AnsaldoBreda's new trains encountering the "wrong kind of snow"?

dowlingm · 21-01-2013 07:36PM #1

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/fyra-halted-by-ice-build-up.html

Maybe...

On January 19 AnsaldoBreda issued a formal apology for the V250 problems, which it said ‘seem to be related to an undue accumulation, under the vehicles, of a big quantity of snow, that turning into ice and detaching during the train running, damaged some parts of the underframe.’ However, it insisted that ‘these setbacks have never affected the safety of the trains or of its passengers’.

Noting that the problems had not emerged during extensive testing of the V250 trainsets at Velim, the Wien Arsenal climate chamber or in the Netherlands, AnsaldoBreda said it was ‘committed to the utmost to solve this unexpected situation’. The supplier ‘immediately’ assembled a team of 40 people to conduct ‘in-depth investigations’ and ‘find the right solution’, dispatching 30 of them to the Netherlands.

But...

Even before the ice and snow problems, only half of all services were arriving within 5 min of right time, although this improved to 71% after changes to the maintenance regime. According to NS Hispeed Managing Director Jan-Willem Siebers, the multi-system trainsets had been experiencing ‘electronic communications failures’ between train and infrastructure, leading to emergency brake applications.

A Dub in Glasgo · 26-01-2013 09:07PM

The 2nd bit is likely to be problems with ETCS level 2, I do remember seeing a report that although the infrastructure in both countries was compliant to EU interoperibility, the 2 systems were at different software levels and I suspect the V250 is not handling the 2 different software levels well

viswijf · 01-06-2013 10:51PM

SNCB the Belguim company have cancelled their order. I hope thats the end of the sorry tale. Even CIE would be embarrassed by the sorry mess of HSL South.

Sorry in Dutch.

Cookie_Monster · 02-06-2013 05:29AM

The wikipedia page for the company is pretty damning reading, you would wonder how they are still operating.

Hungerford · 02-06-2013 11:10AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The wikipedia page for the company is pretty damning reading, you would wonder how they are still operating.

You can admire the high quality of their workmanship at:
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/130531_Fyra_defecten

dowlingm · 02-06-2013 12:56PM

If we can't put together a 20 page thread on the merits of buying the V250 for Irish Rail we will have failed as a board

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-belgium-rail-finmeccanica-idUSBRE94U11520130531
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/05/fury_and_confusion_as_belgium.php

flyingsnail · 02-06-2013 01:51PM

Ugly looking yokes

Fred Swanson · 02-06-2013 02:02PM

This post has been deleted.

gctest50 · 02-06-2013 02:05PM

Sounds like a Fiat from the 1980s

"Descheemaecker listed a long catalogue of failings, including a door coming loose, parts falling off due to ice, a warning horn blocked with snow, an overheating battery, brakes unsuitable for high speed and rust already forming."

What posessed someone to order trains from Italy ? Lovely people but making electrics/things that move just doesn't suit them

A Dub in Glasgo · 02-06-2013 02:32PM

gctest50 wrote: »

What posessed someone to order trains from Italy ? Lovely people but making electrics/things that move just doesn't suit them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino

dowlingm · 02-06-2013 05:46PM

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/26/ansaldobreda-problems-arent-in-los-angeles-alone/

gctest50 · 02-06-2013 06:05PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino

"The low reliability of the timetable and of the ETR 470 has led SBB and Trenitalia to always have a reserve train ready at each terminus of the Milan-Zürich route."

"The Sm3 has received a lot of bad publicity in Finland for its reliability issues, mostly caused by technical problems with the tilting system and couplers"

"Due to the failure of the WCML upgrade to provide in-cab signalling, these units are limited in service to 125 mph (200 km/h) operation rather than their 140 mph (225 km/h) design speed."

A Dub in Glasgo · 02-06-2013 06:09PM

You are really clutching at straws with the WCML bit as that is the failure to provide the infrastructure not the failure of the train!

dowlingm · 03-06-2013 02:30PM

AnsaldoBreda also made the T-68 trams which Metrolink Manchester are phasing out after only 20 years and only a couple of years after some got modifications.

Here's today's Railway Gazette article on the Fyra fiasco:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/sncb-pulls-out-of-v250-deal.html

L1011 · 03-06-2013 10:43PM

Are they not the supplier of the disastrous Danish highspeed diesels also?

Hungerford · 03-06-2013 11:44PM

MYOB wrote: »

Are they not the supplier of the disastrous Danish highspeed diesels also?

Yes - although I hope you are using the word 'supplier' in a loose sense. Of the 83 units ordered by DSB in 2000, 22 are still to be delivered. One completed set was redirected to Libya and given to Gaddafi as a present by Silvio Berlusconi.

Apparently, only a small number of the delivered sets are in service because AnsaldoBreda are having particular trouble with the innovations known as 'coupling' and 'braking'.

ardmacha · 04-06-2013 02:07PM

Even before the ice and snow problems, only half of all services were arriving within 5 min of right time,

I was travelling to Amsterdam in January, when there was no hint of snow (it was like Ireland) and the train was 95 minutes late.

Lovely people but making electrics/things that move just doesn't suit them

This thing moves. Personally, I wouldn't turn one down!
ferrari-458spider-mid-rear-engined-berlinetta-retractable-hardtop.jpg

Buffman · 06-06-2013 04:16PM

Hungerford wrote: »

Yes - although I hope you are using the word 'supplier' in a loose sense. Of the 83 units ordered by DSB in 2000, 22 are still to be delivered. One completed set was redirected to Libya and given to Gaddafi as a present by Silvio Berlusconi.

Apparently, only a small number of the delivered sets are in service because AnsaldoBreda are having particular trouble with the innovations known as 'coupling' and 'braking'.

The story of those IC4s is pretty mental alright, makes the 8200 DART situation look like small potatoes!

As for one of them ending up in Libya without DSB knowing, you couldn't make stuff like that up!

From here:

the train was sent to Libya as an Italian present to the country's leader. The train set is adorned with a message in Arabic, saying “For 40 years’ achievement” – a message thought to be a tribute to Gadaffi. Although the train looks exactly like the other Danish IC4 trains on the outside, the inside is said to be decorated with large white sofas, carpets, curtains and floor lamps.
According to Italian media, the IC4 train was sent to Libya in conjunction with a visit by Berlusconi. Il Denaro newspaper reports that the train was paid for by the Italian government.

Hungerford · 09-06-2013 12:01PM

Just an update - the Fyra project is now dead as the Dutch have also pulled the plug. Meanwhile, the Italians just don't seem to get it and are blaming 'irresponsible driving' for the train failures:
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/06/05/ansaldobreda-blames-irresponsible-driving-for-fyra-failure/

flyingsnail · 09-06-2013 12:15PM

Judging by what I have read in this thread pulling the plug seems like a good idea.

gctest50 · 09-06-2013 07:26PM

Hungerford wrote: »

Just an update - the Fyra project is now dead ...

Progress at last, now we might get nice things on this side of the world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kMFEr7GizcU#t=64s

vs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V250_Interior_1e_klasse_2_2012.jpg

then to make things worse the thing drawing it has heart failure if its asked to do 150mph

dowlingm · 10-06-2013 01:05PM

Hungerford wrote: »

Just an update - the Fyra project is now dead as the Dutch have also pulled the plug. Meanwhile, the Italians just don't seem to get it and are blaming 'irresponsible driving' for the train failures:
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/06/05/ansaldobreda-blames-irresponsible-driving-for-fyra-failure/

I saw some sympathetic press in the Italian papers already. Maybe they should buy them back and use them themselves? :rolleyes:

AnsaldoBreda's new trains encountering the "wrong kind of snow"?

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