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Interesting Stuff Thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    argh.
    'next tuesday' and 'this tuesday' are the same day.

    They are context dependant but ... Nooope.
    Tomorrow is "this Friday", the 24th, and "next Friday" is the Friday the 31st.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Definition of NEXT
    1: immediately adjacent (as in place, rank, or time)

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/next


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    robindch wrote: »
    Far as I can figure out, "next" in this context refers to any day after the immediate next day.

    So, given that today is Thursday 23, "Next Saturday" refers to Saturday 25th, "Next Sunday" to Sunday 26th, but "Next Friday" refers to Friday 31st.

    Comments welcome*

    No because then next Sunday would be part of This weekend... whereas clearly this weekend is the weekend we are going to have and next weekend is the one after...
    What are you doing this weekend clearly means this week.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if i said 'i'm getting on the next train', and one pulled into the station five minutes later, and left without me getting on it, you'd think i was a bit touched.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Definition of NEXT
    1: immediately adjacent (as in place, rank, or time)

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/next

    Yes... the one next in rank to this one...


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we should consult the bible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    kiffer wrote: »
    They are context dependant but ... Nooope.
    Tomorrow is "this Friday", the 24th, and "next Friday" is the Friday the 31st.

    Unless you are British as I learned to my cost when 'next' is the well, next one to come along but the Irish tend to say the 'next' one is the one after the, um, next one to come along which is really 'this' one.... I'm getting a headache now.

    Speaking of terms of speech - 'Inside in' (as in 'the spoon is inside in the drawer) seemingly drives people who speak flawless English (or 'Europeans' as I call them) crazy. The key to making them shut-up about it is to tell them it is a direct translation from the Irish 'isteach san' and they should stop oppressing our culcha.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    we should consult the bible.

    Which version?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's easy. If the distance between you and "last <x>day" is less than the distance between you and "next <x>day" then "next <x>day" == "this <x>day". Otherwise "next <x>day" = "this <x>day" + 7

    I can see how confusion reigns though. If today is Tuesday, and I said "next Monday", I would instantly think of the upcoming Monday. But if I said "next Wednesday", I would consider that to mean the following Wednesday rather than tomorrow. "this" == "next" and "next" == "one after next" is more consistent, but the wording is confusing.

    In reality we should be saying "this" to refer to any days (past or present) in this week. "Last" for days last week and "next" for days next week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    seamus wrote: »
    It's easy. If the distance between you and "last <x>day" is less than the distance between you and "next <x>day" then "next <x>day" == "this <x>day". Otherwise "next <x>day" = "this <x>day" + 7

    I can see how confusion reigns though. If today is Tuesday, and I said "next Monday", I would instantly think of the upcoming Monday. But if I said "next Wednesday", I would consider that to mean the following Wednesday rather than tomorrow. "this" == "next" and "next" == "one after next" is more consistent, but the wording is confusing.

    In reality we should be saying "this" to refer to any days (past or present) in this week. "Last" for days last week and "next" for days next week.

    So... I'm right and this Saturday is Towel Day and next Saturday is the 1st of June?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    kiffer wrote: »
    They are context dependant but ... Nooope.
    Tomorrow is "this Friday", the 24th, and "next Friday" is the Friday the 31st.
    No, Friday the 31st is not next Friday. Next Friday is the 24th. The 31st is Friday Week.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    kiffer wrote: »
    Yes... the one next in rank to this one...
    only when you reference 'this' one.

    i.e. you can say 'i am in france for the last week of june, and germany the next week', it's clear what you mean.

    if you don't specify a starting point, it's the one immediately adjacent to the present.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    seamus wrote: »
    It's easy. If the distance between you and "last <x>day" is less than the distance between you and "next <x>day" then "next <x>day" == "this <x>day". Otherwise "next <x>day" = "this <x>day" + 7

    I can see how confusion reigns though. If today is Tuesday, and I said "next Monday", I would instantly think of the upcoming Monday. But if I said "next Wednesday", I would consider that to mean the following Wednesday rather than tomorrow. "this" == "next" and "next" == "one after next" is more consistent, but the wording is confusing.

    In reality we should be saying "this" to refer to any days (past or present) in this week. "Last" for days last week and "next" for days next week.

    What about when people say 'The Tuesday before last'?

    Is this one of the reasons why our country is up merde cheek sans paddle - we can't work out what day we are meant to be doing stuff???

    20 years ago did the government agree to legislate for X in the next term and no one knew if they meant the next session or next time they got elected but were all agreed it wasn't this term/now???

    That headache is turning in a migraine now.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Unless you are British as I learned to my cost when 'next' is the well, next one to come along but the Irish tend to say the 'next' one is the one after the, um, next one to come along which is really 'this' one.... I'm getting a headache now.
    Yes, that can be true.

    I've decided to steer a middle line on this one -- hence "next" referring to the next-occurring one (Queen's English usage), except for the one that it obviously isn't (ie, the "very-next"; Irish usage).

    I hope this is seen as a reasonable compromise.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Speaking of terms of speech - 'Inside in' (as in 'the spoon is inside in the drawer) seemingly drives people who speak flawless English (or 'Europeans' as I call them) crazy.
    That only confuses them if you give equal emphasis to the "inside" and the "in". If you introduce a comma after the "inside" during speech, you can cause Queen's Anglophiles' brains to melt.

    BTW, one item that we've never got straight chez robindch, is the usage of "up" as in "up to Dublin". We eschew the Queen's usage of "up" being conceptually towards the capital and "down" as away from it (ie, "One went up to London from Oxford for the summer, but will be returning down to Cambridge as soon as one's chair there is confirmed."), and instead refer to directions in terms of usual map direction ("I went up to Dublin from Kerry th'other day and I'll be heading on up to Donegal for the weekend, then back down to Kerry next Wednesday.")


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    What about when people say 'The Tuesday before last'?
    That's the opposite of "the Tuesday after next Tuesday" (ie, "Tuesday week"). One could logically extend this rule and use either "Tuesday week last" or "Last Tuesday week" or for simplicity's sake, just "Tuesday last week".

    To be avoided, unless one is speaking with the English.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Dunno if it has been posted already..

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/religious-control-of-schools-is-neither-tolerant-nor-inclusive-1.1403265?page=1
    Religious control of schools is neither tolerant nor inclusive

    Sheila Maher
    Last Updated: Thursday, May 23, 2013, 07:29

    This month will be marked by thousands of new communicants entering the Catholic faith in Ireland. I admire Hilary Fannin’s ability to take a light-hearted and humorous approach to this sacrament and its associated commercialism in her recent column ( Irish Times , May 17th), but I cannot see any funny side to this sacrament given the impact its promotion has on those pupils in Catholic schools who are not a part of it.

    After almost four years of involvement in cake sales and fundraising, bingo games, summer fetes and school plays, my daughter’s sense of belonging and inclusion in her local national school has come to an abrupt end.

    For the past few weeks, my daughter has, for vast swathes of time, been reading, drawing and colouring on her own to alleviate her boredom and provide distraction during what is official class time. She is not making her Communion, unlike almost all her fellow pupils. Notwithstanding the kindness and professionalism of her teacher, my daughter’s exclusion is palpable and has caused considerable distress.

    I know some readers will ask why I chose to send her to a Catholic school in the first place. To that question the answers are simple.

    First, it is the local school, the school for my community and I wish my family to be a part of that community.

    Second, I am a taxpaying citizen of this State and my taxes fund this school.

    Third, the non-Catholic school options in the area in which I live are minimal, as is the case nationwide: the vast majority (96 per cent) of primary schools in Ireland are owned and under the patronage of religious denominations and approximately 90 per cent of these schools are owned and under the patronage of the Catholic Church.

    How will we ever achieve tolerance and diversity in education and by extension society if we continually exclude non-Catholic children from some of the activities of these classrooms? The system of education that exists in Ireland today is essentially one of fundamentalist State-sponsored Catholic control.


    ‘One religion here’
    Ireland of the thousand welcomes is a different place inside the four walls of a national school classroom; there it is a case of “one religion here”, “others, or none, over there”.

    If the rights of the child, which are said to be taken seriously by State and society, are of genuine concern, then why can we not discuss the rights of the child in the classroom? Why must non-Catholic children continue to endure a different education to their Catholic peers? Where is the equality in that?

    Can religious tuition not be undertaken outside of core school hours so that a level playing pitch is provided in the classroom? While there are such pilot schemes under way around the country as a result of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector established in 2011, anyone who has observed the speed at which the church relinquishes control in this country understands that such schemes may not be rolled out for decades, during which more children will suffer discrimination in a room that should prize them as equals.

    I am still baffled at the inertia shown with regard to removing the education of so many of our children from the control of the Catholic Church.

    I am aware that in the 2011 census 84.2 per cent of respondents ticked the “Catholic” box. But how many of these are “Catholics” that have not been inside a church since their wedding day or their child’s christening? How many of these are the same “Catholics” who do not know when to genuflect, kneel or stand during the Communion Mass?

    Are these also the “Catholics” who complain that they are forced to attend six Masses before their child can make his or her Communion? Are these the same “Catholics” who have told me that they will get their child into better secondary schools if they are seen to have their children take Catholic sacraments? My experience of many fellow parents suggests little evidence of genuine faith or Catholic practice on their part.


    State-sponsored religious control
    I am not intolerant of any religion. What I do object to is the exclusion of my children inside their classrooms. This State-sponsored religious control is not tolerant or inclusive. To many of my peers, my generation of 40-somethings who espouse liberal views on women’s equality, the environment, social issues and rights, and who are forthright and outspoken and for the most part proud of their tolerance on these questions, I say this: you have a blind spot when it comes to the Catholic Church and display much hypocrisy.

    Whether it is to keep grandparents happy, or smooth your child’s path through the education system or just to make life easy, your selfishness, blind box-ticking and facilitating your children’s induction into a church that you are not a real, practising part of, all have the same end result: the continuance of church control of schools and a failure to create diverse and inclusive classrooms.


    Sheila Maher is a writer and VEC teacher based in Dublin
    © 2013 irishtimes.com


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Wow, I can't believe something other than biscuits is causing this much debate within A&A. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Biscuits and grammar are serious business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sarky wrote: »
    Biscuits and grammar are serious business.

    as is cookies and talkin & writin proper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    robindch wrote: »
    Yes, that can be true.

    I've decided to steer a middle line on this one -- hence "next" referring to the next-occurring one (Queen's English usage), except for the one that it obviously isn't (ie, the "very-next"; Irish usage).

    I hope this is seen as a reasonable compromise.That only confuses them if you give equal emphasis to the "inside" and the "in". If you introduce a comma after the "inside" during speech, you can cause Queen's Anglophiles' brains to melt.

    BTW, one item that we've never got straight chez robindch, is the usage of "up" as in "up to Dublin". We eschew the Queen's usage of "up" being conceptually towards the capital and "down" as away from it (ie, "One went up to London from Oxford for the summer, but will be returning down to Cambridge as soon as one's chair there is confirmed."), and instead refer to directions in terms of usual map direction ("I went up to Dublin from Kerry th'other day and I'll be heading on up to Donegal for the weekend, then back down to Kerry next Wednesday.")

    Also guaranteed to melt the brains of our neighbours is answering a question with a question - I had years of fun doing this.

    Everyday situations are best for maximum irritation -
    'Are you going to the shop?' = ' Do you want something?
    'Is a bus due?' = 'Are you going to town?'
    'Is it raining? = 'Are you going out?'
    'What day do we get paid?' = 'Have you no money?'

    I have found the best way to annoy most Irish people is to answer the question they actually asked in the most literal way possible.
    'Will you bring that in before you? = 'I'm afraid I can't. Would you like me to bring it with me instead?.'

    I have recently taken to responding to statements which contain the word 'what' as if it was a question.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Just spotted this debate. My London fella is always berating me about it. If I was to say (today being thursday) "Next Friday week", which Friday would I be talking about? The 7th June, clearly ;)

    I'm with which ever one of you was taking about proximity to the day in question. If I was talking about the 31st, I would say "This Friday week". No? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Obliq wrote: »
    Just spotted this debate. My London fella is always berating me about it. If I was to say (today being thursday) "Next Friday week", which Friday would I be talking about? The 7th June, clearly ;)

    I'm with which ever one of you was taking about proximity to the day in question. If I was talking about the 31st, I would say "This Friday week". No? :confused:

    You see, that's the kind of situation where it's just easier to say Friday the 7th.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    I'm no fan of Niall Boylan but the guy started a debate about vaccinations on his 4fm lateshow facebook page. He is currently being overrun by people shouting about the dangers of vaccines. So, if anyone has free time or whatever here you know where to go. :pac:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Obliq wrote: »
    I'm with which ever one of you was taking about proximity to the day in question. If I was talking about the 31st, I would say "This Friday week".
    That was seamus, but I'm unconvinced.

    Today is Thursday 23rd, so:

    Friday 17th = "Last Friday"
    Friday 24th = "Tomorrow", "This Friday", "Friday this week"
    Friday 31st = "Next Friday", "Friday next week"
    Friday 7th = "Friday week", "Tomorrow two weeks"

    Saturday 18th = "Last Saturday"
    Saturday 25th = "Next Saturday", "This Saturday"
    Saturday 1st = "Saturday week", "Saturday next week"
    Saturday 8th = "Saturday two weeks"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    robindch wrote: »
    That was seamus, but I'm unconvinced.

    Today is Thursday 23rd, so:

    Friday 17th = "Last Friday"
    Friday 24th = "Tomorrow", "This Friday", "Friday this week"
    Friday 31st = "FRIDAY WEEK","Next Friday", "Friday next week"
    Friday 7th = "NEXTFriday week", "Tomorrow two weeks"

    Saturday 18th = "Last Saturday"
    Saturday 25th = "Next Saturday", "This Saturday"
    Saturday 1st = "Saturday week", "Saturday next week"
    Saturday 8th = "NEXTSaturday week ('two weeks' optional extra)"

    Oh dear. No. You have it all wrong. Hope that clears it up for you. Probably should go argue with moronic anti-vax people though....:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    kylith wrote: »
    You see, that's the kind of situation where it's just easier to say Friday the 7th.

    Not very poetic though... Sure we might as well just all be talking like robots? Where's the joy and flow?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    In so far as I can tell in Irish English.
    "Next Tuesday" means Tuesday next week. 28th May
    "This Tuesday" means Tuesday this current week. 21st May

    It's one of those illogical Irish idioms that when you look closely at the wording it makes no sense. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Jernal wrote: »
    In so far as I can tell in Irish English.
    "Next Tuesday" means Tuesday next week. 28th May
    "This Tuesday" means Tuesday this current week. 21st May

    It's one of those illogical Irish idioms that when you look closely at the wording it makes no sense. :)

    No, it depends on tense too... so "I went to the shops on Tuesday" refers to the Tuesday of this week.
    "This Tuesday, I went to the shops" would also be the 21st.
    "Last Tuesday" was the 14th.
    But if I'm talking about something that will happen then "this Tuesday" is the 28th... and next Tuesday is the one after that...

    But to avoid confusion just leave out this and next and go with Tuesday = the 21st and Tuesday week which could be any day at all because who makes plans that far in advance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Jayzuz - no wonder we get feck all done in this country. :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Isn't that a sentence fragment..?


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