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Riots in Turkey.

24

Comments

  • Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't care.

    and yet you posted to subscribe to the thread...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    They should apologise to the state of Armenia before anything. It's comfortable how the world forgets what these Turks tried to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Gweedling


    I've been to Istanbul a few times (Wife is from there) and Taksim is a great part of the city. I can understand them wanting to protect any square inch of greenery in Istanbul, it's a serious concrete jungle.

    The case of the park being turned into the shopping centre is the preverbial backbreaking straw, as the government/PM are rubbish. I have no first hand knowledge of what's going on myself, but had a long chat with a Turkish friend yesterday, he said the only updates he's getting are from facebook/twitter, as there's nothing about it on the Turkish news TV stations or websites.Corruption in this Government is ripe (incumbent government apparently got 50% of the national vote), and it's known that they hate Ataturk. Ataturk is regarded as a demigod over there.

    It's definitely a step backwards culturally for them, and won't help their attempts to join the EU.

    AFAIK the public are currently hoping for a military revolution, where the army essentially boot the government out of office and take over until a new bunch are voted in. Happened 3 or 4 times in Turkey since it became a republic, most recently in the 80s.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    if that's in reference to the Arab spring,you do realise that turkey is in fact a republic right?


    You are joking, aren't you?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    They should apologise to the state of Armenia before anything. It's comfortable how the world forgets what these Turks tried to do.

    Shocking how little attention it gets relative to the Nazi holocausts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Apparently, it was instigated by a crowd of cocky people.


    Your pun was too obscure my friend. I think it went over most people's heads. Either that or they just thought it was shit.

    But I appreciated it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Gweedling


    According to Wifey there's a meeting of Turkish people in Dublin at the GPO today. Might be on the news this evening.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    Update today. It's colder and overcast here but that hasn't stopped tens of thousands of people coming out to the main Taksim/Istiklal street area.

    The police are still nowhere to be seen in the centre, and it's mostly like a street party scene now, although the anti-Erdogan slogans and damage from the riots is everywhere. ATM machines were an especially favourite target.

    A number of shops have re-opened though and there isn't any sign of trouble or looting. There's a lot of solidarity with all kinds of people cheering, chanting slogans and loudly blowing whistles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,434 ✭✭✭cml387


    I can think of many now respectable European countries that have a murky past if you go back 100 years. Or 70 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭PizzamanIRL


    Apparently, it was instigated by a crowd of cocky people.

    That's the worst attempt at humour I've ever seen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    Peanut wrote: »
    Update today. It's colder and overcast here but that hasn't stopped tens of thousands of people coming out to the main Taksim/Istiklal street area.

    Fair play to them - I was little anxious after I found weather reports and this news on RTE: "Clashes subside in Turkey as rain dampens protests". I hope they will follow protests and the pressure will generate some positive changes to this half-democratic country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭halkar


    Gweedling wrote: »
    ...
    AFAIK the public are currently hoping for a military revolution, where the army essentially boot the government out of office and take over until a new bunch are voted in. Happened 3 or 4 times in Turkey since it became a republic, most recently in the 80s.

    Many of the generals of the army with the b@lls are in the jails right now. Akp took care of them long time ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    Just back from Taksim there now. The crowds have dispersed a little but the protesters remaining are more serious and determined.

    There are now organised groups of people creating makeshift roadblocks from any debris they can find. They've used bits of rubble, metal and even managed to move some of the destroyed cars and buses to block the connecting roads.

    http://i.imgur.com/eBkGSbH.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/q1N6e78.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/bZBHvEA.jpg

    (I tried to take photos of the other barriers but was told something in Turkish so decided to quietly back off..!)


    The atmosphere is fairly ominous since the police, currently engaged in nearby Besiktas, are thought to arrive at some point during the night.

    I listened to an educated Turkish guy in his 20s explain to a Jordanian tourist why he was there helping out tonight.

    The tourist seemed a bit put out that his visit to Istanbul had been marred by tear-gas and destruction, and suggested that it was counter-productive to destroy ATM machines and demonstrate in such a central area.

    The Turk replied that the only way of getting media attention was to protest in a symbolic place such as Taksim. Also, there are more cameras present and the risk of the police badly beating people might be less.

    He described how he had been planning to go to different parties this weekend, but ended up bringing people to hospital. He thought at first that he should just get on with his studies, but then the excesses of the police response had changed his mind.

    He said that at first they were using normal teargas, but now he had seen a situation where someone exposed to possibly a new type of gas had started bleeding from their nostrils.

    When the Jordanian asked what he should do now, the reply was - "Go back to your hotel. They (the police) are coming."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Míshásta


    Thanks for your on the spot reports Peanut.

    Keep them up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    Thank you Peanut for your informations. Take care of yourself and hopefully let us know how situation is..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    Thanks zom and Míshásta :)

    Seems like the police didn't dare try to re-take control of the square overnight, perhaps the powers that be finally realised that provoking the situation again would just further count against them. Either that or they haven't a clue what to do next..

    Taksim square and the Gezi park area are jam-packed with crowds right now. There seems to be a lot more people out this evening that perhaps wouldn't have come out during the weekend. Many people are wearing face-masks now due to some enterprising street-vendors selling them at 2 for a (Turkish) fiver. There is the constant whirr of a helicopter with spotlight overhead.

    There is still no sign of the Police here, at least in uniform. I walked past a police station in the center where at first it looked like it was just some guys hanging around but it turned out to be the police in plain clothes, without any of their gear visible.

    The gov. seem to have been well and truly caught out this time and I can't see how they can do much except to hope that the whole thing blows over given time. But even if that is the case, people who might have given their assurances and justifications the benefit of the doubt in the past will surely not do so now.

    The problem for them now is that the longer the protesters hold out, the more the gov. lose face, and being sporting losers is an entirely new concept for them. This might force a confrontation again at some stage.


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  • Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks Peanut :)

    Sky News reporting that the police were/are firing tear gas again tonight. They also said workers are striking today.

    Tbh, I would rather hear about what is happening from you than from Sky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    Thanks :)

    Yeah tear gas is being used again this evening, however this time it seems like no-one is exactly sure where it's coming from. Previously they were just firing it from hand-held launchers, the stuff being used tonight seems like it's designed to be used over a wider area - there was no visible smoke that I could see, but it was just as strong an effect as the earlier gas. Having said that, they are also using the standard tear-gas guns in hotspots.

    Pictures from tonight

    Barricade in Talimhane (across the road from Gezi park)
    http://i.imgur.com/SRGnGyx.jpg

    Inside Gezi park itself
    http://i.imgur.com/m4OBtzo.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/f2G2NGb.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/1rNReoh.jpg (stalls created from Police barriers)
    http://i.imgur.com/zVjKw8F.jpg (this isn't rubbish - the entire wall was full of miscellaneous supplies and twitter hashtags etc. "sağlık ekibi" is health team)
    http://i.imgur.com/NcB6LUx.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/KK3T102.jpg (street vendors didn't miss an opportunity either!)
    http://i.imgur.com/hl642NL.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/6ULvSnr.jpg (I think these ones were for sale instead of free - Milk (for rinsing eyes), Grape and Apple vinegar (counteracts gas when used with mask), water and other alkaline solutions)


    The crowds in the park and on the road towards Beşiktaş were huge, but I'm not sure if this has changed in the past hour and a half or so since I had to go back due to the gas covering a wide area. However, the people in the park are much better prepared this time and have setup stalls with cartons of milk, lemon juice/vinegar and other medical supplies. Also the facemasks were much more easily available today compared to over the weekend, although they don't really help that much when you have to breath in the gas over a long period of time - it starts to irritate your eyes too unless you have goggles or a full setup gas mask (which some people have).

    Outside of the park, at Taksim square and towards Gümüşsuyu and Beşiktaş direction

    http://i.imgur.com/Kmzaxs8.jpg (one of the blockades at Taksim)
    http://i.imgur.com/2CeErDV.jpg (one of buses wrecked on Friday night. Pretty funny actually the "driver" sitting in and the passengers having the lulz! Lots of people were having their photo taken in front of these, I think more for the novelty/shock factor as opposed to anything else)
    http://i.imgur.com/oibyJlH.jpg (this guy looks bored for some reason .. ..car won't start?)
    http://i.imgur.com/srbZqof.jpg (First protester-made blockade at Gümüşsuyu)
    http://i.imgur.com/mZC26zd.jpg (People streaming past)
    http://i.imgur.com/oaGD4oJ.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/Z25b9Hi.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/gpVAVMh.jpg (One of the next blockades)
    http://i.imgur.com/f4KgWqS.jpg (Going down the hill near the German consulate)
    http://i.imgur.com/WeAeI5L.jpg (a number of people have hard hats in addition to gas masks)

    I walked down from Taksim square to the main road towards Beşiktaş İnönü stadium where the trouble was last night (someone had attempted to comandeer a JCB to drive to the PM's office in Beşiktaş but was stopped, the police also strongly gassed protesters situated in the stadium). I counted about 6 or 7 tiers of barricades that had been put up by the protesters, but it looked like it could be too dangerous to continue all the way towards the stadium. There were large crowds of people here, and the smell of gas got stronger further down the hill. It appeared that if there was a sudden push forward by the police at the bottom of the hill, it could get nasty. The latest report is that there is some sort of large fire down there now. (This is the area on Google maps if anyone is curious)

    I turned back towards Taksim and the relatively calm Istiklal street.
    http://i.imgur.com/BNLiWfh.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/j3eLheZ.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/ohKfO91.jpg (a number of people didn't miss an opportunity and were selling chilled cans of beer on the street. These guys were even making cocktails with Vodka and Tequila mixers!)
    http://i.imgur.com/bHMtp10.jpg (various political groups got access to the top of the Ataturk Cultural centre to hang their banners)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    Peanut wrote: »
    http://i.imgur.com/bHMtp10.jpg (various political groups got access to the top of the Ataturk Cultural centre to hang their banners)

    Nice to see people well organised.
    Thank you for this brilliant info, really great piece of journalism and pity I am busy now to enframe it in some blog or something. Maybe someone will?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    I hope @Peanut is fine. Wonder how situation is, media seem to be bored with riots in Turkey. Did public workers really joined the protest?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    Yep, I'm fine thanks :)

    Yeah there is a bit of a lull today, but the stand-off continues. I'm at one of the larger Starbucks on Istiklal street at the opposite end of Taksim, and it's practically empty, which is very unusual since it's usually constantly busy.

    http://i.imgur.com/sgRleLj.jpg

    The main commercial street leading to Taksim is now 90% back to normal. Shop windows and ATM machines have been replaced and repaired with astonishing speed. A lot of the graffiti has been cleaned or painted over with grey. That's not to say that the protests have diminished - it's just that the damage which resulted from the confrontations over the weekend has been mostly fixed.

    At Taksim square itself, it's a different story. All the barricades are still up and there are still crowds of protesters in the square and park.

    The protesters are using Google maps to communicate flashpoints (cyan are police locations, although not sure about the metro station) -

    https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=207368859026831467268.0004de1f7b9f832178431&msa=0&ll=41.037348,28.988028&spn=0.030881,0.062141


    Yeah some of the public workers joined the strike today, although I'm not exactly sure how large a proportion they make up. Unions here are a bit weird, they're more strongly tied to political groups instead of professions, so some people may not join a union if they don't want to be part of that particular group.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Peanut


    I went to have another look at the park tonight. It's much the same as last night, although I think it's starting to have more of an Occupy feel to it - amongst other things, there's perhaps some more tents, a projector showing TV coverage, a sound mixing desk and even a bookstore located there now. Every so often fireworks would go up to cheers from the crowd.

    The pepper-gas is back and it gets more intense in some areas, although the funny thing is that it was actually worse in the Hotel district beside the park compared to inside the park itself.

    I was trying to figure out how it was being dispersed but couldn't come to any definite conclusion. The modus operandi seems to be to release it after midnight to cover the nearby area of the park - however it seemed to miss the mark by a long-shot, and there are dense residential areas very close-by which the wind could easily blow the gas into if the concentration was increased, so it doesn't seem like the strategy is going to be very effective.

    The mood in the park again seems to be both defiant and hopeful. Candles were being lit to spell out a message and I got the impression that there was a lot happening in the background, though I could only take in a small amount of it.


    One other interesting part of these protests is the way different businesses have interacted with the people at their doorstep.

    Various shops and hotels have been either praised or criticised depending on whether they turned their backs on the people on the street, or helped them out. In the case of one cafe chain, "Mado", they were reported to have served free tea to the police at the beginning. When the destructive elements of the riots hit, they came in for an extensive quantity of window-breakage, along with slogans of "That will teach you, Mado" or something to that effect. Mob mentality, but not entirely unexpected.

    At the other end of the spectrum might be the 5-star Divan hotel, located right across the road from the rear access to Gezi park, and owned by the massive Koç holdings conglomerate (pronounced "coach" :pac:). (http://i.imgur.com/FqX8w7T.jpg - main building on the right, pic from last night)

    They had opened their doors to the protesters from near the beginning and continued to do so over the past few days. I walked into the lobby tonight which was busy with protesters coming and going. A girl was either being carried into the hotel for medical attention or being moved somewhere else. It seemed that there may have been some sort of medical staff there. Water and alkaline solutions were available and a number of groups of people were either resting at the lobby seating areas or discussing with each other. A bowl of sliced lemons was sitting at the reception desk.

    No doubt this corporate refusal to tow the line must infuriate the gov., and it will be interesting to see how it might play out. There's a further article on the subject here, Turkey: The economics of #OccupyGezi


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,250 ✭✭✭ardinn


    http://turkishpolicebrutality.tumblr.com/

    Just for the person who said "dont care" earlier - Contains some distressing images - stay safe nut!

    At least 3 fatalities in these pics alone!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭zom


    ardinn wrote: »
    http://turkishpolicebrutality.tumblr.com/

    Just for the person who said "dont care" earlier - Contains some distressing images - stay safe nut!

    At least 3 fatalities in these pic alone!

    If it were pictures from Syria or Iran, all media around the world would be showing this all the time. But regime in Turkey is western ally so they can do what they want with their citizens - western MASSmedia are blind... Disgraceful.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    ardinn wrote: »
    http://turkishpolicebrutality.tumblr.com/

    Just for the person who said "dont care" earlier - Contains some distressing images - stay safe nut!

    At least 3 fatalities in these pic alone!

    This is a disgrace.
    Fair play to the people recording though. Very brave but very important that people could get the full unedited truth.


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