Alcohol restrictions on Dublin-Waterford train services

Judgement Day · 28-05-2013 05:14PM

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

IE don't set the prices. It's outsourced to Rail Gourmet.

Yes, outsourcing - just like the way closing down the railways has been outsourced to the NTA. Removes responsibility from those who should be exercising it.

Michael D Not Higgins · 28-05-2013 05:23PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, outsourcing - just like the way closing down the railways has been outsourced to the NTA. Removes responsibility from those who should be exercising it.

I think it was more due to the fact that they were losing money on it. It's also why the prices increased after rail gourmet took over

end of the road · 28-05-2013 05:28PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

If someone can't last a 2/3 hour train journey without needing a drink then they have a problem.

somehow i knew someone was going to make that statement, its the usual one religious extremists use to support the backward law in relation to pubs on good friday, you would sware anyone who drinks on a train or good friday is some raving alcoholic, some might be but as we can see the nanny state solution which we currently have is a failure

Fred Swanson · 28-05-2013 05:33PM

This post has been deleted.

Judgement Day · 28-05-2013 05:35PM

Why not people who wear loud trousers?

end of the road · 28-05-2013 05:57PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

it shouldn't have been, used to love the smoking carrige, great craic down there as a young fella (all though i didn't smoke myself) unless you live out in the country your breathing in smoke from the minute you step outside your house

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

in ireland its a vital component to pass the time on public transport on a long journey as it can take so bluddy long

BenShermin · 28-05-2013 06:14PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Ireland can't afford the police we have never mind a dedicated transport police/corps. There is noisy/unsettling/boisterous/rowdy behaviour every weekend on the Waterford trains because the security on board is useless and people spike bottles of coke with vodka and drink from paper cups topping up with the cans hidden in their bags!

We can't afford a transport police yet we can afford to hire a next to useless outsourced security firm. Makes sense!

foggy_lad · 28-05-2013 06:48PM

BenShermin wrote: »

We can't afford a transport police yet we can afford to hire a next to useless outsourced security firm. Makes sense!

A couple of cheap security guards is nothing compared to the cost of emloying and equipping a dedicated transport police!

bk · 28-05-2013 09:49PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

A couple of cheap security guards is nothing compared to the cost of emloying and equipping a dedicated transport police!

The transport police in the UK are fully paid for by British Rail, airports, airlines etc.

Rather then paying for stupid STT security, plus separate ticket inspectors, plus separate inspectors, instead have the Airport Police turned into a transport police service with increased powers and also paid for by Irish Rail, BE, DB, private companies, etc.

These transport police officers could not only, carry out security duties, but also ticket checking, etc.

Even if it meant fewer transport police then the combined numbers of STT, ticket checkers, etc. they would be a lot more effective and thus worth it.

Also take into account that you wouldn't need the Gardai, patrolling Connolly, Heuston, etc. any more. It is crazy that I often see Gardai, STT and ticket checkers all doing almost the same redundant job in these stations!

Note it typically doesn't cost quite as much to train a transport police officer as a regular officer, for while they have the same powers of arrest, they typically aren't trained to the same high standards as regular police officers, with training in investigative duties, firearms, etc.

Hilly Bill · 28-05-2013 10:10PM

STT security are no longer working for Irish Rail.

foggy_lad · 28-05-2013 10:11PM

bk wrote: »

The transport police in the UK are fully paid for by British Rail, airports, airlines etc.

Rather then paying for stupid STT security, plus separate ticket inspectors, plus separate inspectors, instead have the Airport Police turned into a transport police service with increased powers and also paid for by Irish Rail, BE, DB, private companies, etc.

These transport police officers could not only, carry out security duties, but also ticket checking, etc.

Even if it meant fewer transport police then the combined numbers of STT, ticket checkers, etc. they would be a lot more effective and thus worth it.

Also take into account that you wouldn't need the Gardai, patrolling Connolly, Heuston, etc. any more. It is crazy that I often see Gardai, STT and ticket checkers all doing almost the same redundant job in these stations!

Note it typically doesn't cost quite as much to train a transport police officer as a regular officer, for while they have the same powers of arrest, they typically aren't trained to the same high standards as regular police officers, with training in investigative duties, firearms, etc.

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

foggy_lad · 28-05-2013 10:14PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

STT security are no longer working for Irish Rail.

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

Hilly Bill · 28-05-2013 10:16PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

At least the Juice bar staff was safe

Jamie2k9 · 28-05-2013 10:28PM

Rather then paying for stupid STT security

no point in calling them stupid, its not their fault that they have no powers.

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

Foggy you'd only love if they started chatting you up

flazio · 28-05-2013 10:32PM

I seem to recall that trains are one of the places allowed to sell alcohol on Good Friday, is this correct?

Fred Swanson · 28-05-2013 10:36PM

This post has been deleted.

markpb · 28-05-2013 11:06PM

For a little context around paying for a transport police,

The Board approved a contract not to exceed $83.85 million with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to provide law enforcement services for Metro between July 1, 2013, and June 30, 2014.

link

Obviously LA county is twice the size of Ireland but it's not an insignificant amount of money.

_Kaiser_ · 29-05-2013 12:13AM

end of the road wrote: »

somehow i knew someone was going to make that statement, its the usual one religious extremists use to support the backward law in relation to pubs on good friday, you would sware anyone who drinks on a train or good friday is some raving alcoholic, some might be but as we can see the nanny state solution which we currently have is a failure

Oh dear, you are wayyy off. Atheist for the record! AND I enjoy a social drink myself!

But since you brought up Good Friday it's another good example of my point - this Irish "need" to have a drink that is almost comparable to the American "right to bear arms" that gets them so worked up too. For what it's worth I think anyone should be able to have a drink on "Good" Friday if they choose, but that's very different to being on a train with kids and others around.

But hey, end of the day it's not going to affect me .. paying overpriced fares to sit there listening to a hen/stag party/bunch of kids getting pissed on cans and disrupting everyone else is not my idea of a relaxing journey.. I'll stick to the car and be in the pub before ye get off if I fancied it

hfallada · 29-05-2013 12:19AM

markpb wrote: »

For a little context around paying for a transport police,

link

Obviously LA county is twice the size of Ireland but it's not an insignificant amount of money.

LA is the gang capital of the world with a huge amount of crime and drug trafficking. Half of new build homes in California are in gated communities. Plus if you are wearing a suit and white and using public transport in LA the people assume your a drink drive with no license.

I have seen the u Bahn in the poorest city in western Germany (duisburg, it's the Detroit of Germany). They were no barriers in the station as they assume you would pay for a ticket. Countries are different and difficult to compare

BenShermin · 29-05-2013 01:49AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

Doesn't mean it has to be the same here. Revenue protection could fall under the remit of an Irish transport police if the powers that be added it to the list of their duties.

BenShermin · 29-05-2013 01:59AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

Unfortunately I have to agree with Foggy here. I had bad experiences with STT back in my train-spotting days. The worst incident was when I was taking photos of an 071 in Heuston and got a serious telling off by these jobsworths for doing so. Around ten metres away from me there was junkies shooting up but they decided my crime of photographing was much worse. They were nothing but bullies in my mind and I'd be delighted if IÉ did in fact get rid of them.

I like to compare that to the BTP in the UK, they actively encourage train enthusiasts onto stations. The way they see it is anti-social behaviour is less likely if there's somebody on the station with a camera.

Cookie_Monster · 29-05-2013 03:05AM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

:rolleyes:

It's fairly standard to serve / allow alcohol on trains the world over, why shouldn't it be allowed in Ireland in particular?

dowlingm · 29-05-2013 03:45AM

Can be a lot of tension between transport police and the guards, only have to look at Dublin Airport. The cops in Toronto aren't fans either.

THall04 · 29-05-2013 04:20AM

About ten years ago I was a regular user of the Sunday evening service from Waterford to Dublin.
Back then it was the same story every week.....Waterford to Kilkenny was a peaceful , un-eventful 30 min journey.
But from Kilkenny to Dublin , the train would be crowded with noisy drunks shoutin' and roaring their heads off.

Not sure if this alcohol ban is a new thing....thought the IE staff used to leave out notices about no drinking on that service.......not that it did any good.

LXFlyer · 29-05-2013 07:27AM

dowlingm wrote: »

Can be a lot of tension between transport police and the guards, only have to look at Dublin Airport. The cops in Toronto aren't fans either.

I've never heard of any tension between the British Transport Police and local constabularies. They are a fully fledged constabulary in their own right with the same powers.

bk · 29-05-2013 07:51AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

Again as I said, get rid of the private security and ticket checkers and revenue protection units * and replace them with transport police with real powers. Would be far more effective.

* You could give them bonuses based on the number of people they catch and partly pay for the service based on this.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

They do in the US. In fact in New York I believe they consider ticket fraud to be theft and handcuff you and make you wait on the platform handcuffed while everyone passes by until the police van arrives to pick you up for processing.

Doing that here I think would quickly reduce the amount of fare evasion.

dazberry · 29-05-2013 09:40AM

I enjoyed a beer on the train going "down the country" on Saturday - obviously not on the Dublin-Waterford line, where I sat quietly reading a magazine while sipping that beer. Indeed I also enjoyed a beer on Sunday on "the way back up", while quietly browsing the Internet on my tablet. In retrospect I would like to apologise for this abhorrent behavior

D.

Del2005 · 29-05-2013 06:43PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

It doesn't matter how many people live in a country if there's no law that can deal with them, just look at the great Luas Red line. STT have no power, apart from asking you to leave the station/platform, to do anything to trouble makers. If we had a transport police they could remove/arrest/fine them.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

They'd be our police so we can let them do as we want.

BenShermin wrote: »

Unfortunately I have to agree with Foggy here. I had bad experiences with STT back in my train-spotting days. The worst incident was when I was taking photos of an 071 in Heuston and got a serious telling off by these jobsworths for doing so. Around ten metres away from me there was junkies shooting up but they decided my crime of photographing was much worse. They were nothing but bullies in my mind and I'd be delighted if IÉ did in fact get rid of them.

I like to compare that to the BTP in the UK, they actively encourage train enthusiasts onto stations. The way they see it is anti-social behaviour is less likely if there's somebody on the station with a camera.

And here is the problem with private security. They can't go near the scumbags as they've no power to do anything but ask them to leave so they go after the "soft" option of customer/public.

If STT( or any private security operating on critical public infrastructure) had power to forcefully remove and then actively ban people from public transport then they'd be OK, but we have the worst option where the scumbags know the private security can't do anything to them so do as they please.

end of the road · 29-05-2013 08:30PM

Del2005 wrote: »

If STT( or any private security operating on critical public infrastructure) had power to forcefully remove and then actively ban people from public transport then they'd be OK

in fairness i think its perfectly right that private security don't have any powers, only a police force should have powers, transport or otherwise

Hilly Bill · 29-05-2013 09:02PM

Del2005 wrote: »

It doesn't matter how many people live in a country if there's no law that can deal with them, just look at the great Luas Red line. STT have no power, apart from asking you to leave the station/platform, to do anything to trouble makers. If we had a transport police they could remove/arrest/fine them.

They'd be our police so we can let them do as we want.

And here is the problem with private security. They can't go near the scumbags as they've no power to do anything but ask them to leave so they go after the "soft" option of customer/public.

If STT( or any private security operating on critical public infrastructure) had power to forcefully remove and then actively ban people from public transport then they'd be OK, but we have the worst option where the scumbags know the private security can't do anything to them so do as they please.

They do have, in the same way bouncers remove someone from a club.

Alcohol restrictions on Dublin-Waterford train services

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