Dog has just been diagnosed with heart murmur and arthritis

ncmc · 15-05-2013 11:26AM #1

I’ve just found out that my almost seven year old Cocker Spaniel has arthritis in her back hip and also a heart murmur. I am totally shocked as I only noticed her limping slightly a few weeks ago and there was no indication before that. The vet is going to put us in touch with a specialist in Cork who will do an X-ray and check the severity of the arthritis and also the heart murmur before advising us on the level of medication required. I feel totally awful and guilty as up until I noticed the limp, I had been bringing her out jogging 4-5 miles with me. The vet says the two aren’t necessarily connected and it’s a problem in Cockers when they get to that age, but I still feel terribly guilty about it. I had checked with the vet beforehand and he had said that as long as she didn’t seem in pain or limping afterwards, then there was no problem bringing her jogging. But needless to say I wish I hadn’t now.

So, he has advised that we take her on shorter, more frequent walks, and also that we watch her food intake so that she doesn’t put on weight. Of course, we will get her whatever medication she requires. But does anyone else have any tips or hints about dealing with the arthritis and heart murmur? Has anyone else got a dog with these issues? I’m almost afraid to ask, but it is it likely to affect her life expectancy?

I just feel in total shock as she has always been so well looked after, best food, plenty of exercise etc. I stupidly thought this would be enough to keep her healthy until well into old age.

Any experiences or advise would be much appreciated.

anniehoo · 15-05-2013 11:31AM

ncmc wrote: »

But does anyone else have any tips or hints about dealing with the arthritis and heart murmur?

OP please be advised that accepting medical advice from strangers on the internet is not advised. All other posters please be mindful that this forum is not a substitute for professional medical advice from a qualified Veterinary surgeon.

ncmc · 15-05-2013 11:36AM

anniehoo wrote: »

OP please be advised that accepting medical advice from strangers on the internet is not advised. All other posters please be mindful that this forum is not a substitute for professional medical advice from a qualified Veterinary surgeon.

Hi Anniehoo, definitely not looking for medical advice, we are bringing her to a specialist to get her fully checked out and the severity of both issues assessed. Really just looking for other peoples experiences, how the issues have affected their dog, maybe alternative remedies we could try in addition to the recommended medication.

anniehoo · 15-05-2013 11:40AM

No problem just making sure that you are aware that taking alternative advice on a medical condition should only be done in conjunction with your vets approval.

15-05-2013 11:58AM

Arthritis is not unusual in a dog of that age. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just follow the advice of your Vet. Watch the diet and keep up the shorter walks. The heart murmer should not cause too many problems either. Humans and animals lead normal lives with heart murmers. Again, be guided by your Vet. Try not to get too anxious, as you won't enjoy your pet as you should. Good Luck!

paultf · 15-05-2013 12:13PM

ncmc wrote: »

So, he has advised that we take her on shorter, more frequent walks, and also that we watch her food intake so that she doesn’t put on weight. Of course, we will get her whatever medication she requires. But does anyone else have any tips or hints about dealing with the arthritis and heart murmur? Has anyone else got a dog with these issues? I’m almost afraid to ask, but it is it likely to affect her life expectancy?

Hi ncmc,

Sorry to hear about your dog and I hope everything works out alright.

My eldest cocker (11 in November) Darby is going through something similar. Last year I noticed he started to slow down a bit - literally overnight. First thing I noticed was the walks: when it was time to go he would stay in his bed. Then when I coaxed him into the kitchen and produced the harness, he would hide in the livingroom. I didn't know what was going on so I toke him on the long walks with the other younger dogs. Previously he would be out front walking, now he was behind. Also he stopped barking at passing dogs.

Thanks to some advice on here I toke him to the vets. The vet spotted the heart murmur straight away. Arranged for a heart scan which showed he had a leaking valve. He was put on heart meds - halve a tablet in the morning and halve in the evening.

I now take him on shorter walks - 30/45 minutes. I find he can struggle going up a hill and if off-lead with the other dogs he runs too quicky at the start and tires himself out. So I have to be careful at times that he doesn't over exert himself.

Also I noticed he was sluggish getting up from his bed. In the evenings if he was comfortable in his bed he won't go outside with the others to explore or go to the toilet. So I got some joint care tablets. Also I started him on salmon oil last week.

My vets advised me to get the heart scan done once a year. I just got that done on Monday last. The leaking valve hasn't worsened and the vet thinks he will be around for a while. He did some x-rays also. One showed a slight problem with the lungs which may be caused by old age. The vet told me to keep a check on his breathing. Also he mentioned he had stiffness in his hind legs which I didn't notice before. He mentioned joint care tablets with pain killers. OP, like you I missed the problem with the legs and I'll have to keep an eye out that it is not arthritis. (Darby doesn't seem to be in pain with his legs.) The vet also mentioned that Darby wasn't carrying any fat at all - which was good to hear and hopefully will hold him in good stead.

OP, hopefully everything works out for your dog. The advice I got was that a murmur is common enough and manageable - my local vet told me that these days there are all sorts of medications available for managing heart problems. Like my fella slowing done, it just means shorter walks. I found myself varying the walks for Darby - going to places we had never been before - mainly to make it more interesting for him, esp off-lead. Also I would take him on his own - leaving the other dogs behind - say if I was visiting a house - I found some days that was better than walking him everyday - he likes the extra attention.

(If you want the names of the meds or supplements let me know.)

cocker5 · 15-05-2013 02:00PM

ncmc wrote: »

I’ve just found out that my almost seven year old Cocker Spaniel has arthritis in her back hip and also a heart murmur. I am totally shocked as I only noticed her limping slightly a few weeks ago and there was no indication before that. The vet is going to put us in touch with a specialist in Cork who will do an X-ray and check the severity of the arthritis and also the heart murmur before advising us on the level of medication required. I feel totally awful and guilty as up until I noticed the limp, I had been bringing her out jogging 4-5 miles with me. The vet says the two aren’t necessarily connected and it’s a problem in Cockers when they get to that age, but I still feel terribly guilty about it. I had checked with the vet beforehand and he had said that as long as she didn’t seem in pain or limping afterwards, then there was no problem bringing her jogging. But needless to say I wish I hadn’t now.

So, he has advised that we take her on shorter, more frequent walks, and also that we watch her food intake so that she doesn’t put on weight. Of course, we will get her whatever medication she requires. But does anyone else have any tips or hints about dealing with the arthritis and heart murmur? Has anyone else got a dog with these issues? I’m almost afraid to ask, but it is it likely to affect her life expectancy?

I just feel in total shock as she has always been so well looked after, best food, plenty of exercise etc. I stupidly thought this would be enough to keep her healthy until well into old age.

Any experiences or advise would be much appreciated.

SNAP!!

OP i could have posted nearly the exact same thread except my guy hasnt been formally diagnoised yet.

Like you i have an 8 year old cocker, male, really well looked after, good quality food, I give him "salmon oil" every day in his food for his joints...

i used to run him 9k 3/4 times per week (my vet said it was fine) and in the last two weeks he has had a limp on one of his front paws and he has slowed down.... of course i stopped running him as soon i saw him with a limp, we didnt exercise him for a week, then walked him slowly 5k one eveing and the next day his limp was back :eek:

Vet told me to give him a rest and see again but im peterfied something else could be wrong with him so he's getting a full MOT next week.

http://www.biovea.com/ie/category_dispatch.aspx?CID=489&SCID=22160

I found the above website they do joint supplements for dogs etc im going to ask my vet about it etc...

Hope your cocker is doing ok X

andreac · 15-05-2013 02:05PM

Why wouldnt they cover the treatment?

Ncmc i would def claim for whatever you can. Im with petinsure and ive never ever had issues claiming from them and ive mad a few and a big one when Flo had her cruciate repair operation.

Mine arent vaccinated routinely every year either and arent always done by a vet and ive never had issues.

Not sure why the vets would even say that to be honest. Just get your vets to submit the claims and all the paperwork and there shouldnt be an issue.

paultf · 15-05-2013 02:48PM

ncmc wrote: »

Can I ask Paul, are the drugs your dog takes expensive?

The heart meds cost €38/month for 30 tablets ~ 1 a day. With Allianz I have to pay €100 excess on his total bill for the year incl. meds, scans, x-ray, consults, etc. Also as he over 8 years old he is considered senior I have to pay an extra 35%.

The vet who did the scan said Darby might be able to come off the heart meds. The local vet also suggested this but I insisted I wanted him to stay on it.

Also I think you can get certain heart meds online in the UK with a script from the vet which might work out cheaper.

For joint care, I use Yumove which I get a big container from Amazon for £30 which lasts 5 months.

Also I get 'collagen type II' for joint care from iherb.com - this place is great for supplements at a good price. iherb have other dog supplements aswell.

Hopefully you might not need to put your dog on meds or if so, only for a short while.

Eyespy · 16-05-2013 08:16PM

Hi ncmc,

I have a ten year old springer with a grade 4 heart murmur and arthritis as well. Luke was diagnosed with the heart murmur at 4 years old but it's quite likely that he has had one forever. From what I've read the grade 4 is moderately bad but really, it hasn't affected Luke in the past but this year he started to slow down. The running around like a dervish calmed bigtime and I quite honestly was worried as I thought that his murmur had gotten worse. As it happened he had mild arthritis and after 4 shots he's 70% better. Whether old age, ware and tear on the joints or just his heart in general, he's not quite as active but has bagged 2 rabbits in the last week so he's definitely on his B game if not managing the A at the moment.

It's very troubling when your animal is diagnosed, Luke was in for a general check-up before being groomed and I only found out when the clinic rang me to pick him up afterwards. I cried like the rain:) and assumed the the heart murmur meant that Luke wasn't going to be groomed the following year. And yet, here he is 6 years on. He started meds for the heart murmur in Feb of this year and is on two tablets a day. Luke isn't insured (age) so the meds are expensive but thankfully I'm able to afford both dogs meds. He's since been in for 2 check-ups and is due his third soon but the vets are very happy with his heart and his fermoral pulse is really good so the meds are working.

Don't worry too much, it's nothing that you've done by all accounts your cocker has been looked after very well. All I can tell you is take him on shorter walks but truthfully, your doggie will be the first to let you know if he's not up to it and don't let him overheat if we get any kind of good weather at all. Luke gets shattered after a good few minutes in the sun and melts into a big puddle of terminator 2 like uselessness. Aside from that though, all I can say is don't worry too much. Keep up the vetinary check-ups and watch your dog for any changes in behaviour but don't drive yourself too mad. Enjoy your time with him, he's still only a pup by my two anyway. And the very best of luck

BTW this is Luke, prone to a bit of fat but still in reasonably fine fettle

paultf · 16-05-2013 08:50PM

Just an update on my guy. My local vet got an update from the vet who did the scan. They think Darby's heart is in OK shape and want him to come off the heart meds and see how he gets on. Partly because they think that the heart med might have an impact on his lungs - they are not totally sure on this one as it may be old age. Also I have also started on an anti-inflamatory/pain killer for the hind legs.

If everything works out with the change in meds, the plan is to get another x-ray of the lungs and hips/legs in 8 weeks.

I suppose at this stage it is all about monitoring of your dog's condition.

ncmc · 16-05-2013 09:01PM

What a great post eyesore, I was laughing at Luke catching two rabbits, Libby couldn't catch too rabbits if they accidentally fell into her mouth! He's a handsome boy, glad the meds are working for him.

Paul, glad to hear Darby is doing well. They must be pretty pleased with his progress if they're taking him off the meds.

Libby has been making a total liar out of the vet! She's been running around like a total crazed puppy for some reason and nary a limp in sight! So I'm hoping its been caught early and not too serious yet. It seems to get worse when she's tired. She was staying with my inlaws when we were away last week and she would have been going on daily long cross country walks. So hopefully cutting her walks down will help.

boomerang · 16-05-2013 11:33PM

My go-to website on all things dog! Great advice here OP and it is from a trusted author.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritis.html

My own dog has arthritis and we treat it with a combination of glucosamine/chondroitin/manganese supplement, fish oil (NOT cod liver oil) and vitamin E (required when giving fish oil). I am also religious about keeping her at target weight, or even slightly below it.

Examples of glucosamine supplements for dogs include Arthri-Aid, Stride, Seraquin and Cosequin. You could instead use a human-grade glucosamine supplement if you know the required dosage. But the human-grade glucosamine supplements aren't any cheaper than the ones marketed for dogs.

Not everyone is convinced of the benefit of giving these supplements, but all I can tell you is that if I take my dog off Arthri-Aid, she invariably goes lame. And these are safe supplements to give. They take a few weeks before you see full effect.

You do need to be very careful with dosages so take note of the advice given by Mary Strauss in the article. Cider vinegar is also suggested as possibly alleviating arthritis. Not sure if this is the case, but it sure does wonders for the coat! A teaspoon a day over food is sufficient.

If your vet recommends giving the anti-inflammatory medicine on an ongoing basis, talk to him or her about the side-effects. Our own vet gives a antacid with Metacam. Bear in mind too there are some contra-indications. Talk to your vet.

anniehoo · 17-05-2013 12:34AM

boomerang wrote: »

, fish oil (NOT cod liver oil)

I'm curious on this bit. Can you elaborate?

boomerang · 17-05-2013 12:42AM

Simply because of the risk of hypervitaminosis due to over-supplementation.

anniehoo · 17-05-2013 01:09AM

boomerang wrote: »

Simply because of the risk of hypervitaminosis due to over-supplementation.

Can you explain a bit more? I presume it's Vitamin A, but why?

JustAThought · 17-05-2013 05:35AM

OP

Sorry yo hear about your pet.Laughing hysterically about the vet trip! Mine does this sometimes & makes a liar of me -I now take a video when I can do the trip isn't totally wasted !!

+1 for putting pressure on your insurance company to make sure that you claim for everything -it is insurance & their objective on not laying out/keeping " costs" down shouldn't stop your pet getting what you have paid out insurance for .

I'm with Allianz. My insurance is invalid if my pets shots arn't up to date. It's there on page 52 or so of the little print.

Dr. Nooooo! · 17-05-2013 11:42AM

My 12 yo golden retriever has arthritis in her hips and she started limping, took her to the vet and the medicine we got is fantastic, I can't remember the name but it comes it a bottle and you put it into a kind of syringe and squirt it into the dogs mouth every morning. The change has been amazing, it's like she is a much younger dog, much more energetic you wouldn't know she had arthritis. Can junp on chairs and run up stairs no bother. Been on it well over a year now. So rest assured medicine to kill pain a loosen joints can be very effective.

One thing is to reduce the walking mine gets an hour maximum, could go longer but I don't want to push it.

ncmc · 17-05-2013 11:59AM

That's a great link Boomerang, thanks so much. I will definitely be talking to the vet about suplements. I have been giving her cod liver oil :eek: didn't realise it wasn't recommended. I will pick up a salmon oil instead, I know my pet shop do it. Keeping the dogs weight down seems to be popping up again and again, Libby would be ever so slightly heavier than she should be, so I will start addressing that. She is currently on James Wellbeloved food, should I just change her to the diet version?

ncmc · 22-05-2013 12:53PM

Just an update on Libby, I brought her in to the animal hospital for a full battery of tests today, X-ray, bloods and ECG. She does have a heart murmur, though at this stage he would not think it’s serious and would be advising us to get her checked out twice a year, but no medication needed at the moment. With regards to the limp, he can’t explain it at all. He says her hip doesn’t sit exactly where it should, but it’s nothing that should be causing her enough pain to limp. He couldn’t find any evidence of soft tissue damage either. He would recommend again that we monitor it and he feels a glucosamine supplement would be helpful for her and also to watch her weight, but no other intervention is required at the moment.

He recommends Hills Prescription food, he says there is one that contains glucosamine to avoid giving her a supplement. I know vets sometimes push food that they sell themselves. I currently feed her James Wellbeloved which I find great. Is the Hills Prescription dry food very expensive? Would it work out a lot dearer that James Wellbeloved (€13 for 2kg) plus a glucosamine supplement? I don’t want to pay over the odds if it isn’t worth it, anyone any experience of Hills Prescription food?

ISDW · 22-05-2013 01:39PM

I can't comment on the hills prescription food, as I've never used it, but James Wellbeloved is an excellent food, so if it was me, I'd stick with that, and a glucosamine supplement, but make sure that you tell the vet that is what you are going to do. Possibly salmon oil on the food as well to help?

paultf · 22-05-2013 01:47PM

ncmc wrote: »

He recommends Hills Prescription food, he says there is one that contains glucosamine to avoid giving her a supplement. I know vets sometimes push food that they sell themselves. I currently feed her James Wellbeloved which I find great. Is the Hills Prescription dry food very expensive? Would it work out a lot dearer that James Wellbeloved (€13 for 2kg) plus a glucosamine supplement? I don’t want to pay over the odds if it isn’t worth it, anyone any experience of Hills Prescription food?

I don't know much about Hills other than, with Royal Canin, they are the ones vets sell.

Some foods have glucosamine (or even omega) added but at maintenance level. I don't think the levels added are sufficent for a dog that needs proper joint care. (Barking Heads have a 'Golden Years' dog food with more joint care stuff than others.)

I use Yumove - a joint care supplement - which has glucosamine and green lipped mussel - the latter being the best ingredient for joint care IMO. I get a large container on Amazon which lasts a long time and is not too expensive. With this you could probably stick with JWB. (Adding some fish oil or a tin of sardines (now & again) would also help for omega-3.)

ncmc · 22-05-2013 01:52PM

Thanks for the quick replies, I have been doing a bit of searching on this forum and a few posts have mentioned that Hills isn't that great and that a lot of vets push it because they make such a healthy profit. She's quite fussy about her food, so i'll stick with the JWB and maybe move to the light version. She isn't really overweight, just at the top end of where she should be.

Paul, I will buy Yumove from Amazon. It's very affordable. Do you use the tablets and is it just one a day?

paultf · 22-05-2013 03:53PM

ncmc wrote: »

Paul, I will buy Yumove from Amazon. It's very affordable. Do you use the tablets and is it just one a day?

I have been using Yumove for the last year - even since the vet diagnosed Darby with the heart murmur.

The feeding guidleines from the makers www.lintbells.co.uk is 1 tablet for less than 15kg. Darby weighs around 12-13kg but on the advice from the co-founder of lintbells I have been giving two each morning:-

"If I may, if you are looking to improve your dog’s mobility further, you do have room to give a little more Yumove. For his weight, you could give him an additional tablet per day for a few weeks to assess whether his mobility improves. The key reason for doing this would be to provide higher levels of the specific green lipped mussel provided in Yumove. This is a natural anti-inflammatory and will do more for your dog’s mobility than any of the other ingredients we’ve talked about thus far. We go to great lengths to source absolutely the best GLM for Yumove because it has the biggest effect on joint health, so I would certainly recommend giving your dog an extra tablet for a few weeks to assess effect."

Even at 2 tablets a day the container still lasts 5 months.

Also one of the handy things with Yumove is that my fella takes them as a treat each morning and chews them - I don't have to force him to take them.

If you have the time, iHerb have a huge selection of joint care tablets. Amazon and Zooplus offer alternatives too. I checked alot of them and I concuded that Yumove offered the best solution with the green lipped mussel. A few people on here told me about Yumove before.

aonb · 22-05-2013 04:01PM

boomerang wrote: »

My go-to website on all things dog! Great advice here OP and it is from a trusted author.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritis.html

My own dog has arthritis and we treat it with a combination of glucosamine/chondroitin/manganese supplement, fish oil (NOT cod liver oil) and vitamin E (required when giving fish oil). I am also religious about keeping her at target weight, or even slightly below it.

Examples of glucosamine supplements for dogs include Arthri-Aid, Stride, Seraquin and Cosequin. You could instead use a human-grade glucosamine supplement if you know the required dosage. But the human-grade glucosamine supplements aren't any cheaper than the ones marketed for dogs.

Not everyone is convinced of the benefit of giving these supplements, but all I can tell you is that if I take my dog off Arthri-Aid, she invariably goes lame. And these are safe supplements to give. They take a few weeks before you see full effect.

You do need to be very careful with dosages so take note of the advice given by Mary Strauss in the article. Cider vinegar is also suggested as possibly alleviating arthritis. Not sure if this is the case, but it sure does wonders for the coat! A teaspoon a day over food is sufficient.

If your vet recommends giving the anti-inflammatory medicine on an ongoing basis, talk to him or her about the side-effects. Our own vet gives a antacid with Metacam. Bear in mind too there are some contra-indications. Talk to your vet.

I give both horse and elderly dog Arthri-aid. The dog has arthritis in shoulder, the horse is being given it just to aid joints. I definately think it makes a difference to the dog.

I know someone who takes the Arthri-aid herself - its just glucosamine/chrondroitin afterall :rolleyes:

JustAThought · 22-05-2013 07:00PM

James WellBeloved is a royal
canine Product!

paultf · 22-05-2013 08:38PM

JustAThought wrote: »

James WellBeloved is a royal
canine Product!

I didn't know that.

But with RC, I thought vets got commission on any sale? Also RC have products specifically for a dog size or breed. Not sure how that works.

With JWB the food/ingredients seem regular enough - the cereal free ones look good. At least the price doesn't include any commission.

ISDW · 22-05-2013 09:00PM

JustAThought wrote: »

James WellBeloved is a royal
canine Product!

No, James Wellbeloved and RC are owned by the same company, but they have different factories.

Unlike Red Mills and Gain, which are made in the same factory

Denis322 · 22-05-2013 09:12PM

My 14 year old Labrador was diagnosed with a heart murmur probably 2 or 3 years ago, and also fluid in her lungs. She's on Vetmedin, Furosemide, and was recently put on half a Previcox tablet for the arthritis. She's still going grand though, slower than she used to be but still well able to run around

Tablets are expensive though, I think it was something like €120 for this months supply of them :O

boomerang · 22-05-2013 11:18PM

When feeding the sardines, go for sardines in brine, or sardines in tomato sauce. Not the sardines in vegetable oil. You can rinse them off if you're concerned about the salt content in the brine, or the sugar in the tomato sauce. The goodness is in the sardine itself.

Vegetable oil contains Omega-6 fatty acids, which have an inflammatory effect - the reverse of what you're looking for. Only learned that myself recently.

JustAThought · 24-05-2013 09:16PM

boomerang wrote: »

When feeding the sardines, go for sardines in brine, or sardines in tomato sauce. Not the sardines in vegetable oil. You can rinse them off if you're concerned about the salt content in the brine, or the sugar in the tomato sauce. The goodness is in the sardine itself.

Vegetable oil contains Omega-6 fatty acids, which have an inflammatory effect - the reverse of what you're looking for. Only learned that myself recently.

My dog LOVES oil. (Nothing wrong with her thou except General madness) . Should She not be having the occasional slosh of it so?

Dog has just been diagnosed with heart murmur and arthritis

Comments