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Is rape always rape? Are men always to blame?

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Comments

  • #572
    starling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    silentrust wrote: »
    That's right Starling, it's about rape.

    Rape is not watching pornography.

    Rape is not telling a sexist joke.

    Rape is not sleeping with someone, then regretting it the next day and claiming it was not consensual.

    Rape is not having sex with someone rich/powerful in order to garner media attention and/or financial compensation.

    Rape is not being approached by a stranger who makes unwelcome advances. (As unacceptable as this behaviour is).

    Rape is having sex with someone who does not consent who genuinely believes that you do not consent. It's a crime under law and requires the same burden of proof as any other crime.

    Nobody said any of those things were rape except the last one. Straw man much?


  • #573
    mratropolis
    Site Banned Posts: 4 ✭mratropolis


    Sometimes the woman lead the man on and has consensual sex with him, sometimes she has consensual sex and later reports it as rape, sometimes she does ask for it. There are a lot of bogus rape claims out there, a woman's accusation of rape should not be entertained unless there is 100% proof of it happening, not just her word. I'd say that 25% of "rape" cases are false, if not, more.

    If a 17 year old gentleman has sex with a 16 year old female, the feminists say "string him up, lock him up, scum". However, if a 17 year old female has sex with a 16-year-old gentleman, the gentleman is still somehow to blame.

    Mod: Banned


  • #574
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    starling wrote: »
    There's a difference between free speech and hate speech. There's a difference between censorship and the refusal to accept racism. It's about time everyone knew that.

    No one said you had to accept it. Nobody is obliged to accept anything they read or hear. You also don't have the right to tell anyone they can't say it, just because you don't accept it.


  • #575
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    starling wrote: »
    Nobody said any of those things were rape except the last one. Straw man much?

    In fairness the blog referenced earlier did, but I'm presuming that 99% of women don't actually believe in this particular extremist piece of ridiculousnesS:
    http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/

    To be fair that one has come up before and both men AND women have agreed that the author seems to be a bit of a psycho :D It's definitely not representative, so bringing it up here is irrelevant.


  • #576
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Why do these threads always revolve around the microscopic viewpoint of mens attitudes and 'how not to appear rapey' etc., while ignoring the wider societal problems that actually lead to rapists in the first place?

    It's not just a problem with men, it's a much more complicated set of problems with society overall, that leads to rapists.

    If you get stuck talking about issues such as victim blaming, stuff that happens after a rape, and being sensitive to womens fear of rape, then you are only debating how to deal with the societal problems rape causes, not the societal problems causing rape to happen in the first place.


    The above are legitimate issues obviously, it's just a very narrow focus which misses the one most important part of the whole topic: What causes rapists, why do people rape, and what needs to change to stop the occurrence of rapists in the first place?

    You have to actually look at rapists themselves, and what motivated them to commit rape (and it's not the "it's all about power" nonsense), and to see what can change in society to make such motivations less prevalent.


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  • #577
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    wonderfulname wrote: »
    I'm going to ignore the more condescending reply to this point and stick with this one, when you take into account margin of error, and also that the initial statistics compare like with like, that being prosecutions, it is perfectly reasonable to deduce that false reporting accounts for a % of reports which is pretty much insignificant, and does not merit the focus brought on it, when you move outside of the more easily compared stats, and take onboard the likes of the unverified 12,500 false reports over 10 years in a specific and not entirely related area mentioned in relation to this, it makes sense to put that into context with the overall rate of assaults and reports, even if taking it to that level requires the use of less verifiable statistics, the margin of error involved still sees them relevant, and the result is still generally in line with the earlier assertion. The stats here are shite, but it is reasonable to compare like with like, and it is a reasonable assumption that the comparison holds true IRL.

    Wow, you reviewed all the literature and came up with this. Tell me, your false reporting figure is based on prosecutions. What would be your response if someone suggested that the level of rape in society should only be based on prosecution rate? No? Why is it only OK to manipulate statistics in one direction?


    Fwiw, the most accepted study on this, by Lisak, gives a rate if around 6% if I recall correctly (any of the posters involved in the same debate on a different thread about a month ago, feel free to correct me if you haven't lost the will to live). Even this is subject to severe criticism given the very narrow definition of false claim used certainly the inference that 6% false => 94%:true is utterly unsound


  • #578
    starling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    In fairness the blog referenced earlier did, but I'm presuming that 99% of women don't actually believe in this particular extremist piece of ridiculousnesS:

    To be fair that one has come up before and both men AND women have agreed that the author seems to be a bit of a psycho :D It's definitely not representative, so bringing it up here is irrelevant.

    that is exactly the point i was making some fool posted that link for no legitimate reason at all, I said nobody on this thread was claiming that people who watch porn are rape supporters


  • #579
    starling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    No one said you had to accept it. Nobody is obliged to accept anything they read or hear. You also don't have the right to tell anyone they can't say it, just because you don't accept it.
    I'm not telling anyone what they can and can't say. I'm saying that society generally deems racist jokes to be evidence of racism and that "free speech blah blah my right to be a racist" is not an excuse.


  • #580
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    starling wrote: »
    that is exactly the point i was making some fool posted that link for no legitimate reason at all, I said nobody on this thread was claiming that people who watch porn are rape supporters

    Exactly. Good to see we can put down our respective megaphones momentarily to unite against eejits :D If only this happened more often in real life, eh? ;)


  • #581
    starling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Exactly. Good to see we can put down our respective megaphones momentarily to unite against eejits :D If only this happened more often in real life, eh? ;)
    We live in hope :)


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  • #582
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    B0jangles wrote: »
    And I know you are gay, I've noticed over the years that gay men are among the quickest to dismiss the experiences of women.
    Oh you have have you?

    Be sure to relate your experiences of blacks, romas and jews some time. Sounds fascinating.


  • #583
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    starling wrote: »
    I'm not telling anyone what they can and can't say. I'm saying that society generally deems racist jokes to be evidence of racism and that "free speech blah blah my right to be a racist" is not an excuse.

    Well I certainly don't deem it as such and neither does anyone I know to be honest. I have a t-shirt at home which my dad brought me from America: "So this Irish guy walks out of a bar... No honestly, it can happen!" I find that hilarious myself. There was some silliness last year about some allegedly anti Irish remarks made by Bloomberg, didn't think anything of those either. I have a wealth of Paddy Irishman jokes up my own sleeve and love hearing new ones. None of these things has ever made me look at someone and think "My God, that racist, anti-Irish monster!" Because, y'know, I'm capable of not always taking everything seriously? :rolleyes:


  • #584
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Amazingly all gay people don't act the same way, just like all men don't and all women don't. What good are sweeping statements like that?

    You are quite right, what I meant to say was that SOME gay men do this. My post as originally written comes across as pretty nasty and does not reflect my real views at all.

    Apologies to all I have unintentionally offended.


  • #585
    donfers
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    This thread has really depressed me. I can only hope that some of the people speaking here are only representative of themselves and not a wider view among people.

    To suggest that anything that isnt rape, is rape, trivialises a very serious crime and frankly, belittles and insults the victims of that crime.

    why has it depressed you?

    I assume you live in the real world, if you do then you will know these views are not representative of wider society

    threads like this tend to attract extremist nutjobs on either side

    The reason for their vitriol and bitterness is usually precisely because wider society rejects their extremist views

    online forums are one of the last platforms where they can shoot their mouths off without consequence so that's why they proliferate in places like this


  • #586
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    wonderfulname wrote: »
    This is a new one... It has to be my least favourite thing to see, where in one breath a person smears an entire subgroup of the population whilst simultaniously lamenting that treatment towards another.

    Actually, I think the gay male community has a misogyny problem, there was a thread over on the ladies lounge about this exact phenomenon a while back, here.


  • #587
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    We're done.


  • #588
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Why's that? :confused: If people dissolve into rule breaking infract or ban them, what's the harm in having a discussion regardless of whether it generates controversy? A Boards thread never killed anyone or led to a volcanic eruption...?

    OH and fwiw they dissolved into rule breaking and were banned. Condescending, goading, trolling childishness. Ergo were banned.


This discussion has been closed.
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