why do Americans. ..

Reindeer · 22-05-2013 07:00PM

seamus wrote: »

It's generally accepted that the only reason marijuana is illegal is because the US timber industry was terrified of hemp - it grew quicker, more cheaply and was more robust as a material than trees. So they not only launched publicity campaigns about the evils of smoking hemp, but also bribed and pressurised politicians in passing laws making hemp and hemp growing illegal.

Generally accepted by whom? The predominant wood we use in construction in The States is Douglas Fir(Pseudotsuga menziesii). Once treated, it is more pliable with far more tensile strength than many oaks(87mPA vs as little as 60 - which also gives it more tensile strength than polypropylene and nylon). It can make solid planks and beams up to 200 feet in length. The entire Pacific Northwest is basically a tree farm for this particular type of conifer. It also is dimensionally stable as it seasons(it does not change in size or warp as it dries after harvesting or building). It is about as perfect a wood for building as you could design, let alone find. It is resistant to insects, and when creosoted can be used in long-lived marine applications where most other woods would only last a few years. It is fast growing, easy on the environment it is in, and when farmed on mountainsides as in the PNW, becomes very strong indeed. When you harvest it, you can sequester the carbon in it for several generations, while the newly planted Fir trees absorb yet more carbon.

Many homes in The States are built with Brick or Stone as well. But this is considerably more expensive in many places, and take much longer to rebuild as well. In any case, as has been mentioned previously, no modern house in Ireland can withstand 200MPH winds either. The winds are not the worst of your worries, really. It's the tree, rocks, asphalt, and vehicles flying about at 200mph that really do the damage. Many folks in Tornado areas simply build shelters.

mattjack · 22-05-2013 07:06PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I grew up in the US, and I am surprised to hear that Irish building is considered 'high quality'? I lived in three different houses in Dublin, and every single one was extremely poorly insulated, both for weather and sound.

MadYaker wrote: »

I have a cousin who used to live in Oklahoma and after the tornado in 1999 that killed a load of people he found a spoon embedded in a brick. He kept it as a sort of souvenir, you can carry the brick around by the handle and it doesn't fall off. His family was lucky though, their house wasn't destroyed.

Clearly , our houses should be made of spoons.

MadYaker · 22-05-2013 07:07PM

Id like to see the construction costs for a residential building that can withstand having a pickup truck flung at it at 150mph... Building tornado proof houses is totally impractical, the best you can do is build a solid underground shelter. Unfortunately it seems most houses in Oklahoma, and even schools and hospitals, don't have them.

Sofiztikated · 22-05-2013 07:09PM

syklops wrote: »

That is the more pertinent question. Irish houses are literally bullet proof, but not insulated very well, and often built on flood plains, despite the only extreme weather we get is sub zero temperatures, where insulation would come in handy, and flooding.

And...

Every room in my house has some form of hole in the wall.

Kitchen - Vent from extractor fan, vents in windows
Sitting room - chimney, vents in windows
Utility room - vent from extractor fan, vents in windows
Bathrooms - vents from extractor fans, vents in windows
Bedrooms - vents in windows.

crockholm · 22-05-2013 07:20PM

MadYaker wrote: »

I have a cousin who used to live in Oklahoma and after the tornado in 1999 that killed a load of people he found a spoon embedded in a brick. He kept it as a sort of souvenir, you can carry the brick around by the handle and it doesn't fall off. His family was lucky though, their house wasn't destroyed.

Glad to hear they were safe.While it would be an amusing oddity to see a spoon embedded in a brick,a standard half-brick construction (like in modern houses) would not stand up to the bombardment from a tornado.

I have seen footage of a piece of lumber, 2 x 2, being fired at about 200 mph at a half brick wall as a test,the wood shattered the brick and went through it :eek:

So,were I there,I would be inclined to have a thick (325 + mm) brick,or better again,stone,pref. granite house, assuming I would be rich enough, which of course I'm not, and despite all my pontificating, would probably be in a trailer in a trailer park,which really do seem to draw the wrath of tornado's:o

locum-motion · 23-05-2013 03:00AM

seamus wrote: »

...It's generally accepted that the only reason marijuana is illegal is because the US timber industry was terrified of hemp - it grew quicker, more cheaply and was more robust as a material than trees. So they not only launched publicity campaigns about the evils of smoking hemp, but also bribed and pressurised politicians in passing laws making hemp and hemp growing illegal...

Reindeer wrote: »

Generally accepted by whom? The predominant wood we use in construction in The States is Douglas Fir(Pseudotsuga menziesii). Once treated, it is more pliable with far more tensile strength than many oaks(87mPA vs as little as 60 - which also gives it more tensile strength than polypropylene and nylon). It can make solid planks and beams up to 200 feet in length. The entire Pacific Northwest is basically a tree farm for this particular type of conifer. It also is dimensionally stable as it seasons(it does not change in size or warp as it dries after harvesting or building). It is about as perfect a wood for building as you could design, let alone find. It is resistant to insects, and when creosoted can be used in long-lived marine applications where most other woods would only last a few years. It is fast growing, easy on the environment it is in, and when farmed on mountainsides as in the PNW, becomes very strong indeed. When you harvest it, you can sequester the carbon in it for several generations, while the newly planted Fir trees absorb yet more carbon.

Many homes in The States are built with Brick or Stone as well. But this is considerably more expensive in many places, and take much longer to rebuild as well. In any case, as has been mentioned previously, no modern house in Ireland can withstand 200MPH winds either. The winds are not the worst of your worries, really. It's the tree, rocks, asphalt, and vehicles flying about at 200mph that really do the damage. Many folks in Tornado areas simply build shelters.

I thought that seemed a bit 'conspiracy theory/urban legend' allright. Your post is more believable, Reindeer.

Wibbs · 23-05-2013 09:52AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Building tornado proof houses is totally impractical, the best you can do is build a solid underground shelter.

Or the answer is right there in that sentence. Build domed semi underground houses. Like a "Hobbit house" made from poured reinforced concrete. Good for insulation too. If you designed it in a modular fashion you could bring the costs down too.

stoneill · 23-05-2013 10:25AM

They have loads of chippies but not that many brickies.

Reindeer · 24-05-2013 10:12AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or the answer is right there in that sentence. Build domed semi underground houses. Like a "Hobbit house" made from poured reinforced concrete. Good for insulation too. If you designed it in a modular fashion you could bring the costs down too.

Or spend 100X less and maybe build a small shelter?

24-05-2013 11:23AM

I don't think building a house that wont fall to bits in a tornado is as difficult as people appear to think.

A good solid Irish house, double block wall on a raft foundation, hollow core for the 2nd floor etc is not going to fall to pieces unless its a monumental tornado. It would take the roof and the glass from the windows (though proper treble glazed windows would take a hell of a lot more than them flimsy looking windows you see in the US), but I'd wager the house would stay standing.

gobnaitolunacy · 24-05-2013 11:27AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or the answer is right there in that sentence. Build domed semi underground houses. Like a "Hobbit house" made from poured reinforced concrete. Good for insulation too. If you designed it in a modular fashion you could bring the costs down too.[/QUOTE

I think local planning regulations would thwart a development of concrete igloos.

crockholm · 24-05-2013 11:40AM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

Or the answer is right there in that sentence. Build domed semi underground houses. Like a "Hobbit house" made from poured reinforced concrete. Good for insulation too. If you designed it in a modular fashion you could bring the costs down too.[/QUOTE

I think local planning regulations would thwart a development of concrete igloos.

Maybe,a fact-finding trip to Albania is in order,bunkers dotted all round that formerly paranoid Enver Hoxcha fiefdom

Hownowcow · 24-05-2013 11:50AM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

And...

Every room in my house has some form of hole in the wall.

Kitchen - Vent from extractor fan, vents in windows
Sitting room - chimney, vents in windows
Utility room - vent from extractor fan, vents in windows
Bathrooms - vents from extractor fans, vents in windows
Bedrooms - vents in windows.

Have you no doors?

af_thefragile · 24-05-2013 12:28PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Why don't Irish people build basements?

While building regulations have improved here they still aren't really enforced that I can tell.

Cuz it'll be the perfect place for monsters and demons to lurk..,

du Maurier · 24-05-2013 12:37PM

Why do they do that strange dance whereby one foot is clasped by the hand and the knee is jolted in a piston-like motion? Never got it. Could be fun though

overshoot · 24-05-2013 12:54PM

Brynlee Rough Bathrobe wrote: »

I don't think building a house that wont fall to bits in a tornado is as difficult as people appear to think.

A good solid Irish house, double block wall on a raft foundation, hollow core for the 2nd floor etc is not going to fall to pieces unless its a monumental tornado. It would take the roof and the glass from the windows (though proper treble glazed windows would take a hell of a lot more than them flimsy looking windows you see in the US), but I'd wager the house would stay standing.

any tornado will lift a car, which will easily go through a block wall... as will any wooden posts at that speed. hurl a roof tile at your treble galzing... maybe it survives... now throw it at 3 times the pace and another 20 or so times which will happen in a tornado

you could consider the wall that fell in a shed a few months ago, that (admittedly it should have had piers) went over on a very gusty day despite being somewhat sheltered inside. the roof will lift, the frame in the attic destroyed and this ties the entire house together, without it the walls are suddenly short most of their stability and simply fall over under the pressure of that sort of wind

here is a mini tornado in birmingham... the funnel is barely existent but it pulls down plenty of walls which would have a similar construction style to ours. now scale that up to one with a funnel a mile wide

Overheal · 24-05-2013 02:31PM

On Sullivan's Island about 40 minutes from where I live there is this peculiar Dome shaped Home on Folly Beach.

http://www.monolithic.com/stories/the-eye-of-the-storm

It's a dome shaped house made with aerodynamic considerations. It's stood since 1992 and cost $600,000 (in 1992 - today's dollar, $994k). The structure can withstand sustained wind speeds of up to 500mph. Oddly it's the kind of home I used to sketch out as a kid, vaguely, not knowing such a thing existed. So when I run off and make money I wanna build one.

However, this is a home designed for Hurricane considerations. And lets also think about the cost. Not everyone can afford a $1m construction project; the average home is $100k. Your home would have to be flattened 5-10 times over for this investment to make sense in a purely clinical sense. Obviously if you standardized this construction approach you could lower your costs, but not to 1/5th.

And think about "old homes" - permanency is not necessarily a great thing. The short of it is that a permanent structure is not always desirable for the added cost and also the simple things like, wtf will plumbing and electrical look like in 50 years? My grandfather built a home that has a concrete interior for shelter in a hurricane, but **** me if that shower is up to building code. No light or anything in it, and no way to add one unless you want to hire a wrecking crew to cut through all the rebar.

And a hurricane with sustained winds and rains in a relatively sustained direction, and an EF-4 Tornado with vortex winds of chaotic divergence and curl up to 200mph in a column thats a mile wide in diameter are vastly different concepts. The Dome Home can take a 500mph wind... of air and rain and water. Maybe sand and other light debris. But an 18-wheeler flung at you at 200mph? Force=Mass*Velocity. Sand at 500mph, 40 ton truck+trailer at 200mph, which one is going to hurt more?

Thing is you would have to engineer everything in the local area to resist being pulled up in a tornado and you simply cant. The first tree that gets uprooted and piledrives right through your neighbors house will destroy his, and his house becomes a weapon to destroy yours. The short version: it makes absolutely no sense to try and construct homes that will survive in a tornado. It just (currently) can't be done. All you accomplish is an even more expensive pile of debris. The best thing we can still do is build tornado shelters underneath the home itself (something which is ironically a terrible idea in a hurricane due to storm surges and flooding). We don't even have a good way to "windbreak" tornado alley. You can prevent dust storms by planting trees to border farmlands (and they did that after the great depression and dustbowl years) but tornados are a different consideration altogether, and the tornado doesn't give a **** about your tree.

CruelCoin · 25-05-2013 10:38AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I grew up in the US, and I am surprised to hear that Irish building is considered 'high quality'? I lived in three different houses in Dublin, and every single one was extremely poorly insulated, both for weather and sound.

Quote me the piece where i said "great Irish build quality" ?

You need only look at the news to see all the pyrite/floodplain building to know this is not the case.

Doesn't change the fact the drywall construction in a tornado zone is ****ty construction.

why do Americans. ..

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