Windmills- Corrupt payment for neighbours?

Markcheese · 21-05-2013 02:55PM

They're definitely tall , but I wouldn't call them massive .... They probably will change the landscape ... But they have a life of 20 /25 years ... If they're not worth it to either farmer or company they'll be scrapped, leaving a couple of square meters of concrete.... !!
They're better looking than most of the houses built in the last 10 years ....

maidhc · 21-05-2013 04:43PM

Markcheese wrote: »

They're definitely tall , but I wouldn't call them massive .... They probably will change the landscape ... But they have a life of 20 /25 years ... If they're not worth it to either farmer or company they'll be scrapped, leaving a couple of square meters of concrete.... !!
They're better looking than most of the houses built in the last 10 years ....

Most recent planing application submitted has been for 156m high turbine. The tower in Glendalough is 30m high is while Liberty Hall 60m high.

I'd call that pretty massive, and that picture does not seem too far off scale.

The question must be posed how these turbines are good for people? They do make a noise and do interfere with people, and apart from the few farmers that get pretty rubbish rent dont benefit anyone except a few guys who live in South County Dublin or abroad.

maidhc · 21-05-2013 04:44PM

brian_t wrote: »

The existence of a website is not proof of the involvement of entire communities.

You will find most locals oppose windfarm development. Check any planning file of your choosing.

Markcheese · 21-05-2013 05:26PM

I would think liberty hall , or county hall in cork are massive ... Not as tall but lots more mass and bulk... Either of those on top of a hill near you will seriously block your view...
What exactly do you think you should get for A wind turbine being erected on a private farmers land.... It's called business , if you have a problem go through planning that's what its there from..,,
The what's in it for me attitude smacks of begrudgery....

maidhc · 21-05-2013 06:44PM

Markcheese wrote: »

The what's in it for me attitude smacks of begrudgery....

It really isnt.

The issue is having one of them perhaps 500m from your house, literally towering over you and rumbling in the middle of what was once quiet landscape.

Manoffeeling · 21-05-2013 08:04PM

reilig wrote: »

Hitler had similar techniques to keep people on his side.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Dampintheattic · 21-05-2013 09:05PM

maidhc wrote: »

You will find most locals oppose windfarm development. Check any planning file of your choosing.

Locally based, and not so locally based blow ins, are very often prime movers in each and every "anti", movement whether it be wind farms or any other type of development for that matter.

Very often, the male of the species, sports a beard, a pony tail, and a certain style of spectacles.
Don't be surprised if both sexes in this demographic group, loosely describe themselves as "artists"!
Some even turn up at "farmers market", selling horrendously priced artisan foods, and soaps and other such nonsense.
Left leaning political beliefs are pretty much normal.

Just a few observations I have made over the years in my particular neck of the woods.

maidhc · 21-05-2013 10:35PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Locally based, and not so locally based blow ins, are very often prime movers in each and every "anti", movement whether it be wind farms or any other type of development for that matter.

Very often, the male of the species, sports a beard, a pony tail, and a certain style of spectacles.
Don't be surprised if both sexes in this demographic group, loosely describe themselves as "artists"!
Some even turn up at "farmers market", selling horrendously priced artisan foods, and soaps and other such nonsense.
Left leaning political beliefs are pretty much normal.

Just a few observations I have made over the years in my particular neck of the woods.

That is a pretty obnoxious attitude to be honest. Anyone is entitled to object to a development, and it is bloody shame more objections were not considered during the celtic tiger years.

Also, this "blow in" business. No one has any greater claim to an area than anyone else. Where I live many of the "blow ins" are far better neighbours than some adjoining farmers.

reilig · 21-05-2013 10:54PM

Manoffeeling wrote: »

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

The fact that you posted that also means that Godwins Law applies to you too.

It's a ring of fire!

Godwin’s Law does not dispute the validity or otherwise of references or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis, the rule has more to do with completely losing one's sense of proportion rather than just mentioning Nazis specifically

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Apt in this exact case

Dampintheattic · 22-05-2013 07:35AM

maidhc wrote: »

That is a pretty obnoxious attitude to be honest. Anyone is entitled to object to a development, and it is bloody shame more objections were not considered during the celtic tiger years.

Also, this "blow in" business. No one has any greater claim to an area than anyone else. Where I live many of the "blow ins" are far better neighbours than some adjoining farmers.

Where I live, there are two major controversies, ongoing now for over six years.
The objections to the plans, are not local to a very large degree.
In a personal situation, I had one objector. Once again, not from what you would describe as locals.
Note: I never mentioned ALL non locals as blow ins.
I regard people who come and settle and live in the community more or less as everybody else, as locals.
I regard the serial objectors who come in as blow ins. Not here for the long haul, and not really contributing anything positive.
That's my experience. That's just the reality here.
I'm entitled to make that observation, based on the facts here. It's factual.
It's a small group by numbers, but very effective and voiciferous, when it comes to opposing developments of various kinds.

Greensleeves · 22-05-2013 05:44PM

reilig wrote: »

Most of the websites quoted have donation pages. Where is the money going? Who is in charge of it?

I'd imagine the money is being used to pay for posters, flyers, etc. The placards look more professional than they did a few months ago so the cranks either have plenty of money or someone must be donating it. I don't know who is in charge of the money but I'm sure if you contact them they will tell you.

Greensleeves · 22-05-2013 05:55PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

The rural electrification scheme, changed all our 26 I mean 32 counties for ever.
If you happened to be around, at that time, would you have objected, because all counties, would be changed forever.
Is change bad? Would you like to travel back in time, to the neolithic age

I think plenty of people might have objected to the rural electrification scheme if the electricity was being piped under the sea to the UK and not a single Watt was for the use of Irish people.

I don't think change is bad. I think a change with the potential to affect thousands of people should be considered carefully. I think that all of the people affected by the proposed change should be consulted and not just the people that stand to benefit financially from that change.

I am puzzled by the secrecy surrounding both Greenwire and Energybridge. Element Power and Mainstream refuse to attend any of the public meetings. The farmers refuse to engage with the communities. Surely transparency would benefit everybody.

Greensleeves · 22-05-2013 06:20PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Where I live, there are two major controversies, ongoing now for over six years.
The objections to the plans, are not local to a very large degree.
In a personal situation, I had one objector. Once again, not from what you would describe as locals.
Note: I never mentioned ALL non locals as blow ins.
I regard people who come and settle and live in the community more or less as everybody else, as locals.
I regard the serial objectors who come in as blow ins. Not here for the long haul, and not really contributing anything positive.
That's my experience. That's just the reality here.
I'm entitled to make that observation, based on the facts here. It's factual.
It's a small group by numbers, but very effective and voiciferous, when it comes to opposing developments of various kinds.

Most of the people that I have met who are worried about these giant wind turbines have lived all their lives in the affected area. Some of them are farmers. None of them are serial objectors. Whether they are indigenous or blow-ins they are entitled to voice concern.

freedominacup · 22-05-2013 10:00PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

I think plenty of people might have objected to the rural electrification scheme if the electricity was being piped under the sea to the UK and not a single Watt was for the use of Irish people.

The farmers refuse to engage with the communities. Surely transparency would benefit everybody.

Plenty of muppets objected to the rural elec.

Define communities.

Controversial planning in my area had equal number of submission for and against you can be damn sure the farmer refused to engage with the community. No win.

Manoffeeling · 22-05-2013 11:29PM

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Locally based, and not so locally based blow ins, are very often prime movers in each and every "anti", movement whether it be wind farms or any other type of development for that matter.

Very often, the male of the species, sports a beard, a pony tail, and a certain style of spectacles.
Don't be surprised if both sexes in this demographic group, loosely describe themselves as "artists"!
Some even turn up at "farmers market", selling horrendously priced artisan foods, and soaps and other such nonsense.
Left leaning political beliefs are pretty much normal.

Just a few observations I have made over the years in my particular neck of the woods.

http://bestdemotivationalposters.com/spot-rednecks/

Greensleeves · 24-05-2013 03:43PM

Markcheese wrote: »

If they're not worth it to either farmer or company they'll be scrapped, leaving a couple of square meters of concrete.... !! ....

I did wonder about this. Who will pay to remove them if they turn out to be "not worth it"?

Greensleeves · 24-05-2013 03:59PM

Markcheese wrote: »

I would think liberty hall , or county hall in cork are massive ... Not as tall but lots more mass and bulk... Either of those on top of a hill near you will seriously block your view...

True. But you probably wouldn't be allowed to build them in rural areas in the midlands; according to the planning guidelines they would detract from the visual amenity of the area. In some places 2 storey houses are considered too big.

Javan · 24-05-2013 04:08PM

Manoffeeling wrote: »

I met a neighbour last week who informed me that he has been approached by a company to put up a windmill. His farm bounds me, but the windmill would be erected about 1/2 to 3/4 mile from me. It would almost be on the bog with the nearest house would be about 1/2 away. We got talking and he duly informed me that I would get money also if the planning went ahead.

Basically I and the bounding neighbours get money if we don't object! I didn't see any paperwork and have not been approached by anyone, but this smells foul. He is a fairly sound neighbour who tells the truth.

I am just wondering if this is common practice by these companies to bribe would be 'objectors'?

No bull excrement or childish comments please

I remember similar happening near my place a few years ago. There were plans to place a major landfill waste disposal site off the R road that serves my home. There was talk of HGVs full of waste every 90 seconds or so at peak times, and the site itself was about a mile away.

Everyone on the road was offered a lump sum and annual payment 'for inconvenience' in an effort by the developers to reduce the number of objections in the planning process. It didn't work.

Greensleeves · 24-05-2013 04:49PM

The wind companies are very reluctant to discuss their proposed projects with the general public. One might be forgiven for thinking that they had something to hide. The Irish Wind Energy Association (IWEA) is also surprisingly shy of public meetings.

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/2013/05/23/anger-at-wind-companies-no-show-at-conference/

rancher · 24-05-2013 10:53PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

The wind companies are very reluctant to discuss their proposed projects with the general public. One might be forgiven for thinking that they had something to hide. The Irish Wind Energy Association (IWEA) is also surprisingly shy of public meetings.

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/2013/05/23/anger-at-wind-companies-no-show-at-conference/

Do you not mean protest meetings, Mainstream have 20 people going house to house for the summer meeting the locals and answering their concerns and have an office in Edenderry

Marooned75 · 25-05-2013 04:49PM

rancher wrote: »

Do you not mean protest meetings, Mainstream have 20 people going house to house for the summer meeting the locals and answering their concerns and have an office in Edenderry

Information meetings they are called yet no one from these companies attended these information meetings yet they have been invited to numerous Information meetings.i would seriously question calling door to door after the planning work is in,answering their concerns nothing more than pr work.

rancher · 25-05-2013 06:03PM

Marooned75 wrote: »

Information meetings they are called yet no one from these companies attended these information meetings yet they have been invited to numerous Information meetings.i would seriously question calling door to door after the planning work is in,answering their concerns nothing more than pr work.

No..... protest meetings, what else do you call it when the crowd start booing the county councillors, as they did in one of the meetings lately
A bit immature.......wouldn't you think

Conmaicne Mara · 25-05-2013 06:04PM

If anyone wants to offer me a corrupt payment for something, I'll say nothin :cool:

Marooned75 · 25-05-2013 06:49PM

rancher wrote: »

No..... protest meetings, what else do you call it when the crowd start booing the county councillors, as they did in one of the meetings lately
A bit immature.......wouldn't you think

Not the first or last time public representatives have been booed at any type of meeting.Anyway do we not live in a democracy?Im sure if those companies went to any of those information meeting they might know what the feedback is rather than ignore them,how else would these people know about these companies plans?When the turbines are being put up beside them.

rancher · 25-05-2013 07:10PM

Marooned75 wrote: »

Not the first or last time public representatives have been booed at any type of meeting.Anyway do we not live in a democracy?Im sure if those companies went to any of those information meeting they might know what the feedback is rather than ignore them,how else would these people know about these companies plans?When the turbines are being put up beside them.

As I said ....immature and childish behaviour.
Doesn't cost me a thought whether they get built or not, Greensleeves stated that they wouldn't meet the people and I informed him/her where they could be met

Qualitymark · 26-05-2013 08:12AM

Marooned75 wrote: »

The payment being offered to you is to stop you having any objections to it therefore the companies can say there is no objections to them.A bribe it sounds like.Also future planning applications by you or your children can be affected due to these things beside you what bank will give a loan on any property near these wind towers which will have a reduced or nearly worthless market value being near these things.

Really? Windmills reduce value of nearby houses? Do you have figures on that?

Interesting Australian study on the physical effects of wind farms here, by the way; it found that any sickness caused by the 'infrasound' was psychological:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/15/windfarm-sickness-spread-word-australia

If one of these were coming to my (urban) area (unfortunately impossible, as streets of houses cause the wind to wuther and make windmills inefficient), I'd be talking to the neighbours about pressing for a permanent subsidy for your electricity, so that you get slightly cheaper electricity because the windmills are there. That way, the company would be giving back to the community (to the extent that it can afford to do this).

Greensleeves · 26-05-2013 09:42AM

rancher wrote: »

No..... protest meetings, what else do you call it when the crowd start booing the county councillors, as they did in one of the meetings lately
A bit immature.......wouldn't you think

I think politicians are quite used to it; the farmers seem to give them plenty of grief

.

www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/local/heckled-councillor-replies-to-critics-1-1988103
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0924/122154-eulisbon/

Greensleeves · 26-05-2013 09:49AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? Windmills reduce value of nearby houses? Do you have figures on that?

You get compensated for living near wind turbines in Denmark so presumably that means the value of the house goes down.
http://cphpost.dk/news/national/wind-turbine-compensation-stirring-discontent

And in the UK you can apply for a council tax cut to reflect the reduced value of your house.
http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/news/council-tax-cut-for-houses-near-turbines-1.982197?referrerPath=news
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177429/Wind-farms-DO-hit-house-prices-Government-agency-finally-admits-thousands-wiped-value-homes.html

Qualitymark · 26-05-2013 09:50AM

Greensleeves wrote: »

You get compensated for living near wind turbines in Denmark so presumably that means the value of the house goes down.
http://cphpost.dk/news/national/wind-turbine-compensation-stirring-discontent

And in the UK you can apply for a council tax cut to reflect the reduced value of your house.
http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/news/council-tax-cut-for-houses-near-turbines-1.982197?referrerPath=news
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177429/Wind-farms-DO-hit-house-prices-Government-agency-finally-admits-thousands-wiped-value-homes.html

Wow, that's really interesting! Thank you!

And I see the Danes are getting the equivalent of €7,700 each for living near windmills, and saying it's not enough!

Linked to that Danish piece is this:

http://cphpost.dk/news/scitech/denmark’s-green-energy-future-built-offshore-wind

saying the Danes hope to provide a high proportion of their electricity through wind power, but are moving windmills offshore.

(I wonder why no one seems to be really pushing for tidal-powered turbines - it seems a good model for Ireland.)

Meanwhile, the Germans are annoying the neighbours, as usual; this time by producing too much green energy and undercutting the prices http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-20/news/sns-rt-column-wynngerman-windl5e8nj3gv-20121220_1_wind-power-renewable-power-grid-capacity

Greensleeves · 26-05-2013 10:01AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

If one of these were coming to my (urban) area (unfortunately impossible, as streets of houses cause the wind to wuther and make windmills inefficient), I'd be talking to the neighbours about pressing for a permanent subsidy for your electricity, so that you get slightly cheaper electricity because the windmills are there. That way, the company would be giving back to the community (to the extent that it can afford to do this).

This sort of scheme is being introduced by a company in the UK. It's a good idea. It is much better to make a wind farm an attractive proposition for a community than to cause the kind of upset that Mainstream and Element Power seem determined to create in the midlands.

People living near wind farms will receive at least £100 off electricity bills under a scheme announced by a renewable energy company.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10078872/Energy-bill-discount-for-wind-farm-neighbours.html

Windmills- Corrupt payment for neighbours?

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