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Child Care In Ireland

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Comments

  • #152
    EdCastle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭EdCastle


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »

    However I do think the extent is being exaggerated. People are behaving as if all creches are like this when I don't think they are.

    75% of creches have breached child care regulations according to the report.


  • #153
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Birroc wrote: »
    Actually Hitler was well known for making direct and lengthy eye contact with people he met. People found it disconcerting but they never forgot.

    like i said shes worse than hitler

    hitler probably would have run a good creche, very good at telling stories and organising group activities he was


  • #154
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    EdCastle wrote: »
    75% of creches have breached child care regulations according to the report.
    Very bad of course, but does that mean 75% of creches have staff being abusive to children though?


  • #155
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Bambi wrote: »
    like i said shes worse than hitler

    hitler probably would have run a good creche, very good at telling stories and organising group activities he was

    Hitler had a very uncaring and abusive childhood which helped make him the psychopath he was. He had zero empathy.


  • #156
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I missed it, any idea when it'll next be on? Its apprantly not being shown on their player!


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  • #157
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    I didn't say its grand at all, I am saying that based on my experience I don't think it widespread as is being made out. That does not mean I don't give a damn, more hysterics. Just put words into my mouth there for me and tell me what I think because I don't take pride in something that is actually nothing to do with me.

    So it's not grand but WE ARE getting a knickers in a twist over nothing? Sorry if I have put words in your mouth, but don't accuse me of being stupid or hysteric in the debate here.

    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    However I do think the extent is being exaggerated. People are behaving as if all creches are like this when I don't think they are.

    Half of all creches are in breach of child to minder ratios. That is hugely concerning.


  • #158
    EdCastle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭EdCastle


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Very bad of course, but does that mean 75% of creches have staff being abusive to children though?

    This will probably be revealed once the media looks at the reports in more detail and delivers it to the public. People will want to know.


  • #159
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Very bad of course, but does that mean 75% of creches have staff being abusive to children though?

    No they dont actually have the percentage for the creches that have abusive staff. I suppose they found it difficult to collect that data. Wake up.


  • #160
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Birroc wrote: »
    Hitler had a very uncaring and abusive childhood which helped make him the psychopath he was. He had zero empathy.


    Now that I think of it, he was a bit of a bollix all right. Good point.


  • #161
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    keith16 wrote: »
    I'm actually quiet concerned. Are you proud of the fact that Ireland is ranked way down the list when it comes down to early childhood services?

    ireland usually comes way down the list in the giving a **** about other people statistics. mental health, care of elderly, public health." Im alright jack...go private or go **** yourself " is our motto


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  • #162
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Very bad of course, but does that mean 75% of creches have staff being abusive to children though?

    Well what's the point in having regulations at all then?

    One of the speakers also tried to make light of this stat by saying not all of the breaches could be said to be "serious".

    If you start letting the little stuff go, it's not such a big leap to lose sight of the more important stuff.

    What about the fact, that 50% don't vet employees. If there was a serious incident in the morning, we'd all be in uproar. "Why weren't they vetted?", we would be asking.

    But hey, so long as were not murdering or assaulting the kids right now, does it really matter that we don't check for allergies, fabricate diaries, fraudulently take state money, pay our staff **** wages etc. etc. etc.

    Regulations are there for a reason. You are either compliant or not. Simple as.


  • #163
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Birroc wrote: »
    Hitler had a very uncaring and abusive childhood which helped make him the psychopath he was. He had zero empathy.

    Hitler only had 1 nut and a teeny-weeny penis.


  • #164
    hognef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭hognef


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    I'm sure that there's only a minority of creches with care as poor as seen tonight.

    There's a clear lack of regulation and follow-up to poor audits here. The free pre-school year sounds great, and I agree that it's healthy for toddlers to hang out with other toddlers. I'm sure pay is an issue too, the Scandinavians have it sussed and it doesn't come cheap either, but it is a good investment in our kids.

    Social workers have been called in to talk to parents for less than the things shown tonight.

    Don't know about other Scandinavian countries, but in Norway the max cost is only around €300 per month (due to state subsidies, of course), lower again for those on lower incomes, and with significant discounts for second and subsequent children. Staffing level requirements seem similar to here. From what I could find, generally a third will have Bachelor degrees in preschool teaching (with a starting salary of nearly €50k).

    Says something about the difference in importance put on childcare in the two countries.


  • #165
    NickD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭NickD


    [/QUOTE]Half of all creches are in breach of child to minder ratios. That is hugely concerning.[/QUOTE]

    The regulation that they are talking about is Regulation 8. This deals with staff information such as references from previous employers that have been checked, garda vetting and staff ratios. There are a number of factors that could cause a service to be in breach of this regulation such as having an employee who has lived out of Ireland and has to apply for a police clearance for every country they have lived in (which takes a very long time, that regulation was only introduced in September so it will take a while to get everyone up to date on that considering that a lot of the employees come from very poor countries where a police check simply doesn't exist), or waiting for Irish Garda Vetting which can take up to 4 months.

    And sometimes, simply, the ratios are out, because the owners/ managers are (mostly, not all) about profit. This means they hire as few staff as possible, for as little as possible.

    The only guideline I can give you is look to the staff in your creche. If they look stressed out, the atmosphere feels off or there is a high turnover of staff, it's time to move your kids.


  • #166
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    space_man wrote: »
    Hitler only had 1 nut and a teeny-weeny penis.

    Hitler had only one big ball,
    Goering had two but they very small,
    Himmler had something simmler,
    But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all


  • #167
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I've recently come to the conclusion that in any given sector if you leave people in charge of children with no oversight, sooner or later someone will do something nasty. I don't profess to know the reasons for this, but it seems to me that institutional abuse of people who can't defend themselves, be they kids, the disabled, dementia, whatever - is absolutely rife.

    I was thinking though. Supposing you mandated that all such places had to be fully CCTV monitored, and that any parent / caregiver responsible for one of their clients could demand a copy of that CCTV at any time, with tampering or erasing of it a criminal offense?

    My school hallways installed CCTV at one stage and incidents of theft and/or general douchebaggery on the school grounds plummeted. You could go into the monitor room and ask them to rewind to a certain time to see who took something out of your locker or whatever, and once everyone got used to the cameras that kind of sh!te literally never happened.

    Just a thought?


  • #168
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I've recently come to the conclusion that in any given sector if you leave people in charge of children with no oversight, sooner or later someone will do something nasty. I don't profess to know the reasons for this, but it seems to me that institutional abuse of people who can't defend themselves, be they kids, the disabled, dementia, whatever - is absolutely rife.

    I was thinking though. Supposing you mandated that all such places had to be fully CCTV monitored, and that any parent / caregiver responsible for one of their clients could demand a copy of that CCTV at any time, with tampering or erasing of it a criminal offense?

    My school hallways installed CCTV at one stage and incidents of theft and/or general douchebaggery on the school grounds plummeted. You could go into the monitor room and ask them to rewind to a certain time to see who took something out of your locker or whatever, and once everyone got used to the cameras that kind of sh!te literally never happened.

    Just a thought?
    My boss at work has cameras set up everywhere that he can check up on with his phone any time he likes. This kind of thing would be really handy - put yr child in creche, get password, check up on child during the day with yr mobile whenever you feel like. Simples.


  • #169
    NickD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭NickD


    whatdoicare wrote: »
    My boss at work has cameras set up everywhere that he can check up on with his phone any time he likes. This kind of thing would be really handy - put yr child in creche, get password, check up on child during the day with yr mobile whenever you feel like. Simples.

    Simple but expensive, the bottom dollar is what motivates most creche owners. They will refuse to install this by using 'Child Protection' as an excuse. The real reason is the expense and they genuinely do not want you to see the circumstances the girls work in.

    I have risen this a number of times with different employers and all are staunchly against it.


  • #170
    numnumcake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭numnumcake


    I'm sure that there are many women in this country tonight reconsidering whether their career is more important than their child's safety and well- being. However from my own experience a friend of mine had no choice to go back to work and put her very small child in a creche as her husbands wage was not enough to pay the mortgage or the bills. She wasn't happy about it but had no choice. Then you have the other extreme where some women just want more money for designer clothes and holidays. Women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they go back to work they are accused of being a selfish mother and if they stay at home to look after their children they're labelled as lazy.


  • #171
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    numnumcake wrote: »
    I'm sure that there are many women in this country tonight reconsidering whether their career is more important than their child's safety and well- being. However from my own experience a friend of mine had no choice to go back to work and put her very small child in a creche as her husbands wage was not enough to pay the mortgage or the bills. She wasn't happy about it but had no choice. Then you have the other extreme where some women just want more money for designer clothes and holidays. Women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they go back to work they are accused of being a selfish mother and if they stay at home to look after their children they're labelled as lazy.

    When did the time warp to the 1950's happen?

    I don't know which of your statements is the most offensive.


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  • #172
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    NickD wrote: »
    Simple but expensive, the bottom dollar is what motivates most creche owners. They will refuse to install this by using 'Child Protection' as an excuse. The real reason is the expense and they genuinely do not want you to see the circumstances the girls work in.

    I have risen this a number of times with different employers and all are staunchly against it.
    Well, if parents start basing their choice of creche on if they have this type of access or not they won't be long changing their tune and getting g them installed.Demand and all that.


  • #173
    numnumcake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69 ✭✭numnumcake


    seb65 wrote: »
    When did the time warp to the 1950's happen?

    I don't know which of your statements is the most offensive.

    I'm just commenting on my own experiences that they are the attitudes that a lot of women I know face when deciding whether to stay at home and look after their child or put them in a creche.


  • #174
    flutterflye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    seb65 wrote: »
    When did the time warp to the 1950's happen?

    I don't know which of your statements is the most offensive.

    ??

    What is 1950's about that post? All of what she said is completely apt.


  • #175
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Never got too see the program (if anyone could link me).

    Just like to add this, people seem to be showing serious hatred towards the company and there workers. While the company is at serious fault here beyond belief, I would not be so quick to blame every worker in the company. There are bad people that are rotten to the core in every company/organization, so no point tarring them all with the one brush.

    I know 2 girls in childcare and they would not lay a finger on a child, but on many occasions there seems to be pressure on the girls looking after way to many children due to the company skimping on staff. All be it no excuse for a worker to abuse a child in any circumstances.

    Extremely surprised the Minister was not on the program given the gravity of this situation but then again no surprise there when we have the Minister for Justice flaunting the law. I do blame the government on this one, the regulations and law is there yet it is not been enforced as per usual, until some sort of scandal comes out that is a game changer for them, do we need to have game changers or can Enda not get his house in order and actually enforce some law and make changes in other areas other than finance ?


  • #176
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Birroc wrote: »
    Hitler had only one big ball,
    Goering had two but they very small,
    Himmler had something simmler,
    But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all

    Thanks for that :mad::mad::mad:

    You do know half of us are going to be singing that for the rest of the night?

    :-)


  • #177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whilst not all employees man-handled the children, the ones that were working did stand by and let it happen.

    Their evaluation of the situation concerns me.


  • #178
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Whilst not all employees man-handled the children, the ones that were working did stand by and let it happen.

    Their evaluation of the situation concerns me.

    There just as much to answer. How they could stand idly by while this went on!


  • #179
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 13,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »
    It's funny that with the normalisation of two income families and creches the extra income just got factored into the maximum house price that could be set in a demand>supply property market. So any theoretical benefit of two incomes dissapeared into a mortgage and children paid by having both parents in full time jobs and them in full time creches.


    Yep - I completely agree on this point. I watched the Prime Time documentary on creches and was horrified but not all that surprised. Is it really good for a child's development to put them into a crèche 5 days a week from 7am till 5.30pm?

    There's a lot to be said for full-time parenting.


  • #180
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    flutterflye wrote: »
    ??

    What is 1950's about that post? All of what she said is completely apt.

    Well, first of all, stating it's automatically the women who must decide whether to give up their career to stay at home.

    Second, stating a woman's choice to have a career is only because a) her husband's salary doesn't cover the bills; or b) because she wants extra income.

    Anyone think women might work because they get a sense of fulfillment out of their career? Or how about financial independence?

    Maybe after the darlings have grown and left the house, some women want something else in their lives.


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  • #181
    veXual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭veXual


    There's a trend with all the creches featured on the report as they are all owned by parent companies and have multiple creches dotted around Dublin. Some of these larger institutions are focused completely on profit and as a result the care for the child suffers.

    I haven't seen the report so I don't know if its be mentioned but were the ratio's of children to staff over the legal limit?

    I know there are steps in place that within x amount of years all people working with children need to have a relevant childcare qualification but many still don't hence a lower level of care.


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