Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

seamus · 17-05-2013 09:11AM

SamHall wrote: »

You are lucky so.

Others, saddled with mortgages in arrears, with houses worth in some cases a third of the mortgage aren't so lucky.

Where's their amnesty?

Where's the amnesty for those that paid stamp duty?

Why should they get an amnesty? They went in, eyes open, a property transaction where the value of property may rise or fall. It fell, deal with it.

**** happens. People need to cop on and take responsibility for their own situations rather than laying blame all around them and demanding that someone else digs them out.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 09:21AM

SamHall wrote: »

Others, saddled with mortgages in arrears, with houses worth in some cases a third of the mortgage aren't so lucky.

Where's their amnesty?

Why should investors in property get a dig-out when their investment goes wrong, and not investors in Bank shares, for example? At least property is still worth 40% of what they paid, my BoI bank shares are worth 1%.

One percent. (OK, 1% of what they were at the peak, not 1% of what my Auntie paid for them donkey's years ago - but the same applies to property).

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:23AM

seamus wrote: »

Why should they get an amnesty? They went in, eyes open, a property transaction where the value of property may rise or fall. It fell, deal with it.

**** happens. People need to cop on and take responsibility for their own situations rather than laying blame all around them and demanding that someone else digs them out.

If only our glorious leaders applied your logic to the banks, the bondholders, and even their own salaries.

After all Seamus, who 'dug out' the banks?

The same people who're being asked to cough up again.

I've taken responsibility for providing a home for my family, I paid stamp duty that was applicable when I bought it, and I pay the mortgage in full each month.

Let's hope cpa2 fails, the unions call for strikes, and this lying govt walk.

Chips Lovell · 17-05-2013 09:25AM

Leo Varadkar also apparently supported the invasion of Iraq. Should we also have gone in there too?

My car is worth less than I paid for it. Motor Tax amnesty ahoy!

seamus · 17-05-2013 09:27AM

SamHall wrote: »

If only our glorious leaders applied your logic to the banks, the bondholders, and even their own salaries.

After all Seamus, who 'dug out' the banks?

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. Which is the reason why the people who used our money to "dig out" the banks were hooshed out of government.

Unfortunately they left us with a big bill that still needs paying.

No amount of crying about taxes can change the fact that the last Government shackled us to debts that need paying.

Let's hope cpa2 fails, the unions call for strikes

I really hope the unions do strike and then they can see that the rest of the country don't support them and they'll be forced back to the negotiating table on much poorer terms.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 09:28AM

SamHall wrote: »

If only our glorious leaders applied your logic to the banks

It did: the owners of the Banks were wiped out, a 99% loss.

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:29AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Why should investors in property get a dig-out when their investment goes wrong, and not investors in Bank shares, for example? At least property is still worth 40% of what they paid, my BoI bank shares are worth 1%.

One percent. (OK, 1% of what they were at the peak, not 1% of what my Aunti paid for them donkey's years ago - but the same applies to property).

A homeowner is hardly an 'investor of property' my homes not for sale, neither did I buy it to make a quick buck.

When it suited the FG party (in opposition) they reminded us constantly that it was they who abolished the home tax, and that they weren't in favour of reintroducing it.

They got voted in, possibly on the strength of that.

Where's their mandate after that spectacular u-turn?

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:35AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Leo Varadkar also apparently supported the invasion of Iraq. Should we also have gone in there too?

My car is worth less than I paid for it. Motor Tax amnesty ahoy!

Any minute now, you're going to tell me the relevance to a war in Iraq and a property tax in Ireland.

Go.

seamus · 17-05-2013 09:37AM

SamHall wrote: »

A homeowner is hardly an 'investor of property' my homes not for sale, neither did I buy it to make a quick buck.

As soon as they try to sell that home, they are, basically.

If you didn't buy the property to make a quick buck and you've no intention of selling, then negative equity is not an issue.

Chips Lovell · 17-05-2013 09:37AM

SamHall wrote: »

When it suited the FG party (in opposition) they reminded us constantly that it was they who abolished the home tax, and that they weren't in favour of reintroducing it.

Labour was in favour of one. And they're in government too. It was part of their agreed programme for government.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 09:43AM

SamHall wrote: »

They got voted in, possibly on the strength of that.

They got voted in because Fianna Fail single-handedly destroyed our economic independence and brought in the IMF to run the place.

Property tax is way, way down the list of stuff falling on people thanks to that disaster.

Phoebas · 17-05-2013 09:43AM

SamHall wrote: »

They got voted in, possibly on the strength of that.

I don't recall Property Tax / HHC / LPT being a big issue in the last election campaign. I can't remember it coming up in the big debates at all or in the polling data.
Do you have a link?

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:44AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Labour was in favour of one. And they're in government too. It was part of their agreed programme for government.

What else were Labour 'in favour of' but u-turned on?

But it's ok, because sure that's what you do in an election.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 09:46AM

SamHall wrote: »

What else were Labour 'in favour of' but u-turned on?

Try to keep up: Labour were in favour of a Property tax, they did not U-turn on it.

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:46AM

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't recall Property Tax / HHC / LPT being a big issue in the last election campaign. I can't remember it coming up in the big debates at all or in the polling data.
Do you have a link?

Such a non issue that they felt the need to reiterate on their manifesto that they thought it 'was unfair, and they were not in favour of reintroducing it'?

A link?

Would you like several or will one do you?

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 09:48AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Try to keep up: Labour were in favour of a Property tax, they did not U-turn on it.

You should try and read posts more carefully tbh.

You understand what the word else means I presume?

Phoebas · 17-05-2013 09:50AM

SamHall wrote: »

Such a non issue that they felt the need to reiterate on their manifesto that they thought it 'was unfair, and they were not in favour of reintroducing it'?

A link?

Would you like several or will one do you?

They got voted in, possibly on the strength of that.

If you have several links that it was opposition to property tax that brought FG to power, please post them all.

I doubt you have any.

cageyeuclid · 17-05-2013 10:26AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Carer's need to own property?

cageyeuclid, you need to quit the personal jibes from here on in - its getting tiresome.

i specifically mentioned carers with DA offspring... what is to become of them when the parent dies if the house is seized by heartless revenue?? And please believe there are thousands like that, where those carers need to own the house. You dismissed them as "extreme examples" that is no jibe .... just an infuriating insult. Had you put any thought into the question I asked you would not have to make a snide remark like:

Carer's need to own property?

And don't be so smug about LPT deferral not taking your house.

http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/davidbeggbetrayal.htm

"As I was reminded recently by a friend in East Anglia, the U.K.'s equivalent of the bin tax charges started at about 188 Euro and now run at around a staggering 4,334 Euro a year"

(Gerry Ryan, 2FM, The Star On Sunday, 19.10.2003).

And unlike this govt's LPT the UK have "tax benefits" for jobseekers and the poor. UK council taxes vary around BP£3,200. That is where LPT is headed.
If water rates succeed, then a total of over €5,000 yearly is likely . How about that for "modest charges" (you said that) and (pro rata) still nothing compared to the extortionate old rates.

As for personal jibes ... it was you who denied the slur cast in your own posts on those unable to defend themselves. My remarks are fair and jusified and the bare truth.

Phoebas · 17-05-2013 10:45AM

cageyeuclid wrote: »

As for personal jibes ... it was you who denied the slur cast in your own posts on those unable to defend themselves. My remarks are fair and jusified and the bare truth.

But they are against the charter here - so you need to quit.

cageyeuclid · 17-05-2013 10:57AM

Phoebas wrote: »

But they are against the charter here - so you need to quit.

Oh!!!! you mean the "poster" typo... I already said sorry ... LOL

Hijpo · 17-05-2013 11:41AM

seamus wrote: »

As soon as they try to sell that home, they are, basically.

If you didn't buy the property to make a quick buck and you've no intention of selling, then negative equity is not an issue.

By that analogy if we are forced to sell the home due to not being able to repay the mortgage people are investors? Say we owe €200,000 on the balance. It only sells for €120,000 where do we get the €80,000?
Will it be writen off like so many other deals done for big institutions who can easily pay?

seamus · 17-05-2013 11:45AM

cageyeuclid wrote: »

i specifically mentioned carers with DA offspring... what is to become of them when the parent dies if the house is seized by heartless revenue?? And please believe there are thousands like that, where those carers need to own the house.

Why do carers need to own property? Why can't they rent?

Besides, nobody gets thrown out on the street in this country, least of all someone who requires special care. Even if the "heartless Revenue" were to seize the property, no judge would serve an eviction order unless alternative accommodation had been secured for the person.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 11:48AM

Hijpo wrote: »

Say we owe €200,000 on the balance. It only sells for €120,000 where do we get the €80,000?

The same place Sean Quinn will get the billions he borrowed to buy bank shares which lost value.

Will it get written off? Yes, if you declare bankruptcy.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 12:04PM

SamHall wrote: »

You should try and read posts more carefully tbh.

OK, so when you said: "What else were Labour 'in favour of' but u-turned on?", you meant "What else were they in favour of but u-turned on, unlike their consistent approach to LPT?". Fair enough.

Several things, for example, income tax: Labour were in favour of hiking the top rate of income tax, and they "U-turned" (aka compromised) on that because FG opposed it.

Both parties compromised: that's how it works everywhere there are coalitions.

Hijpo · 17-05-2013 12:17PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The same place Sean Quinn will get the billions he borrowed to buy bank shares which lost value.

Will it get written off? Yes, if you declare bankruptcy.

I doubt joe soap will have the leverage and contacts Quinn has.
Do we get to keep the house if we declare ourselves bankrupt like Ger Killally?

Hijpo · 17-05-2013 12:19PM

seamus wrote: »

Why do carers need to own property? Why can't they rent?

Besides, nobody gets thrown out on the street in this country, least of all someone who requires special care. Even if the "heartless Revenue" were to seize the property, no judge would serve an eviction order unless alternative accommodation had been secured for the person.

Wasnt there efforts made to evict a 63-year-old cancer patient and her daughter from their home?

seamus · 17-05-2013 12:29PM

Hijpo wrote: »

Wasnt there efforts made to evict a 63-year-old cancer patient and her daughter from their home?

Do you have a link?

I've heard a number of similar stories, but they basically all are cases where the sheriff/court was unaware that there was an ill person in the house, or where the residents were simply refusing to move even though they were well able to, ill or not.

Banjo String · 17-05-2013 12:34PM

Phoebas wrote: »

If you have several links that it was opposition to property tax that brought FG to power, please post them all.

I doubt you have any.

Ok, fair enough.

Would you like some links though that prove they're losing support due to the property tax (among other reasons) to FF who've once again become the biggest party in the state?

FF openly oppose the tax now, you can call that a coincidence if you like.

Hijpo · 17-05-2013 12:34PM

seamus wrote: »

Do you have a link?

I've heard a number of similar stories, but they basically all are cases where the sheriff/court was unaware that there was an ill person in the house, or where the residents were simply refusing to move even though they were well able to, ill or not.

Ill have to look when i get home, from what i (briefly) remember they know shes not well but the eviction notice still stands.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2013 12:36PM

Hijpo wrote: »

I doubt joe soap will have the leverage and contacts Quinn has.

I doubt if Joe Soap will be in court, or in jail, unlike Sean Quinn.

Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

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