Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Why is beheading someone worse than dropping a bomb on someone?

24

Comments

  • #32
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    bus_driver wrote: »
    that psychology essay could explain the actions of countless acts of murder but what happened the other day was political in nature , that's the key difference , you want to ignore the political nature of the act , most murderers and especially deranged killers are not politically motivated
    You're ignoring my point. It takes a particular personality type to commit acts of extreme violence. I'm not contradicting what you said. I'm just observing that it takes more than the 'switch' of political outrage to butcher a young man in broad daylight.

    Politics was the outlet, not the reason, and its comforting for people to have a relatively simple way to explain the event, even if they can't understand it.

    You tore through that Fonagy paper fairly sharpish, by the way. Kudos on your speed reading skills!


  • #33
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    It reads like a Fox News report and isn't worth it.
    It clearly doesnt. It was written by the foremost thinker in the modern field, in one of the most highly respected universities in Europe.

    Didn't read it, did you?

    :D


  • #34
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    endacl wrote: »
    It clearly doesnt. It was written by the foremost thinker in the modern field, in one of the most highly respected universities in Europe.

    I'm talking about your 'Cowboys and Indians' interpretation of events.
    Didn't read it, did you?

    The article you posted? No.

    I'll wait to see if someone with actual credibility and impartiality diagnoses the killers as 'mentally ill' and then consider it - I won't hold my breath though.

    If a professional consensus on whether Anders Brevik is mentally ill or not cannot be reached I'm pretty confident that there won't be one for these two.


  • #35
    samboNo9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭samboNo9


    Augmerson wrote: »

    People get beheaded all the time in Iraq. But that is happening OVER THERE. When mad stuff happens OVER HERE (or nearby) then people start going "ah lads wtf?" and worry.

    Well, thank you for that. Nowwww I get it..?

    13383


  • #36
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I can see where the op is coming from.
    We all know local news is going to get picked more than somewhere else... but it's the media's mentality too. Take the uk media. They'll crap on about things that happen in america. But if something more tragic was to happen in the middle east - "that's different and unimportant"


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    lightspeed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    Im sick of this nonsense. The people getting bombed and killed are mostly brutal islamist terrorists who despise democracy and demand that people live under devout islamic law. The innocent muslim civilians killed are mostly killed from bombs and attacks from the islamist terrorists themselves and the rest are caught in the crossfire of this Jihad that these animals continue to pursue.

    Did you see when the islamists took over Mali a few months ago and the videos of them cutting peoples arms off who they felt had not been abiding by islamic law?

    These people have vowed to continue to bomb and slaughter anybody who opposes adopting islamic law and will accept nothing else in the middle east and will also continue to unleash war upon israel and any other western allies.

    So as these islamist groups continue to spread like a disease and bomb places like pakistan as they try and establish democracy, and occupy Afghanistan and elsewhere should the western world standby and watch?

    So they could get massacred like people during the Bosnian war?

    This idea that such a brutal murder can be rationalised because Britain has opposed such rule in the middle east is ridiculous.


  • #38
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal" - possibly the most trampled upon value of the American Dream. The modern translation should be "We hold these truths to be self evident: that the life of someone on our 'team' is far more important than a thousand lives of those who aren't."

    :mad:


  • #39
    Marsden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Marsden


    lightspeed wrote: »
    Im sick of this nonsense. The people getting bombed and killed are mostly brutal islamist terrorists who despise democracy and demand that people live under devout islamic law.
    On what evidence is this statement based ? I can only assume your being sarcastic.

    http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/microsites/human-rights-institute/COLUMBIACountingDronesFinalNotEmbargo.pdf


  • #40
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bus_driver wrote: »
    the attackers were idealogically and politically motivated , al qaeeda members don't carry membership cards , its a mindset , a universal ideal

    it was a terrorist attack

    But these guys weren't Al-Qaeda members. To be so they would have to have contact with some others or have a membership card ;)
    Seriously though, stating that they were violent muslims and there fore Al-Qaeda is a bit of a streach.

    They were just nutjobs who had an islamic agenda.

    Honestly, I think classifying it as a "terrorist" attack and convening a cobra meeting is giving it more power than it had. 9/11 was a terrorist attack. The mumbai shootings were a terrorist attack. warrington was a terrorish attack. Each was designed to strike terror into the public at large.
    This was two psychotic individuals.


  • #41
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    lightspeed wrote: »
    Im sick of this nonsense. The people getting bombed and killed are mostly brutal islamist terrorists who despise democracy and demand that people live under devout islamic law. The innocent muslim civilians killed are mostly killed from bombs and attacks from the islamist terrorists themselves and the rest are caught in the crossfire of this Jihad that these animals continue to pursue.

    Sure, because babies and toddlers are clearly terrorist masterminds.
    This is one of the most delusional posts I've seen in a long time.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    alchemist33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Look, if we all just admit that we're racist b@stards who don't care about brown people, will these threads and posts go away? Because that's what they're always implying.


  • #43
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    alchemist33 wrote: »
    Look, if we all just admit that we're racist b@stards who don't care about brown people, will these threads and posts go away? Because that's what they're always implying.

    It's not "us", it's politicians and our news media.


  • #44
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I am not entirely sure where the dividing line exists. There are multiple treaties governing nice ways of killing people vs not so nice. In war, you can stab someone with a two sided bayonet, but three sided are banned. Expanding ammunition is specifically banned in war, but a preferred type for police. You can try to blow someone up, but if you miss and there is a long, bleeding death, so be it. But you can't kill someone with the specific intent of bleeding them out.

    Basically it's an arbitrary distinction based on our morals of what is unnecessary pain and suffering. We generally feel that a sawing off of a head is on the far side of that line.


  • #45
    Marsden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Marsden


    Grayson wrote: »
    Honestly, I think classifying it as a "terrorist" attack and convening a cobra meeting is giving it more power than it had.

    Maybe they're afraid it could inspire sympathisers to become activists(for want of a better word). Or it could be the MI5 recruitment approach that made them to decide to have a COBRA meeting.


  • #46
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Simple answer: near, far away.


  • #47
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    It depends on who is being beheaded and who is dropping the bomb.

    Of course that isn't how it should be.


  • #48
    alchemist33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It's not "us", it's politicians and our news media.

    It's "us" on boards.ie who can't seem to discuss a single topic without comparing it to another and searching for bias.


  • #49
    Antar Bolaeisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭Antar Bolaeisk


    Grayson wrote: »
    To be honest, I wonder why this is called a terrorist attack. Am I the only one who thinks that it should be treated as a criminal act? Throw the book at them by all means. But calling it a terrorist act seems to imply is part of a grander plan.

    By labelling it a terror act are they able to revoke certain rights and privileges of the prisoners or is that just in America? Anyway, the act itself is very much an act of terror, had it just been a regular shooting it would be a stretch to call it an act of terrorism but the beheading someone in front of a crowd in broad daylight could only have been done to invoke terror.


  • #50
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    The difference is whether someone targeted civilians or military targets.

    Is what your saying that the beheading was ok because he was a military target ?


  • #51
    _Myg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭_Myg


    They are both as bad.

    To lay it out piece by piece would to expose the hypocracy, joint/communal responsibility of our society in such acts and inability to face the truth of murder by using layers of adapted logic/emotion to hide behind: While simultaneously exposing Islam's issues with their "us and them" foundations of belief, lack of central control and lack of "excommunication" functions/needs and identity as a whole.

    The first will make you enemies of the higher ups in this social order and the latter will probably get you hunted down outside your house with a knife by a collective of people who will live longer then you and never forget your name or face (when they find it).

    These are the things those of us who do know better are unwilling to say; meanwhile, everyone else just seems to confer airs and rhertoric between themselves in order to seek comfort and stability in the box that they have built to hide in (wether it be social structure or some other conflict or something that is just all in their heads).

    If you are completely oblivious on this manner; It might be best if you just accepted the simplicity that is, murder is murder, and that there are no excuses, reasons or justifications of any kind: It will do better on your soul. :-)


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    In fairness, it's hard to accidentally behead someone


  • #53
    darced
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


  • #54
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »
    By labelling it a terror act are they able to revoke certain rights and privileges of the prisoners or is that just in America? Anyway, the act itself is very much an act of terror, had it just been a regular shooting it would be a stretch to call it an act of terrorism but the beheading someone in front of a crowd in broad daylight could only have been done to invoke terror.

    Just the US. In the US by declaring someone to be an enemy combatant they can be detained indefinitely without trial. In the UK, people thankfully have rights and you can only detain someone if there is evidence and they have been charged. I believe the powers that the UK had during the troubles which caused internment in the north have been revoked.

    Personally, I think those two guys were nutjobs. I think these guys have about as much mental capacity as they guy who shot up the coinema in Colorado. There have been people in the past who committed random acts of violence with were blood curdling, it's just that these guys ranted about Allah.

    But to be fair, we don't know all the facts yet. So although we can both make assumptions based on what we know so far, we could both be wrong.


  • #55
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    It's not worse, or better. If a drone released a missile over a major western City and it struck its target, killing the target and causing damage, there would be 24/7 coverage on every channel.

    It's a question of location. If you hear your neighbour down the street got burglarised, you'd tut and sympathise(a bit). If you get burgaled, it's your front page news for the next month - all your family and friends will be bored hearing about it. It's human nature. What happens nearby impacts more. Just the way it is.


  • #56
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    lightspeed wrote: »
    Im sick of this nonsense. The people getting bombed and killed are mostly brutal islamist terrorists who despise democracy and demand that people live under devout islamic law. The innocent muslim civilians killed are mostly killed from bombs and attacks from the islamist terrorists themselves and the rest are caught in the crossfire of this Jihad that these animals continue to pursue.

    Did you see when the islamists took over Mali a few months ago and the videos of them cutting peoples arms off who they felt had not been abiding by islamic law?

    These people have vowed to continue to bomb and slaughter anybody who opposes adopting islamic law and will accept nothing else in the middle east and will also continue to unleash war upon israel and any other western allies.

    So as these islamist groups continue to spread like a disease and bomb places like pakistan as they try and establish democracy, and occupy Afghanistan and elsewhere should the western world standby and watch?

    So they could get massacred like people during the Bosnian war?

    This idea that such a brutal murder can be rationalised because Britain has opposed such rule in the middle east is ridiculous.

    Sorry have to stop you there, I would post numerous links to discredit your claims but its been done to death on this forum.


  • #57
    losthorizon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Beheadings are worse as it takes a pretty sick individual to perform a beheading and usually leads to the person being a lot more than a murderer
    Phsycotic is one word to describe them
    Anyone can shoot someone. Stabbing is worse but to behead someone? That's just over the top

    If its over the top - well you've missed


  • #58
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    we care more about crimes close to us (we shouldn't but we do)
    we don't view military acts which kill civilians as crime (we should)
    the media goes out of its way to present crimes committed by Muslims as terrorism or mention the religion at least

    so its not that the crime is worse but that it is closer so we care more


  • #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why is beheading someone worse than dropping a bomb on someone?

    Context.

    One happens very far away, out of sight.

    The other happened on a busy High Street in broad daylight, while people just like us were going about the same kind of business we do.


  • #60
    bus_driver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 ✭bus_driver


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    we care more about crimes close to us (we shouldn't but we do)
    we don't view military acts which kill civilians as crime (we should)
    the media goes out of its way to present crimes committed by Muslims as terrorism or mention the religion at least

    so its not that the crime is worse but that it is closer so we care more


    seeing as the majority of the media is left leaning ( and have their sacred cows accordingly ) , I think if anything the media goes out of their way to remind viewers that its only a tiny minority or that religious leaders are speaking out


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    bus_driver wrote: »
    seeing as the majority of the media is left leaning ( and have their sacred cows accordingly ) , I think if anything the media goes out of their way to remind viewers that its only a tiny minority or that religious leaders are speaking out


    I've yet to see any left leaning media besides an phoblacht all the tabloids are on the right. Muslim is the only religion ever mentioned, I never seen a story saying christian man does X
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=570135076363087&set=pb.127396633970269.-2207520000.1369504935.&type=3&theater


Advertisement
Advertisement