-4956263

If we pay our road tax, we are well entitled to have the roads maintained, we're not a third world country....yet.
Are you going complain about 40 ton milk collection lorries on our narrow roads as well, these travel narrow country roads EVERY day of the year

maidhc · 04-06-2013 06:58PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Power generating in Ireland, is very, very, very far from a normal market:o
ESB, was protected like a baby, for decades since electrification began.
Opening of the market, and introduction of alternative suppliers and generation technologies, is in it's infancy.

Hopefully, and please God, we will come to the point where ESB, will feel the same heat and pressure and competition, from a selection of lean and fit alternative suppliers, that they will have no option but to cut cost, and cut prices.

Like Aer Lingus ............. another (semi-state) shower of wunkers, who made flying the preserve of the rich in this country.
They did ALL, in their power to kill Ryanair in it's infancy, to keep the market a monopoly. Big salaries, high wages, free flights for staff, fat pensions, blah, blah.

We need to come to a point where cost of a unit of power is same as European average MAX.

Listening to, and pandering to, and allowing time to be wasted, because a noisy minority, with time on their hands, to object to any and all development and progress, just delays the day, when we can have a competitive market in power gen, not bossed by the big fat cat in the field, propped up by the taxpayer.

You do realise prices are now higher than before deregulation! And ESB were forced to put up their electricity prices to "encourage" competitors!

Otherwise I agree with you, but wind isn't the answer, nuclear possibly is.

Conmaicne Mara · 04-06-2013 07:01PM

rancher wrote: »

If we pay our road tax, we are well entitled to have the roads maintained, we're not a third world country....yet.
Are you going complain about 40 ton milk collection lorries on our narrow roads as well, these travel narrow country roads EVERY day of the year

You'll get caught out on that argument, there's no such thing.

04-06-2013 07:02PM

I would say the bad winters were a lot of the reason the roads around the wind farm were in tatters, I cycle and drive them now and again and they were never great years ago either.

I would say that the construction was part of the deterioration of the road, it was brutal. Having said that should they rebuild the roads that are crap to begin with ? All Irish back roads are tar and chippings over dirt with no proper foundation or anything.

The location is a few miles outside Carlow Town,

And anyone who thinks turbines are not noisy ? take a spin up to the wind farm there some day they are noisy, and when they change direction they are especially noisy, maybe they solved that it's been a while since I was up there. They are huge. The generators also make noise.

The generators make noise because of the gearbox

04-06-2013 07:02PM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

You'll get caught out on that argument, there's no such thing.

Exactly !

It's Motor tax !

Greensleeves · 13-06-2013 04:47PM

There is a report in the Tullamore Tribune of windfarm meetings in Croghan and Rhode in County Offaly last week. Here's an extract that might be of interest to farmers:

"Stephen Carroll, an activist in the Croghan Community Windfarm Opposition group, chaired the public meetings in Croghan and Rhode last week.
He said the meetings had been very useful in informing local people, including farmers who were considering entering into contracts with the companies, about the dangers of turbines.
A solicitor at the meeting advised landowners to tread carefully before entering into any agreements with wind energy companies.
'There was a lot of farmers with very worried faces when he was finished talking,' said Mr Carroll."

http://www.tullamoretribune.ie/articles/news/34332/councillor-will-oppose-turbines-in-killeigh-and-killurin-areas/

Greensleeves · 08-07-2013 09:20AM

On Friday June 21st over 1,000 people joined a protest outside Dublin Castle against the proposed windfarms for the Irish midlands. The protest was organized by the Midlands Alliance Group comprising community groups from Laois, Offaly and Westmeath. People affected by existing wind farms also attended from Clare, Tyrone, Galway, Cork, Kerry, Armagh, Roscommon, Wexford.

There is a full report on the protest in the Leinster Express.

"There was “palpable anger and incredulity” amongst the crowd of between 1,000 and 2,000 protesters who travelled to Dublin Castle last Friday June 21 to voice their opposition to the 2,000 gigantic wind turbines planned for the midlands."

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/senator-whelan-joins-protest-1-5221186#.UcyZW9j_cJg.twitter

reilig · 08-07-2013 09:35AM

Greensleeves wrote: »

On Friday June 21st over 1,000 people joined a protest outside Dublin Castle against the proposed windfarms for the Irish midlands. The protest was organized by the Midlands Alliance Group comprising community groups from Laois, Offaly and Westmeath. People affected by existing wind farms also attended from Clare, Tyrone, Galway, Cork, Kerry, Armagh, Roscommon, Wexford.

There is a full report on the protest in the Leinster Express.

"There was “palpable anger and incredulity” amongst the crowd of between 1,000 and 2,000 protesters who travelled to Dublin Castle last Friday June 21 to voice their opposition to the 2,000 gigantic wind turbines planned for the midlands."

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/senator-whelan-joins-protest-1-5221186#.UcyZW9j_cJg.twitter

A question.

75,000 people live in the midlands. If only 1000 from 75,000 people came out to protest, what does this mean?

I think that there should be a lot more debate about this from both sides. The side that makes the most noise isn't necessarily the correct one?
Personally I would be more in favour of wind turbines than the refitting of any of the peat fired power stations in the midlands or the gas power station proposed for Kildare. But because they are already there, midlands dwellers are happy to keep them there and prefer to protest against a form of electricity generation that causes far less pollution, is less of an eyesore and doesn't release carcenogenics into the atmosphere that cause cancer!

Then again I don't live in the midlands, but as I said in previous posts, we have large wind turbines close to a property that we own and instead of a nuscence, they are a tourist attraction in the area bringing vital money into the locl economy.

08-07-2013 10:39AM

185 meters tall, it's just a disgrace.

This could meet all our energy needs, Renewable can't replace all the energy sources we have today, Oil, Gas, Diesel, Petrol. If you look at our current electric needs then add transport and heating ? yea you increase your electricity consumption probably 1000 times.

If we are to electrify more and more of our transport over the coming decades do people actually believe a few million turbines will look good in Ireland, and probably many many millions.

Look at this video it's a short but interesting look at L.F.T.R reactor, it needs more research but they will have a few operational in small scale in India and China in the next 2 years or so.

We need scientists to create our energy policies instead of uneducated muppets in Government who have no clue about the technology and think turbines are best, well I know Nuclear will be the next green in the coming decades as we find it hard to keep the lights on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY

grazeaway · 08-07-2013 01:55PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

On Friday June 21st over 1,000 people joined a protest outside Dublin Castle against the proposed windfarms for the Irish midlands. The protest was organized by the Midlands Alliance Group comprising community groups from Laois, Offaly and Westmeath. People affected by existing wind farms also attended from Clare, Tyrone, Galway, Cork, Kerry, Armagh, Roscommon, Wexford.

There is a full report on the protest in the Leinster Express.

"There was “palpable anger and incredulity” amongst the crowd of between 1,000 and 2,000 protesters who travelled to Dublin Castle last Friday June 21 to voice their opposition to the 2,000 gigantic wind turbines planned for the midlands."

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/senator-whelan-joins-protest-1-5221186#.UcyZW9j_cJg.twitter[/QUOTE]

maybe they were pro lifer's and pro choicer's that took a wrong turn and ended up with each other. sure they were bound to be angry then

grazeaway · 08-07-2013 01:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

185 meters tall, it's just a disgrace.

This could meet all our energy needs, Renewable can't replace all the energy sources we have today, Oil, Gas, Diesel, Petrol. If you look at our current electric needs then add transport and heating ? yea you increase your electricity consumption probably 1000 times.

If we are to electrify more and more of our transport over the coming decades do people actually believe a few million turbines will look good in Ireland, and probably many many millions.

Look at this video it's a short but interesting look at L.F.T.R reactor, it needs more research but they will have a few operational in small scale in India and China in the next 2 years or so.

We need scientists to create our energy policies instead of uneducated muppets in Government who have no clue about the technology and think turbines are best, well I know Nuclear will be the next green in the coming decades as we find it hard to keep the lights on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY

apperently india are looking into having a proper commerical scale torioum reactor in next few years. will be intrestign to see how that fairs out. i'd say a lot of countries will watching very closely.

Greensleeves · 08-07-2013 02:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We need scientists to create our energy policies instead of uneducated muppets in Government who have no clue about the technology and think turbines are best, well I know Nuclear will be the next green in the coming decades as we find it hard to keep the lights on.

It is actually worse than that. Some of those dictating our energy policies have a vested interest in wind turbines. The chairman of the government's renewable energy strategy quango, the SEAI (http://www.seai.ie/About_Us/) is former Bord na Mona chairman and onetime Labour Party TD Brendan Halligan. According to the SEAI website:

"... SEAI aims to provide well-timed and informed advice to Government, and deliver a range of programmes efficiently and effectively, while engaging and motivating a wide range of stakeholders and showing continuing flexibility and innovation in all activities."

And of course this "well-timed and informed advice" will line Mr. Halligan's pockets because Mr. Halligan is a shareholder and board member of Mainstream Renewable Power, one of the companies behind the midlands windfarm plans.

It turns out that the first chairman of Mainstream was Fintan Drury; before joining Mainstream he was a member of the board of Anglo-Irish Bank. According to Mainstream's website Fintan Drury remains a shareholder. Through his friendship with Fintan Drury, Sean Fitzpatrick became an investor in Mainstream; he made a €1,000,000 investment into Mainstream Renewable Power in July 2008.

It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

08-07-2013 06:05PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

It is actually worse than that. Some of those dictating our energy policies have a vested interest in wind turbines. The chairman of the government's renewable energy strategy quango, the SEAI (http://www.seai.ie/About_Us/) is former Bord na Mona chairman and onetime Labour Party TD Brendan Halligan. According to the SEAI website:

"... SEAI aims to provide well-timed and informed advice to Government, and deliver a range of programmes efficiently and effectively, while engaging and motivating a wide range of stakeholders and showing continuing flexibility and innovation in all activities."

And of course this "well-timed and informed advice" will line Mr. Halligan's pockets because Mr. Halligan is a shareholder and board member of Mainstream Renewable Power, one of the companies behind the midlands windfarm plans.

It turns out that the first chairman of Mainstream was Fintan Drury; before joining Mainstream he was a member of the board of Anglo-Irish Bank. According to Mainstream's website Fintan Drury remains a shareholder. Through his friendship with Fintan Drury, Sean Fitzpatrick became an investor in Mainstream; he made a €1,000,000 investment into Mainstream Renewable Power in July 2008.

It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

Good research there, well done.

Ireland will never change, it has always and will always be corrupt. Not only that but the powers that be are rotten to the core !!!

I hope that the people of Ireland really stand up to this and not allow it. I can see the 90 turbines from Gortahaile farm in Laois here in the Carlow end of Kildare and they are 15 miles away. 150+ meters ? Jesus Christ almighty !!!

yellow50HX · 09-07-2013 08:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Good research there, well done.

Ireland will never change, it has always and will always be corrupt. Not only that but the powers that be are rotten to the core !!!

I hope that the people of Ireland really stand up to this and not allow it. I can see the 90 turbines from Gortahaile farm in Laois here in the Carlow end of Kildare and they are 15 miles away. 150+ meters ? Jesus Christ almighty !!!

why are you worried about something that is 15 miles away from you? i can see the cooling towers in whitegate and aghada, the oil refinaery in whitegate and used to be able to see the gas being burned off in the old IFI plant in cobh. There is a big hill on the other side of me and i can only see for about a mile or so, or maybe i should get my neighbour to cut down the trees around his house so i can see further???

Greensleeves · 09-07-2013 09:04AM

reilig wrote: »

A question.

75,000 people live in the midlands. If only 1000 from 75,000 people came out to protest, what does this mean?

1,000 people bothering to go to Dublin to protest is actually quite a lot. Considering that this was a grassroots protest where people had to pay their own bus fares, take time off work, find someone to mind their children, etc. There is no IFA or trade union to organise buses, hand out placards and supply refreshments, just concerned citizens standing up for themselves.

The Killucan-Raharney Wind Information Group surveyed 206 homes within 1 km of windfarm boundary and got a 91% Disagreement with the proposals to develop windfarms in the localities proposed (200 out of the 206 homes participated and the survey was open, transparent and followed Mainstream's door-to-door "consultations").

91% against is a fairly emphatic message.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gaybrook-Residents-Against-Wind-Turbines/468756880353?ref=stream&hc_location=stream

Windmills- Corrupt payment for neighbours?

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