APART FROM RELIGIOUS BELIEFS what are the arguments against gay marriage?

darced · 27-05-2013 10:51PM

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1ZRed · 27-05-2013 10:51PM

krudler wrote: »

That you're a re-reg obsessed with anal sex? indeed it does. what is it with you and assfcuking? really now. you're like the energizer bunny of arse tampering on here

Fuk that sounds hawt, brah

Gbear · 27-05-2013 10:52PM

endacl wrote: »

Nah. You can't. They're not.

One is a relationship between consenting adults. The other is abuse. Really? You need this explained?!?

If incest is between consenting adults what's the problem?

It's still incest if they're 20 and 40.

From a "decency" point of view Woodie Allen married his adopted daughter. I'd imagine that there would've been weird Dad/Daughter issues going on there that I wouldn't much care to experience.

Obviously there's a slight difference in a biological parent/child relationship given that children could be born with genetic defects and so forth.

Where do you draw the line though?

If there's an innate tendency for animals not to want to procreate (as opposed to something that's cultural which has developed along more subtle evolutionary lines to maintain genetic diversity) then people wanting to marry inside the family simply won't be a problem often enough to cause the downfall of civilisation.

joseph brand · 27-05-2013 10:54PM

darced wrote: »

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No shame in admitting it. We're all adults here. Well done.

darced wrote: »

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If this is what you think, we can only wonder what kind of a loving, amorous family you come from.

endacl · 27-05-2013 10:56PM

darced wrote: »

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OK. Pedantic. A homosexual relationship between two consenting adults is not. An incestuous relationship between an adult and a child is. An incestuous relationship between two adults is a likely an indicator of an occurrence of abuse in the past.

Really? You're nitpicking over this?

darced · 27-05-2013 10:59PM

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-05-2013 10:59PM

Ok. Sorry.

I went drinking, need a recap,

Has there been a good secular argument presented in the last 6 pages that would make it worth reading or not?

yore · 27-05-2013 11:01PM

joseph brand wrote: »

As we all know I'm sure, christianity pushes the idea that being gay is a sin.

No it doesn't.

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm not going to pretend that there isn't a single person in this world who is both atheist and homophobic, but I've never met one. The search continues . . . .

42% of china is atheist/agnostic according to wikipedia. That's about 564 million people according to Wikipedia......it would appear you might have a good starting point if you really want to find a homophobic atheist.

Corkfeen · 27-05-2013 11:01PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ok. Sorry.

I went drinking, need a recap,

Has there been a good secular argument presented in the last 6 pages that would make it worth reading or not?

A very angry person arrived that demanded the immediate banning of homosexuality.... :pac:

endacl · 27-05-2013 11:02PM

Gbear wrote: »

If incest is between consenting adults what's the problem?

It's still incest if they're 20 and 40.

From a "decency" point of view Woodie Allen married his adopted daughter. I'd imagine that there would've been weird Dad/Daughter issues going on there that I wouldn't much care to experience.

Obviously there's a slight difference in a biological parent/child relationship given that children could be born with genetic defects and so forth.

Where do you draw the line though?

If there's an innate tendency for animals not to want to procreate (as opposed to something that's cultural which has developed along more subtle evolutionary lines to maintain genetic diversity) then people wanting to marry inside the family simply won't be a problem often enough to cause the downfall of civilisation.

All good points Gbear. I can't see it solely from the point of view of genetics though. We do indeed have this innate tendency, or genetic taboo, if you like. It takes a substantial psychological/emotional trauma to overcome it, and regardless of the ages of people involved, incest never comes from a healthy place.

darced · 27-05-2013 11:02PM

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Gbear · 27-05-2013 11:02PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ok. Sorry.

I went drinking, need a recap,

Has there been a good secular argument presented in the last 6 pages that would make it worth reading or not?

Not even vaguely.

PopePalpatine · 27-05-2013 11:02PM

yore wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Of course, Christianity is so merciful in that it gives them evil quaaaaaaares a choice of sinning or remaining celibate. :rolleyes:

endacl · 27-05-2013 11:03PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ok. Sorry.

I went drinking, need a recap,

Has there been a good secular argument presented in the last 6 pages that would make it worth reading or not?

Mostly shouty. Some funny.

endacl · 27-05-2013 11:04PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

A very angry person arrived that demanded the immediate banning of homosexuality.... :pac:

He may have been playing a role. Had the part down pat though!

StinkyMunkey · 27-05-2013 11:05PM

darced wrote: »

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endacl wrote: »

OK. Pedantic. A homosexual relationship between two consenting adults is not. An incestuous relationship between an adult and a child is. An incestuous relationship between two adults is a likely an indicator of an occurrence of abuse in the past.

Really? You're nitpicking over this?

Nature provides a natural defence against incest in species, regardless of the species. It's not in the best interest of that species to reproduce with a family member.

If incest is the same as homosexual sex, surely then rape is the same as homosexual sex. Or is rape natural? I fail to see the relationship between 2 gays wanting to marry and incest. I suppose if I use enough smoke and mirrors I can find a connection......

yore · 27-05-2013 11:05PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Of course, Christianity is so merciful in that it gives them evil quaaaaaaares a choice of sinning or remaining celibate. :rolleyes:

Glad you agree with me

You're very good. I feel loved.

Red Silurian · 27-05-2013 11:06PM

Here's a good argument against gay marriage that doesn't involve religion.... Single people (regardless of sexual orientation) have more fun!

Gbear · 27-05-2013 11:07PM

endacl wrote: »

All good points Gbear. I can't see it solely from the point of view of genetics though. We do indeed have this innate tendency, or genetic taboo, if you like. It takes a substantial psychological/emotional trauma to overcome it, and regardless of the ages of people involved, incest never comes from a healthy place.

Is that an argument against it?
Plenty of relationships come from unhealthy places.

Here's a thought experiment - how about a couple who find out that they were in fact separated at birth and are twins?
I can see how it would ruin the relationship but I don't see how the law should descriminate against them.

Again, the basic fundamental issue is (and I'm going to try to wheel this thread back into the realm of sanity) should anyone have the right to determine what sort of relationship any combination of any number of consenting adults have, other than those that are in that relationship?

I don't think they should and I've yet to see any compelling argument why anyone else should be permitted to interfere.

joseph brand · 27-05-2013 11:12PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

... as is incompatibility with homophobia, you appear to be suggesting.

Except, judging by history, the facts don't bear this out.

You'd be hard pressed to find any atheist society in history of humankind which was not homophobic.

How far back are you going?

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The fact is that modern atheism, alongside a tendency to display less homophobia,

A lot less. The percentage is minuscule. Also, what is a modern atheist?

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

is probably more a consequence of goof-filled TV shows expounding a liberal lifestyle than any deeper level of intellectualism.

Whatever happened to 'The Waltons', 'Sons and Daughters' and 'The Sullivans'? Wholesome shows with plain characters and monotonous storylines.

endacl · 27-05-2013 11:13PM

Gbear wrote: »

Is that an argument against it?
Plenty of relationships come from unhealthy places.

Here's a thought experiment - how about a couple who find out that they were in fact separated at birth and are twins?
I can see how it would ruin the relationship but I don't see how the law should descriminate against them.

Again, the basic fundamental issue is (and I'm going to try to wheel this thread back into the realm of sanity) should anyone have the right to determine what sort of relationship any combination of any number of consenting adults have, other than those that are in that relationship?

I don't think they should and I've yet to see any compelling argument why anyone else should be permitted to interfere.

There was a recent example in Germany of a brother and sister adopted by two different families. Far more complicated, and led to great emotional difficulty if I recall. I'll see if I can rustle out the linkidink...

I suppose I'm referring to incest in the full possession of the facts, that your 'average Joe' might understand it to be. Something more like http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/incest-case-children-failed-by-the-system-448865.html I suspect that is the context that was originally suggested, in order to draw a ludicrous link between the two (h.sexuality/incest) in order to point score, rather than discuss?

Edit: Linkidink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_St%C3%BCbing

Consenting adults by German standards, although only barely for the sister. Horrible history, and led to nowhere good.

darced · 27-05-2013 11:14PM

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darced · 27-05-2013 11:20PM

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endacl · 27-05-2013 11:20PM

darced wrote: »

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Hypothetically, no. Doesn't happen though.

joseph brand · 27-05-2013 11:21PM

darced wrote: »

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Not sure if it's your intention, but you're coming across as someone who's very interested in incest. You may want to clear your browser history regularly.

As regards your question; as far as I know, gay couples aren't brother and brother, nor sister and sister, looking to get married. So you may as well save all your incest material for a thread on straight marriage (brother and sister).

Vicxas · 27-05-2013 11:22PM

Is it because they'll corner the wedding planner market?

joseph brand · 27-05-2013 11:24PM

darced wrote: »

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Plenty of straight couples can't have children. So they adopt, like gay couples. This is simple stuff.

darced wrote: »

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It ruins xmas.

darced · 27-05-2013 11:26PM

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endacl · 27-05-2013 11:29PM

darced wrote: »

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Of your recent posts? Ah g'wan, they weren't that bad.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

:rolleyes:

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 27-05-2013 11:29PM

Didnt bother reading entire thread but are people seriously comparing gay people with incest relationships?!
Meh let them get married, live and let live at the end of the day, what someone decides to do with their own life has nothing got to do with anybody else. Besides gay people should have the right to be as miserable at straight people

APART FROM RELIGIOUS BELIEFS what are the arguments against gay marriage?

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