Alcohol restrictions on Dublin-Waterford train services

ongarboy

Interesting update on the IR website about alcohol restrictions on Dublin Waterford services only. I wonder why this is only an issue on this route and at those times and not any other routes. Surely, passengers from the south east are not more prone to disruptive booze fueled behaviour than those from other areas??

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4829&p=116&n=237

In response to customer feedback, the consumption and carriage of alcohol on the 13:15 and 15:10 Dublin to Waterford services on Fridays is prohibited from 31st May 2013 onwards.

This follows repeated instances of groups disturbing other customers on board these specific services due to excessive alcohol consumption.

This is in addition to existing alcohol restrictions on Sundays on the 12.40, 15.10 and 18.05 Waterford to Dublin services.

Owryan

Think it has/had something to do with stag and hen nights travelling to kilkenny. Often had to endure their merriment till the ban was enforced.

loyatemu

should ban it altogether - are you allowed get on an intercity bus with a bag of cans?

Captain Chaos

loyatemu wrote: »

should ban it altogether - are you allowed get on an intercity bus with a bag of cans?

You are not allowed to do that on the train either but it's somehow ok to drink if you buy the drink on the train. Irish Rail have signs all over saying no consumption of alcohol on any station or train. Yet it's fine if the station has a bar, like Connolly or if you buy the drink from the catering trolly. Perfect sense there alright.

Judgement Day

Captain Chaos wrote: »

You are not allowed to do that on the train either but it's somehow ok to drink if you buy the drink on the train. Irish Rail have signs all over saying no consumption of alcohol on any station or train. Yet it's fine if the station has a bar, like Connolly or if you buy the drink from the catering trolly. Perfect sense there alright.

In fairness, you would be doing well to get drunk on the paltry quantity of drink available on the poison trolley - not to mention flush with money.

RonanM123

No drink is sold on board the above services.

Think it has/had something to do with stag and hen nights travelling to kilkenny

I often think its the ones going to Carlow and Waterford that are much worse than those going to Kilkenny.

BenShermin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

You are not allowed to do that on the train either but it's somehow ok to drink if you buy the drink on the train. Irish Rail have signs all over saying no consumption of alcohol on any station or train. Yet it's fine if the station has a bar, like Connolly or if you buy the drink from the catering trolly. Perfect sense there alright.

Is there any truth to this statement?

I know you're not allowed to drink on Dart or Commuter services. But in years of using Irish Rail intercity services I've never once ran into problems with staff for bringing my own beer on board. On the contrary actually, the ticket inspector usually joked that he'd love a beer or two himself when he was checking my ticket.

foggy_lad

You are not alllowed drink on dart or commuter services but it is allowed on most intercity trains. You are allowed bring your own drinks onto these trains.

_Kaiser_

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

thomasm

RonanM123 wrote: »

No drink is sold on board the above services.



I often think its the ones going to Carlow and Waterford that are much worse than those going to Kilkenny.

What do you base that on. Have had the misfortune to encounter a few stag parties in Kilkenny and they were just as bad as anything I'd seen anywhere else

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Hasn't stopped any hen or stag I've had the misfortune to share a Waterford train on a Sunday from drinking. I pity any poor worker whod take it upon themselves to enforce it tbh.

foggy_lad

thomasm wrote: »

What do you base that on. Have had the misfortune to encounter a few stag parties in Kilkenny and they were just as bad as anything I'd seen anywhere else

Most hen parties go to Kilkenny and the stag parties go to Carlow or Waterford.

Owryan

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

Group of youngsters removed from the 14.11 train from Carlow to Kilkenny last thurs for drinking and being rowdy. Nice to see but pity it doesnt happen more often

MrDerp

It's only a pity that we always have a very small minority in Ireland that take the pi$$ and ruin our ability to enjoy a drink in a public space. I mean, imagine if we had central squares in our cities with loads of seating outside bars (leave the weather out for a second) - it would attract the worst element of our society and we'd regularly have chairs and tables flying across the square.

I've seen a lot of Central Europeans have a can or bottle on their way home from work, be it walking or taking public transport. Even if there's 3 or 4 of them they'd be quietly having a drink on their way home - no need for banter, slapping eachother, roaring etc. They drink just as much as we do, but somehow they can drink outdoors responsibly.

I'm fairly libertarian in general, but I have wonder is it the very real threat of a hiding from police the difference. People here are pretty untouchable for minor offenses.

Judgement Day

We also have an invisible police presence that only shows up after something has happened.

ArmaniJeanss

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

You make it sound like it's only Ireland where you can drink on an intercity train journey, its a perfectly normal thing in most of Europe.

bikeman1

You are perfectly entitled to bring drinks on board and consume on an Intercity train apart from the restrictions on the Waterford line.

I have done so on many occasions over the years of travelling across the country. The Bye Laws say you are not allowed to become intoxicated and if you do you can be removed from the railway.

There is no better way to travel after a long week in work, heading away for the weekend with a few mates, relaxing having a few quiet drinks and arriving to your destination without the stress of driving.

As always in this country there is a sector of society that ruins everything for those who are able to control themselves and enjoy a drink but not too excess. Why can't I walk into a bar at 4am and have a drink if I wish? Why are there no off sales after 10pm? Why is there no drink on certain Waterford trains?

Because some people are irresponsible and shouldn't be allowed to drink in the first place. That does not mean the rest of us should be subject to a nanny state that is not actually solving any of the problems with the current rules in place.

monument

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

DB Bahn's intercity services serve drink.

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "German alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

:rolleyes:

loyatemu

at least if people are drinking from the onboard catering, they can be refused any more booze if they're drunk (and you'd be hard-pressed to get very drunk on small overpriced bottles of Heineken).

Its people piling on with rucksacks full of beer that generally cause the trouble.

I generally don't agree with placing restrictions on the majority to prevent troublemaking by a minority (the off-license and licensing hours laws here are daft), but a train is a confined space - if you're stuck beside some drunken fool on a crowded train you can't just get up and leave.

gobnaitolunacy

bikeman1 wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to bring drinks on board and consume on an Intercity train apart from the restrictions on the Waterford line.

I have done so on many occasions over the years of travelling across the country. The Bye Laws say you are not allowed to become intoxicated and if you do you can be removed from the railway.

There is no better way to travel after a long week in work, heading away for the weekend with a few mates, relaxing having a few quiet drinks and arriving to your destination without the stress of driving.

As always in this country there is a sector of society that ruins everything for those who are able to control themselves and enjoy a drink but not too excess. Why can't I walk into a bar at 4am and have a drink if I wish? Why are there no off sales after 10pm? Why is there no drink on certain Waterford trains?

Because some people are irresponsible and shouldn't be allowed to drink in the first place. That does not mean the rest of us should be subject to a nanny state that is not actually solving any of the problems with the current rules in place.

I feel your pain, but because we have a small percentage of utter fcukwits everyone gets the nanny treatment, whether we like it or not, else you'll get puke and p*ss stained trains filled with animals that no-one wants to travel in.

Try that cr*p in ze Fatherland and you'll quickly see the difference between the soft touch Irish cops and German Police. Likewise when our party animals reach the Antipodes, it comes as somewhat of a shock to them to find out that the Aussie Police have a low tolerance to drunken public behaviour.

therewillbe

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

or whilst the Train is moving!

foggy_lad

loyatemu wrote: »

at least if people are drinking from the onboard catering, they can be refused any more booze if they're drunk (and you'd be hard-pressed to get very drunk on small overpriced bottles of Heineken).

Its people piling on with rucksacks full of beer that generally cause the trouble.

I generally don't agree with placing restrictions on the majority to prevent troublemaking by a minority (the off-license and licensing hours laws here are daft), but a train is a confined space - if you're stuck beside some drunken fool on a crowded train you can't just get up and leave.

They sell expensive cans of bud and bulmers at the moment:D but there is no reason why alcohol should be allowed on any public transport including specials, If people are that desperate they should get off the train in Athy and head to Cuan Mhuire

dowlingm

I think people could get behind a system where as a matter of safety alcohol could be consumed on board but only when served by an onboard employee - as on aircraft. Even then you do see planes diverting the odd time due unruly passengers so we can't expect IE not to have the odd problem as long as they are acting to minimise it. IE would have give up some margin on the sale so that the reaction wasn't simply "IE trying to gouge more money out of us" but that would be made up for in part by additional volume sold. They might also have to consider putting on trolley service on additional trains if people complained that IE was taking away the option to bring on board without providing the option themselves.

Fred Swanson

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ArmaniJeanss

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Simple, yet completely incorrect solution.

_Kaiser_

monument wrote: »

DB Bahn's intercity services serve drink.

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "German alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

:rolleyes:

Riiight.. so because someone else does it, that makes it ok does it?

There's no reason for alcohol to be served/consumed on trains given the hassle it can lead to (as evidenced by comments above).

I personally wouldn't want to be in a carriage with a load of lads/girls drinking cans and getting increasingly disruptive nor would I want to bring a child on such a journey.

If someone can't last a 2/3 hour train journey without needing a drink then they have a problem.

TINA1984

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Simple but not inexpensive solution to follow on from that, have a transport police in place to deal with groups of shams & scobes who might get antsy when told they can't drink their tins on the train.

ballooba

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ridiculous policy altogether that only reinforces the old "Irish alcoholic" stereotype. It's 2013 FFS!

Should be no alcohol served/consumed on ANY form of public transport - anyone caught drinking should be ejected at the next station.

You try telling that to the folks enjoying quelques verres de vin on the Eurostar back to London. I imagine you would get short shrift.

BenShermin

I find it hard to believe some of the attitudes on this thread. I can't name a country in Europe where it's not acceptable to enjoy a beer on an intercity train. Yes cultures are different on the continent. Britain however shares the same rowdy culture towards alcohol as we do, difference over there is that the British Transport Police will be waiting for you at the next station if you cause trouble. In Ireland an STT security man with no power of arrest awaits.

Of all the years i travelled by train, I personally only remember two times when there was alcohol related trouble on intercity trains and they both revolved around jazz weekends in Cork. A lot of that also had to do with overcrowding on MK3s at the time before IÉ had an hourly frequency.

Michael D Not Higgins

dowlingm wrote: »

I think people could get behind a system where as a matter of safety alcohol could be consumed on board but only when served by an onboard employee - as on aircraft. Even then you do see planes diverting the odd time due unruly passengers so we can't expect IE not to have the odd problem as long as they are acting to minimise it. IE would have give up some margin on the sale so that the reaction wasn't simply "IE trying to gouge more money out of us" but that would be made up for in part by additional volume sold. They might also have to consider putting on trolley service on additional trains if people complained that IE was taking away the option to bring on board without providing the option themselves.

IE don't set the prices. It's outsourced to Rail Gourmet.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

I find it hard to believe some of the attitudes on this thread. I can't name a country in Europe where it's not acceptable to enjoy a beer on an intercity train. Yes cultures are different on the continent. Britain however shares the same rowdy culture towards alcohol as we do, difference over there is that the British Transport Police will be waiting for you at the next station if you cause trouble. In Ireland an STT security man with no power of arrest awaits.

Of all the years i travelled by train, I personally only remember two times when there was alcohol related trouble on intercity trains and they both revolved around jazz weekends in Cork. A lot of that also had to do with overcrowding on MK3s at the time before IÉ had an hourly frequency.

Ireland can't afford the police we have never mind a dedicated transport police/corps. There is noisy/unsettling/boisterous/rowdy behaviour every weekend on the Waterford trains because the security on board is useless and people spike bottles of coke with vodka and drink from paper cups topping up with the cans hidden in their bags!

Judgement Day

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

IE don't set the prices. It's outsourced to Rail Gourmet.

Yes, outsourcing - just like the way closing down the railways has been outsourced to the NTA. Removes responsibility from those who should be exercising it.

Michael D Not Higgins

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, outsourcing - just like the way closing down the railways has been outsourced to the NTA. Removes responsibility from those who should be exercising it.

I think it was more due to the fact that they were losing money on it. It's also why the prices increased after rail gourmet took over

end of the road

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

If someone can't last a 2/3 hour train journey without needing a drink then they have a problem.

somehow i knew someone was going to make that statement, its the usual one religious extremists use to support the backward law in relation to pubs on good friday, you would sware anyone who drinks on a train or good friday is some raving alcoholic, some might be but as we can see the nanny state solution which we currently have is a failure

Fred Swanson

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Judgement Day

Why not people who wear loud trousers?

end of the road

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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it shouldn't have been, used to love the smoking carrige, great craic down there as a young fella (all though i didn't smoke myself) unless you live out in the country your breathing in smoke from the minute you step outside your house

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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in ireland its a vital component to pass the time on public transport on a long journey as it can take so bluddy long

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

Ireland can't afford the police we have never mind a dedicated transport police/corps. There is noisy/unsettling/boisterous/rowdy behaviour every weekend on the Waterford trains because the security on board is useless and people spike bottles of coke with vodka and drink from paper cups topping up with the cans hidden in their bags!

We can't afford a transport police yet we can afford to hire a next to useless outsourced security firm. Makes sense!

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

We can't afford a transport police yet we can afford to hire a next to useless outsourced security firm. Makes sense!

A couple of cheap security guards is nothing compared to the cost of emloying and equipping a dedicated transport police!

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

A couple of cheap security guards is nothing compared to the cost of emloying and equipping a dedicated transport police!

The transport police in the UK are fully paid for by British Rail, airports, airlines etc.

Rather then paying for stupid STT security, plus separate ticket inspectors, plus separate inspectors, instead have the Airport Police turned into a transport police service with increased powers and also paid for by Irish Rail, BE, DB, private companies, etc.

These transport police officers could not only, carry out security duties, but also ticket checking, etc.

Even if it meant fewer transport police then the combined numbers of STT, ticket checkers, etc. they would be a lot more effective and thus worth it.

Also take into account that you wouldn't need the Gardai, patrolling Connolly, Heuston, etc. any more. It is crazy that I often see Gardai, STT and ticket checkers all doing almost the same redundant job in these stations!

Note it typically doesn't cost quite as much to train a transport police officer as a regular officer, for while they have the same powers of arrest, they typically aren't trained to the same high standards as regular police officers, with training in investigative duties, firearms, etc.

Hilly Bill

STT security are no longer working for Irish Rail.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

The transport police in the UK are fully paid for by British Rail, airports, airlines etc.

Rather then paying for stupid STT security, plus separate ticket inspectors, plus separate inspectors, instead have the Airport Police turned into a transport police service with increased powers and also paid for by Irish Rail, BE, DB, private companies, etc.

These transport police officers could not only, carry out security duties, but also ticket checking, etc.

Even if it meant fewer transport police then the combined numbers of STT, ticket checkers, etc. they would be a lot more effective and thus worth it.

Also take into account that you wouldn't need the Gardai, patrolling Connolly, Heuston, etc. any more. It is crazy that I often see Gardai, STT and ticket checkers all doing almost the same redundant job in these stations!

Note it typically doesn't cost quite as much to train a transport police officer as a regular officer, for while they have the same powers of arrest, they typically aren't trained to the same high standards as regular police officers, with training in investigative duties, firearms, etc.

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

STT security are no longer working for Irish Rail.

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

At least the Juice bar staff was safe

Jamie2k9

Rather then paying for stupid STT security

no point in calling them stupid, its not their fault that they have no powers.

They were getting very familiar with the staff working in the juice bar in Heuston, and also very handy at hanging around out at the luas stop chatting to young women, so much so that they were basically useless as security.

Foggy you'd only love if they started chatting you up

flazio

I seem to recall that trains are one of the places allowed to sell alcohol on Good Friday, is this correct?

Fred Swanson

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markpb

For a little context around paying for a transport police,

The Board approved a contract not to exceed $83.85 million with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to provide law enforcement services for Metro between July 1, 2013, and June 30, 2014.

link

Obviously LA county is twice the size of Ireland but it's not an insignificant amount of money.

_Kaiser_

end of the road wrote: »

somehow i knew someone was going to make that statement, its the usual one religious extremists use to support the backward law in relation to pubs on good friday, you would sware anyone who drinks on a train or good friday is some raving alcoholic, some might be but as we can see the nanny state solution which we currently have is a failure

Oh dear, you are wayyy off. Atheist for the record! AND I enjoy a social drink myself!

But since you brought up Good Friday it's another good example of my point - this Irish "need" to have a drink that is almost comparable to the American "right to bear arms" that gets them so worked up too. For what it's worth I think anyone should be able to have a drink on "Good" Friday if they choose, but that's very different to being on a train with kids and others around.

But hey, end of the day it's not going to affect me .. paying overpriced fares to sit there listening to a hen/stag party/bunch of kids getting pissed on cans and disrupting everyone else is not my idea of a relaxing journey.. I'll stick to the car and be in the pub before ye get off if I fancied it

hfallada

markpb wrote: »

For a little context around paying for a transport police,



link

Obviously LA county is twice the size of Ireland but it's not an insignificant amount of money.

LA is the gang capital of the world with a huge amount of crime and drug trafficking. Half of new build homes in California are in gated communities. Plus if you are wearing a suit and white and using public transport in LA the people assume your a drink drive with no license.

I have seen the u Bahn in the poorest city in western Germany (duisburg, it's the Detroit of Germany). They were no barriers in the station as they assume you would pay for a ticket. Countries are different and difficult to compare

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

IE, DB and BE can scarcely afford to run their own services nermind paying for a transport police! This is Ireland with about 4 million people and no real need for a transport police force.

Transport police in the UK do not check tickets they are a police service not ticket inspectors.

Doesn't mean it has to be the same here. Revenue protection could fall under the remit of an Irish transport police if the powers that be added it to the list of their duties.