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Season 3: Episode 7 * Have NOT read the books *MOD NOTE Post#1*

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Comments

  • #92
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Jaime is a knight, so I presume it's his job to help the helpless. He killed the mad king to save the city, knowing how people would look down on him after it.


  • #93
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Degag wrote: »
    Question:

    Why do people think Jaime saved Brienne? He has as such saved her twice, from being raped and being killed by the bear. Don't seem to remember her saving him from anything.

    For the first 2 seasons he didn't show any morals, is it a new morality from having his hand chopped off or just some kind of respect he has for her?

    Respect and being away from the pampered Lannister lifestyle in King's Landing has given him some humility. Jaime's story has been great this season, he's gone from unlikeable to someone you want to root for. Finding out where the Kingslayer name came from and his side of the story was cool.


  • #94
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Compare that with Theon, where he's apparently getting Varys'ed & nobody gives a damn :D

    I care! I find the Theon torturing scenes stomach churning and upsetting, especially the psychological abuse that's going with them. I can't help but wonder if they're trying to break Theon down to build him up again as some kind of pawn, either that or the sadistic horn blower is pure evil. What makes his plight less comment worthy is that we know he's already condemned by Robb Stark and that he's already given up all his information. I really hope they stop torturing him soon and progress his storyline.


  • #95
    December2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Jamie has always had honour in him.

    Honourable people do bad things though.


  • #96
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    longhalloween wrote: »
    Jaime is a knight, so I presume it's his job to help the helpless. He killed the mad king to save the city, knowing how people would look down on him after it.

    Like the attempted murder of a child??

    Also Brienne is not so helpless. She saved Jaime when they were apprehended by the Stark men who strung up the whores. She also stopped him from drowning in the bath and looked out for him on the ride to Harrenhall after he'd had his hand cut off.


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  • #97
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Jaime gets an awful lot of bad press for the Bran incident but from what I can recall it he was all on for letting the boy be and it was his sister who insisted on Bran being pushed.


  • #98
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Jaime gets an awful lot of bad press for the Bran incident but from what I can recall it he was all on for letting the boy be and it was his sister who insisted on Bran being pushed.

    He still did the pushing. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely warming to Jaime and can see his good points coming through but I was just using the Bran incident to refute the previous posters assertion that Jaime went back for Brienne because he was a knight and honour bound to protect the weak and helpless. I think that he went back because he is developing feelings for Brienne. She is pretty much the only person who has seen him in his fallen mutilated state and shown him respect and compassion. I don't think that he went back purely because it was the right thing to do- his conduct towards Bran shows that if it comes between the honourable thing and what serves him and his family best he still chooses to serve his own interests. Don't forget that in slaying the Mad King he was saving the life of his father, his family and himself as well as the lives of the rest of the population of Kings Landing.


  • #99
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    I wonder if one watched the show again from the beginning, having seen Jaime's development this season, would one's perspective be any different?

    Feels like a good time to post this great scene!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3kUmm0yenY


  • #100
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    He still did the pushing. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely warming to Jaime and can see his good points coming through but I was just using the Bran incident to refute the previous posters assertion that Jaime went back for Brienne because he was a knight and honour bound to protect the weak and helpless. I think that he went back because he is developing feelings for Brienne. She is pretty much the only person who has seen him in his fallen mutilated state and shown him respect and compassion. I don't think that he went back purely because it was the right thing to do- his conduct towards Bran shows that if it comes between the honourable thing and what serves him and his family best he still chooses to serve his own interests. Don't forget that in slaying the Mad King he was saving the life of his father, his family and himself as well as the lives of the rest of the population of Kings Landing.

    He went back for Brienne because he found that they were going to toy with her before killing her because they only were offered a randsom of 300 sapphires. They were insulted by the offer because they believed Briennes family had more wealth than that because Jamie had lied to them about her family's wealth in the forrest. He felt guilty because his lies were going to get someone killed.


  • #101
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    krudler wrote: »
    was anyone else really hoping Jaime would do a 300 style kick to yer man and send him bear bound :pac:
    Pretty much; but then given this show refuses to indulge in any kind of audience wish-fulfillment, I didn't expect it to happen; mind you, I guess having turned over a new leaf Jaime no longer feels the need to push people off tall ledges :pac:


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  • #102
    December2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    I wonder if one watched the show again from the beginning, having seen Jaime's development this season, would one's perspective be any different?

    Feels like a good time to post this great scene!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3kUmm0yenY

    Always good. When its over I'm going to do a big rewatch.


  • #103
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Pretty much; but then given this show refuses to indulge in any kind of audience wish-fulfillment, I didn't expect it to happen; mind you, I guess having turned over a new leaf Jaime no longer feels the need to push people off tall ledges :pac:

    Can you edit that to remove my quote? I thought the guy who took Jaime's hand was someone else so namedropped a book character by mistake, my bad


  • #104
    iamanengine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭iamanengine


    What's this about Tyrion's wife? I can't remember a thing about that, or I've just completely forgotten!


  • #105
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    krudler wrote: »
    Can you edit that to remove my quote? I thought the guy who took Jaime's hand was someone else so namedropped a book character by mistake, my bad

    Ah, that explains that. I only knew who you were talking about by the scene; was wondering where in the show that name was mentioned. No worries :)
    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    I care! I find the Theon torturing scenes stomach churning and upsetting, especially the psychological abuse that's going with them. I can't help but wonder if they're trying to break Theon down to build him up again as some kind of pawn, either that or the sadistic horn blower is pure evil. What makes his plight less comment worthy is that we know he's already condemned by Robb Stark and that he's already given up all his information. I really hope they stop torturing him soon and progress his storyline.

    Perhaps, but like everything else there has to be some form of context or narrative to a characters suffering / struggle, otherwise it's just pointless filler - or in the case of it being torture, sadistic even.

    I think the comparison with Jaime is entirely apt because the show deliberately softened the character so that the dismemberment would be that more shocking to the audience; it made narrative sense too because clearly it'll have to be a watershed moment for the man (how couldn't it?) that'll continue his change. With Theon though, he has been written as such an unlikeable, odious, and pathetic character, his constant torture is just tedious & seems like a delaying of the inevitable.

    I'm sure we'll find out the why, maybe even the who (there's a very small list of possibilities, barring an 11th hour surprise), but at this stage it's hard to see how any payoff will make up for the succession of dull scenes.

    Mind you, maybe I'm just completely desensitized by years of violent cinema & TV. Tbh, I've got so used to the OTT violence in Game of Thrones, a little castration seems humdrum in comparison. I don't think it's that in all honesty, because I was still upset when I saw Roz strung by Joffrey :(


  • #106
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    iamanengine wrote: »
    What's this about Tyrion's wife? I can't remember a thing about that, or I've just completely forgotten!

    from season 1 where himself Bronn and Shae are in the camp and he tells the story about him falling for and marrying a whore, then Tywin found out and let his men have their way with her. thats why Tywin tells him the next whore he finds in his bed he'll hang, and Tyrion's insistence on keeping Shae a secret.


  • #107
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    I wonder if one watched the show again from the beginning, having seen Jaime's development this season, would one's perspective be any different?

    Feels like a good time to post this great scene!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3kUmm0yenY

    As an aside, in this scene Robert talks about killing one of the Tarley family who later surrendered. Isn't that Sam's family name (fat lad from the Nights Watch). Love all the tiny connections in this show!


  • #108
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Perhaps, but like everything else there has to be some form of context or narrative to a characters suffering / struggle, otherwise it's just pointless filler - or in the case of it being torture, sadistic even.

    I think the comparison with Jaime is entirely apt because the show deliberately softened the character so that the dismemberment would be that more shocking to the audience; it made narrative sense too because clearly it'll have to be a watershed moment for the man (how couldn't it?) that'll continue his change. With Theon though, he has been written as such an unlikeable, odious, and pathetic character, his constant torture is just tedious & seems like a delaying of the inevitable.

    I'm sure we'll find out the why, maybe even the who (there's a very small list of possibilities, barring an 11th hour surprise), but at this stage it's hard to see how any payoff will make up for the succession of dull scenes.

    Mind you, maybe I'm just completely desensitized by years of violent cinema & TV. Tbh, I've got so used to the OTT violence in Game of Thrones, a little castration seems humdrum in comparison. I don't think it's that in all honesty, because I was still upset when I saw Roz strung by Joffrey :(

    I am more sensitive than most to these things...I've only started watching GoT properly this year because I was pregnant and BFing when the last two seasons were out and had to physically leave the room any time something horrible happened- that massacre of the innocents scene scarred me!

    What I find most upsetting about these scenes is that they seem so pointless, and the way that the torturer keeps raising his hopes only to plunge him further into despair. Although he's not the nicest character and has lots of flaws I still feel for Theon. It's like he's never fully belonged. He was never considered an equal in the Stark household although he tried to bully Jon Snow to put himself above him. Then all the qualities that Ned Stark tried to instill in him were scorned by his father. I think he comes across as a confused boy looking for approval. No one deserves what's being done to him. I really hope they stop dragging it out and bring it to some conclusion.


  • #109
    Syferus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I think Theon is one of the most engaging characters in the show. It's hard not the feel for him when he's caught between two worlds and recognises and regrets his actions. I think his actor does an excellent job of showing an undercurrent of frailty in almost every scene, he's a boy playing at being a man. I hope he finds some measure of redemption.


  • #110
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    As an aside, in this scene Robert talks about killing one of the Tarley family who later surrendered. Isn't that Sam's family name (fat lad from the Nights Watch). Love all the tiny connections in this show!

    Yes it is, the Tarlys are bannermen of the Tyrells. Olenna also mentions the war when she was speaking to Varys, her son had besieged Stannis in Storms End during the war.


  • #111
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Have started watching season 1 again. It's actually refreshing to watch episodes where the action isn't jumping so much.

    I'd like to see a character cull. Keep Arya, Dany, the Lannisters and maybe Jon Snow.

    The rest I'm finding hugely boring. Robb is the biggest letdown. Another pointless part in this episode, as was Bran's and Theon's.

    That said, I would have had hopes for Dany's demise last year so hopefully some of the tedious storylines can pick up.


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  • #112
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Have started watching season 1 again. It's actually refreshing to watch episodes where the action isn't jumping so much.

    I'd like to see a character cull. Keep Arya, Dany, the Lannisters and maybe Jon Snow.

    The rest I'm finding hugely boring. Robb is the biggest letdown. Another pointless part in this episode, as was Bran's and Theon's.

    That said, I would have had hopes for Dany's demise last year so hopefully some of the tedious storylines can pick up.

    Wow, you are ruthless! :P

    In the beginning the number of storylines bothered me but now I think it adds a real richness to the narrative since they've had the scope for character development over the three seasons.

    I'm glad that they've stopped switching around between all the storylines instead concentrating on a few each week. I did get annoyed at them spending so long torturing Theon when there were so many other characters I'd like to see. I would like to see more of Sam and Gilly. Also Littlefinger and Varys.

    It feels like there's not a lot of time left in the season and a lot of loose ends.


  • #113
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Yeah Varys hasn't gotten nearly enough screentime this season, he was such a big part of the last one and he's one of the best characters


  • #114
    Gbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    krudler wrote: »
    Yeah Varys hasn't gotten nearly enough screentime this season, he was such a big part of the last one and he's one of the best characters

    He's utterly brilliant.

    Had a gander at S2 Ep10 and he has a scene with Roz. There's nothing special about the scene but he makes it brilliant.


  • #115
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Gbear wrote: »
    He's utterly brilliant.

    Had a gander at S2 Ep10 and he has a scene with Roz. There's nothing special about the scene but he makes it brilliant.

    Was cool seeing darker side to him earlier this season, he's one of the few characters who has the interests of the realm above his own but isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and get what he wants as well, and along with Tyrion is one of the only people looking out for Sansa. Himself and Littlefinger played off each other so well, I loved the "chaos is a ladder" scene between them.


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