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What would you ask Dublin TDs and councillors about cycling?

  • 30-05-2013 01:42PM
    #1
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    For Cycling in Dublin, I'm doing a quick cycling issues survey of Dublin TDs and councilors... What should I ask them?

    Finalising it tonight.

    What I have in mind includes do you cycle, how often, is enough been done and spent on cycling, etc


«13

Comments

  • #2
    rp
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭rp


    I guess I'd be interested in their predictions for the future of transportation in Dublin, in five, ten and twenty years.
    The effect of rising fuel prices, reduced supply, more people trying to get around the town.
    Do they have a solution? Do they understand the role cycling can play? What has to be kicked-off now to mitigate future problems?


  • #3
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I would ask are there any plans to ban rickshaws or to make registration and licensing and insurance mandatory for these unregulated cycle owners and operators.

    I would also ask is there plans to bring in any rules for cyclists to make wearing a proper helmet mandatory.

    I would also like to see more Guards on bikes taking action against not just motorists but also cyclists who jump lights and put themselves in danger, or cycle up onto footpaths to avoud traffic lights, many cyclists are very responsible but there are far too many who think they own the road as well as the footpaths and who think normal rules of the road do not apply to them.


  • #4
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I'd be curious about the planning that was done around the infrastructure that should support cycling:


    Why try to encourage people to cycle, only to put obstacles in their way meaning they'll need to dismount?

    An example I've seen and found frustrating, is prevalent on the cycle paths along the Grand Canal between Inchicore and Clondalkin in particular. Every 5 minutes needing to dismount and hobble between a gap.

    Cycling lanes, also doubling up as parking spaces.

    Cycling paths, merging with the road unnecessarily at intersections.

    I should be able to continue on if I'm separate from road traffic and don't need to go with it. A pedestrian doesn't need to wait for a light to go green to turn left with the path, or to keeping walking straight when there's a minor road on the far side of a T-Junction.


    It always appears that the cyclist itself is an afterthought when it comes to these kind of things.


  • #5
    Rogue-Trooper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭Rogue-Trooper


    Do they have any plans to tackle the issue of bicycle theft in Dublin?

    Do they have any plans to repeat the secure bicycle park facility in Drury Street car park in other city centre areas?

    Would they consider cycling the more popular bicycle commuter routes themselves to see the issues faced by cyclists (eg, pot holes / iron mongery / cars parked in cycle lanes / ill-conceived crossing points / etc, etc)?


    Good luck with it!


  • #6
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I would also ask is there plans to bring in any rules for cyclists to make wearing a proper helmet mandatory.

    Don't want to turn this into a helmet debate but why would you ask that?

    With Dublin Bikes now extending to Heuston I'd ask how long before we get a proper cycleway along the quays, similar to the one on the Grand Canal? I'd also ask how far along is the Portobello to Inchicore cycleway project along?

    I'd also ask why the RSA refuse to update the "Rules of the Road" in line with the amendments to the Road Traffic Act made last October. Special mention there to the fact that it's no longer mandatory for cyclists to use cycle lanes.

    I could probably come up with a hundred other things to say but I'll leave it at that. Best of luck anyway Monument.


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  • #7
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,063 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    From the perspective of a motorist....

    Would they encourage the Gardai to prosecute cyclists who persist in crashing red lights?

    I know motorists are constantly crashing lights just as they turn red, I'm talking about cyclists who come up to a red light and blithely sail through with barely a glance as if it doesn't apply to them.

    And from the perspective of a pedestrian....

    Would they encourage the Gardai to enforce the traffic by-laws and prosecute people who ride bikes on public footpaths?

    At this stage I'm constantly looking behind me for fear some nutter on a bike is coming from behind at top speed and will whack into me if I deviate from one side of the footpath to the other. Motorists require rear-view mirrors, pedestrians shouldn't need them.


  • #8
    Rock of Gibraltar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭Rock of Gibraltar


    It would be interesting to ask what they think the main issues regarding cycling in Dublin are, just to see what kind of grasp officialdom has on riding around Dublin.


  • #9
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Would they not consider "free" cycle training for school children as per Cyclist.ie 's position and to get Devereux to pay for it as part of their extension policy, after all the more cyclists the more Devereux and DCC make.


  • #10
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    I'd ask if they believe Fixed Penalty Notices are worthwhile and if yes, how they think the issue can be brought to the fore and eventually implemented?


  • #11
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Why do they instal cycle lanes on roads where people just park there cars in them permanently.
    Why do they still allow newly built roads to not have enough space for cycle tracks.
    Have they ever cycled to work, if not why not.
    Could they put together a map of all cycle tracks and recommended routes for cyclists within their electoral area.
    Can a 1 parking space with facilities to park 10 bikes be compulsory to every 100 car parking spaces within shopping centres and public parking areas.


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  • #12
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,740 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Do any of them use Strava? :P
    What, if any, feedback or comments do they tend to receive from the public re cycling in Dublin - is it generally policy, problems, suggestions, complaints etc?

    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I would ask that because i believe it should be mandatory for all cyclists countrywide to wear a helmet and there should be some way found of providing them with the Dublin Bikes scheme. they are mandatory already in many countries and reduce head injuries significantly.

    Auckland and Melbourne both have similar schemes to Dublin, both launched around similar times. Both have been a disaster because helmets are mandatory and people don't want to wear them, where as the Dublin scheme is already way over capacity due to it's popularity.

    You can continue to believe what you want, the stats clearly say otherwise and making drivers wear helmets would have a far far far bigger impact.


  • #13
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    BenShermin wrote: »
    Show conclusive proof that helmets reduce head injuries significantly. Helmets are absolutely no use if you're rammed down by a car, bus etc at any significant speed.

    All the mandatory helmet law in Australia has reduced is the number of the cyclists on the road. This reduction in cyclists has meant that motorists are less aware of cyclists, in the long run this has made the roads less safe for cyclists.

    While you're at it Foggy, please explain why Netherlands and Denmark are the safest countries in the world to cycle in when 99% of cyclists in these countries don't wear helmets??

    PS. Monument sorry for derailing the thread, feel free to move these posts if you want.

    Maybe the cyclists there have a bit more cop on than those here. Maybe they ride in the bike lane in the direction of traffic movement and not towards oncoming traffic just because its a cycle path.


  • #14
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    monument wrote: »
    For Cycling in Dublin, I'm doing a quick cycling issues survey of Dublin TDs and councilors... What should I ask them?

    Finalising it tonight.

    What I have in mind includes do you cycle, how often, is enough been done and spent on cycling, etc

    I think it might be more revealing to come at this from a different angle. The important issue to establish is "what is their attitude to car culture and car promotion". You cannot have a succesful walking and cycling policy unless there is a political acceptance of a need to challenge a car-focused approach to transport management and policing.

    The fact that politician x may profess to cycle is of little value if they are not prepared to challenge "recieved wisdom" on traffic management and policing. Are our political leaders prepared to take positions that are possibly unpopular with the car lobby and their supporters in the media etc?


  • #15
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    coylemj wrote: »
    From the perspective of a motorist....

    Would they encourage the Gardai to prosecute cyclists who persist in crashing red lights?

    I know motorists are constantly crashing lights just as they turn red, I'm talking about cyclists who come up to a red light and blithely sail through with barely a glance as if it doesn't apply to them.

    And from the perspective of a pedestrian....

    Would they encourage the Gardai to enforce the traffic by-laws and prosecute people who ride bikes on public footpaths?

    At this stage I'm constantly looking behind me for fear some nutter on a bike is coming from behind at top speed and will whack into me if I deviate from one side of the footpath to the other. Motorists require rear-view mirrors, pedestrians shouldn't need them.

    A few months ago lots of cyclists were cracked down on and lots of fines were issued. Hopefully this will persist.


  • #16
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    A researcher in the UK did an experiment, he attached a device to his bike that measured how close vehicles were from the bike.

    He then cycled in three ways, no helmet, helmet and a fake long hair female wig.

    Vehicles gave him by far the greatest amount of space when they thought he was a female cyclist and only slightly less when a guy not wearing a helmet.

    When wearing a helmet they gave him significantly less space, in fact he got clipped twice by a vehicle when wearing a helmet (and never when not).

    Almost all research into cycling has found that other then kids, helmets have little impact in improving road safety. What has been found time and time again to improve cyclist safety is a critical mass of cyclists. The more cyclists there are on the roads, then the more careful motorists act.

    Stupid high vis vests and helmets make cycling look much more dangerous then it actually is and scares people away. That is why the cycling ads in the Netherlands always show pretty young girls, in normal clothes, riding city bikes with no helmets and no high vis rubbish.

    It has worked for them spectacularly.

    It is also why the Dublin Bike Scheme has been such a fantastic success, you now have way more people cycling around town, in normal day to day clothes, with no helmets etc. For the first time it is helping Irish people to understand that cycling can be a fun, safe and hip activity. It has promoted so many more people to go cycling and has made our roads safer for cyclists thanks to the effect of more cyclists on our streets.


  • #17
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,320 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Certainly from having driven the streets of Dublin for 5 years, the three things I believe cyclists need more than anything are...
    • Space, same as any other road user.
    • Respect, same as any other road user.
    • Road smarts, same as any other road user.

    I've seen so so much of a lot of lack of all three and while a great many motorist make it hard for them the truth is that cyclists are their own most dangerous enemy out there in the main and they make it more dangerous for themselves on a daily basis. There is a dire need for cycling awareness and skills to be taught which are badly needed ASAP, cycle lanes or no cycle lanes.

    And these apply to all road users, not just those on 2 wheels.


  • #18
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    A few months ago lots of cyclists were cracked down on and lots of fines were issued. Hopefully this will persist.
    Hopefully errant motorists will get the same treatment.


  • #19
    tampopo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭tampopo


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I'd be curious about the planning that was done around the infrastructure that should support cycling:


    Why try to encourage people to cycle, only to put obstacles in their way meaning they'll need to dismount?

    An example I've seen and found frustrating, is prevalent on the cycle paths along the Grand Canal between Inchicore and Clondalkin in particular. Every 5 minutes needing to dismount and hobble between a gap.



    It always appears that the cyclist itself is an afterthought when it comes to these kind of things.

    You don't need to dismount if you know how to use them. They were designed so you don't have to dismount.


  • #20
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Certainly from having driven the streets of Dublin for 5 years, the three things I believe cyclists need more than anything are...
    • Space, same as any other road user.
      [<snip>
      And these apply to all road users, not just those on 2 wheels.

    Whatever happened to those give me space lollipop markers, one minute they were here the next gone... Did they not work or were they just too uncool to be seen with?

    crswing_safety_wing-300x300.jpg


  • #21
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    tampopo wrote: »
    You don't need to dismount if you know how to use them. They were designed so you don't have to dismount.

    For many bicycles you do need to dismount and for others you won't get by the barriers.


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  • #22
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    tampopo wrote: »
    You don't need to dismount if you know how to use them. They were designed so you don't have to dismount.

    My bike doesn't fit straight through the gap. I have to stand off it, then wiggle the handle bars through it.


  • #23
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,320 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Whatever happened to those give me space lollipop markers, one minute they were here the next gone... Did they not work or were they just too uncool to be seen with?

    crswing_safety_wing-300x300.jpg

    Too cool for school, I'd say.


  • #24
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Too cool for school, I'd say.

    Too low. Drivers are looking out for hand signals that'll be higher and in a more prominent line of sight.


  • #25
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Too low. Drivers are looking out for hand signals that'll be higher and in a more prominent line of sight.

    Those yokes were to force drivers to give you at least a tiny min width when overtaking.


  • #26
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    monument wrote: »
    Those yokes were to force drivers to give you at least a tiny min width when overtaking.

    The problem I've seen in that regards isn't the distance while being overtaken, it's rush back to hugging the kerb right after they've gone by.


  • #27
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Maybe the cyclists there have a bit more cop on than those here. Maybe they ride in the bike lane in the direction of traffic movement and not towards oncoming traffic just because its a cycle path.

    Nope, on most streets in Belgium and Netherlands you're allowed by law to cycle against the flow of traffic on one way streets and it doesn't compromise safety. You're allowed to do it on contra flow cycle lanes in Dublin, but these lanes are usually blocked by pig ignorant motorists who think its alright to park on them.


  • #28
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Anyway, before I get infracted, my own tuppence worth is that you should ask your TD who is responsible for wasting hard-earned public money on ROTTEN cycling infrastructure, and rotten road infrastructure in general.

    I know there is not always the space. That is plain to understand. But rubbish cycle lanes are regularly shoehorned in where there is no space, and where there is ample space, rotten cycle lanes are designed which go up and down, in and out, left and right, stop and start, and for which the 'engineers' responsible should be strung up on a pole, overlooking their own rotten handiwork. Is it any wonder cyclists won't use it?

    Ask that of your TD.


  • #29
    NoelRockDublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭NoelRockDublin


    Have to say, as someone who ran for Dublin City Council before and take a great interest in local issues, I found this thread to be an interesting approach.

    Personally, I think that cycle lanes along the lines of those on the Grand Canal are close to what we should be looking at, with an initial demand of having such built - where practical - on routes going to and from the City Centre. Maybe six trial routes like this and then an impact assessment of how much it has increased cycling as a viable commute option and going from there.

    So, in short, what would I ask? What their view on cycling is in the context of a wider public transport plan, and what have they done to increase the numbers of people cycling to and from work? Finally, as a Cllr, have they ever cycled to City Hall from their home and, if not, why not?


  • #30
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    To get back to the original question, cycling (and pedestrians) need to become the primary focus of all city council thinking.

    That is what happened in Amsterdam and Copenhagen, they decided to focus on cycling and pedestrians (above cars and even public transport) as their primary focus and put all their energy into making their cities cycling and walking friendly.

    That won't happen here as the city councils get so much of their revenue from car parking. Because of this, cars will continue to be encouraged into our cities and space given up to them.

    Instead we will continue to get token gestures of lines on the streets which are completely useless to cyclists.


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  • #31
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Helmet posts moved here.

    While further discussion is very welcome here, it's worth noting that the Dublin TDs and councillors survey is live and questions can't be added at this point. Thanks for all the feedback. If anybody wants to there's still no harm still saying what you'd ask them.


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