Kevin McLaughlin's big chance??

boschmaster · 14-05-2013 5:13pm #1

I rate Kevin a lot and think he's a fantastic player. More importantly, Schmidt has always spoken of how important Kev has been to Leinster's success and also thinks he's a standout player. With Deccie gone, does anyone think that Kev will get much of a look in with Schmidt now in charge? If we have a fully fit backrow, I'd say they would be ranked as follows:
Ferris, SOB, Jamie, Henry, POM, TOD, Kevin McLaughlin, Dominic Ryan and so on. I think he deserves a shot but I can't see it happening. Also, with a fully fit backrow, would you start a Ferris, SOB, Jamie combination or a Ferris, TOD, SOB combination???

Hagz · 14-05-2013 5:22pm

I wouldn't rule out McLaughlin getting ahead of O'Mahony now that Schmidt is coach. Although, I would think it unlikely. In my opinion, McLaughlin performed well down in New Zealand. He certainly showed that he can translate his form from club level to international level.

But when everyone's fit, McLaughlin isn't the player you want on the bench. You're more likely to see one of POM or Henry. Which is why I think it's unlikely he'll break into the squad.

Hagz · 14-05-2013 5:24pm

Also, I'd pick a Ferris/SOB/Heaslip combination no question.

Ruck Inspector · 14-05-2013 5:27pm

He is barely holding off Ruddock at Leinster, He is a solid player at HEC level but don't see him being any better than that at international level.

Henderson at 6 for me.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2013 5:30pm

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

He is barely holding off Ruddock at Leinster

Really? I don't see any evidence of that - he is still clearly part of the number 1 choice backrow at Leinster.

I'd be surprised if he ever collected more than a handful of caps though.

Ruck Inspector · 14-05-2013 5:33pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Really? I don't see any evidence of that - he is still clearly part of the number 1 choice backrow at Leinster.

I'd be surprised if he ever collected more than a handful of caps though.

plenty of evidence on it on the field, little to no drop off.

Kayless · 14-05-2013 5:35pm

A Ferris, TOD, SOB combination would be unreal in terms of pure strength but I'm not sure how balanced a back row that would be. The problem ( and its a good one) for Ireland is that like the wing we have so many good players most of whom deserve a chance. I think Joe will chop and change for every match must like he's done with Leinster and depending on the team we are facing so for that reason I think guys like TOD and McLaughlin will get a chance. I could see Joe having a back row of POM-Henry-SOB against say Scotland and something like SOB-Henry-Heaslip against England again it just depends and this is what I like about Joe and out prospects under him, we could end up having some of our better players well rested for the big must win games while still giving the younger deserving guys a shot.

Fireball07 · 14-05-2013 5:37pm

Think he was better last season tbh.

Good player, work rate is excellent but Ferris when fit is obviously ahead of him. Of course, Ferris isn't often fit, sadly. But POM is an excellent player and Henderson could be seen ahead of him now too.

Kayless · 14-05-2013 5:44pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Think he was better last season tbh.

Good player, work rate is excellent but Ferris when fit is obviously ahead of him. Of course, Ferris isn't often fit, sadly. But POM is an excellent player and Henderson could be seen ahead of him now too.

I would love to how this would work out

Henderson
POC
SOB
Henry (TOD)
Heaslip

irishbucsfan · 14-05-2013 5:47pm

Locky is great. I think Ruddock could push him in the near future. And I think Joe will need a player like them or Henderson in his back row if he wants to translate the way Leinster play to international level.

Tox56 · 14-05-2013 5:47pm

Kayless wrote: »

I would love to how this would work out

Henderson
POC
SOB
Henry (TOD)
Heaslip

I'd go a step further:

Henderson
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

That could be one of the best back 5s in the world.

Conas · 14-05-2013 5:50pm

He made a great break through in the 2009/2010 season if I remember correctly, and hence he got his first cap against Italy in the 2010 Six Nations. He was very quiet in that match, and when Ferris was fit he got dropped completely.

I think he's great in the lineout, and in defence, but his ball carrying wouldn't be of the same level as an O'Brien or Ferris. I'd personally like to see him in the second row a bit more, but I don't think that'll ever happen, not with Ireland anyway. If he was two or three inches taller, he would be one hell of a second rower.

trouttrout · 14-05-2013 5:52pm

Locky is great. One of my favorite players. So underrated but I'm still not sure if he would be as effective at international level

Deserves the chance to show us though

boschmaster · 14-05-2013 5:52pm

I'm a big fan of the traditional opensides, out and out groundhogs. Atm, TOD is our only genuine 7 with a serious amount of gametime this season. I think Dominic Ryan is our 7 who has the most potential to become world class. Leinster need to invest a lot more gametime into him but he is injury prone. If he gets a regular amount of games for leinster next season I could see him making the June tour squad and then breaking into the Six nations squad in 2015. Schmidt AnD gibbes told him he's played very well this season so it's up to MOC to pick him for next season. Jordi Murphy is a serious talent is could be a future iris player. Schmidt better give TOD a go and most importantly Kev

errlloyd · 14-05-2013 5:59pm

Thought the Glasgow game was the best performance of him in the loose I've seen in a while. Tbh I always thought his ability to make yards was pretty limited, but he had a decent amount of gainline successes.

Mahatma Geansai · 14-05-2013 6:16pm

He's a good club player, but he should be behind better options for Ireland. Joe selecting him ahead of better players would be similar to any of the contentious selections Kidney made.

Ruck Inspector · 14-05-2013 6:17pm

ah so you've begun

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-05-2013 6:28pm

Good player, would be able to do a job at 6 and not let the team down.

I'd have him level with POM and just ahead of Henderson purely based on their abilities as a 6. POM however is slightly more valuable in a squad because he can play across the backrow while Henderson can play in the second row.

Hagz · 14-05-2013 6:32pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

He's a good club player, but he should be behind better options for Ireland. Joe selecting him ahead of better players would be similar to any of the contentious selections Kidney made.

Not sure I agree. He's definitely behind Ferris, but he can compete with the rest of the competition.

When you look at what O'Mahony brings to Ireland, the first thing that comes to mind is his line-out work. You look outside of that, things like defence, carrying ability, link play (bear in mind that I'm talking about his Irish performances), he's been solid, he hasn't been a stand out. He has been as impressive as McLaughlin was down under.

You look at what McLaughlin does for Leinster, and it's all about defensive commitment, intelligent carrying, good link play and good line-out work. Now I'm not saying that he's a better option that O'Mahony, but I don't think there's as much of a gap as people may think.

Bogota · 14-05-2013 7:31pm

I would say McLoughlin is better than POM. He has everything POM has and has a much higher work rate. POM is much younger though and has more potential. Henderson is better than both IMO.

trouttrout · 14-05-2013 7:36pm

Bogota wrote: »

I would say McLoughlin is better than POM. He has everything POM has and has a much higher work rate. POM is much younger though and has more potential. Henderson is better than both IMO.

That's not true. POM is a much better lineout operator and better on the deck

very different players though

Podge_irl · 14-05-2013 7:39pm

Much better lineout operator? I wouldn't agree with that at all.

POM ultimately has a level of physicality that McLaughlin will never have though.

Buer · 14-05-2013 7:39pm

trouttrout wrote: »

That's not true. POM is a much better lineout operator and better on the deck

Deck, most definitely, line out, not at all. McLaughlin is very much a line out specialist flanker also and has been the thorn in the side of plenty of sides.

trouttrout · 14-05-2013 7:40pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Much better lineout operator? I wouldn't agree with that at all.

POM ultimately has a level of physicality that McLaughlin will never have though.

Sorry ya that's probably exaggerated, I would say he's much better on the deck though

Bogota · 14-05-2013 7:45pm

McLoughlin infinitely better in the lineout, probably the best of any backrower. You may have a point on the deck but overall McLaughlin is the stronger player in my opinion. POM is younger though.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-05-2013 7:47pm

trouttrout wrote: »

That's not true. POM is a much better lineout operator and better on the deck

very different players though

I'd agree that POM is a bit better deck but POM and McLaughlin are (along with Henderson) our best lineout options in the backrow. I wouldn't put much between them although I think McLaughlin is the better jumper on oposition ball.

One thing though is that I would rarely put POC and McLaughlin in the same pack. When carrying they are very similar they truck into contact and recycle the ball quickly. If you have too many players looking to do that you aren't going to get anywhere.

Its very much horses for courses depending on who is available in the rest of the pack and which boxes need to be ticked.

Bogota · 14-05-2013 7:48pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Much better lineout operator? I wouldn't agree with that at all.

POM ultimately has a level of physicality that McLaughlin will never have though.

McLaughlin is IMO one of the most physical of all the backrowers. He is much more physical than POM!

This all depends on your definition of physicality? POM is more likely to get into off the ball stuff and play an enforcer type role whereas McLaughlin is more likely to be clearing out rucks, trucking up untidy ball and making more tackles which is what I take to mean physicality.

Hagz · 14-05-2013 7:48pm

I wouldn't say he's infinitely better in the line-out. I would say on par. O'Mahony was a very useful line-out option in the Autumn and has shown himself to be very good there in recent times for Munster. McLaughlin of course has been a brilliant line-out operator for Leinster for a long time now, but I don't think he's that far ahead of POM in that area.

trouttrout · 14-05-2013 7:49pm

Bogota wrote: »

McLoughlin infinitely better in the lineout, probably the best of any backrower. You may have a point on the deck but overall McLaughlin is the stronger player in my opinion. POM is younger though.

Infinitely no less! I was exaggerating saying POM was a good bit better but Locky is in no way that much better in the lineout

POM is a top quality lineout operator for a backrow forward. His last two performances for Munster are a testament to that. Not to mention he was very secure during the six nations when we had a malfunctioning lineout

Hagz · 14-05-2013 7:51pm

Bogota wrote: »

McLaughlin is IMO the most physical of all the backrowers. He is much more physical than POM!

This all depends on your definition of physicality? POM is more likely to get into off the ball stuff and play an enforcer type role whereas McLaughlin is more likely to be clearing out rucks, trucking up untidy ball and making more tackles which is what I take to mean physicality.

I'd say he's talking about ball carrying. McLaughlin is so good at turning static ball into go forward ball, but that's down to the angle of his runs and his footwork, rather than his physicality. O'Mahony is much more likely to make a line-break.

Bogota · 14-05-2013 7:51pm

I would, McLaughlin is on par with a lot of second rows. He is much, much more disruptive on opposition ball than POM and his consistency and timing unmatched by any other backrow.

trouttrout · 14-05-2013 7:52pm

Locky's ball carrying is very underrated. He's used in tight for Leinster but when on form he always eeks over the gainline

Larbre34 · 14-05-2013 7:52pm

McLaughlin is a cannier player than Henderson right at this moment, he is more versatile experienced and perceptive. Henderson is showing more potential at his current age than McLaughlin did as he was a slower burner.

Ignoring all national positions except 6 McLaughlin has to be third in line. The feast of talent in the backrow is unfortunate on guys like McLaughlin, O'Donnell Dom Ryan etc but the summer touring schedule should profile a lot of them

Bogota · 14-05-2013 7:53pm

Hagz wrote: »

I'd say he's talking about ball carrying. McLaughlin is so good at turning static ball into go forward ball, but that's down to the angle of his runs and his footwork, rather than his physicality. O'Mahony is much more likely to make a line-break.

Ah gotcha. POM is definitely more likely to make a line break of the two. Not really McLaughlins game.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2013 7:53pm

Bogota wrote: »

McLaughlin is IMO one of the most physical of all the backrowers. He is much more physical than POM!

This all depends on your definition of physicality? POM is more likely to get into off the ball stuff and play an enforcer type role whereas McLaughlin is more likely to be clearing out rucks, trucking up untidy ball and making more tackles which is what I take to mean physicality.

Physicality is one of those ambiguous words in this context - I just think POM is bigger and stronger and can have a bit more impact in that way.

PhatPiggins · 14-05-2013 8:03pm

Did this deserve a thread of its own?

Only way Locky gets more caps is if 4 of the 7 backrowers legitimately ahead of him get injured.

sweetthing · 14-05-2013 8:07pm

This is one of the most exciting things about a new coach...wondering where the current players will fit into the mix, and wondering what players on the fringes might get their chance.

I'd go a step further:

Henderson
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

That could be one of the best back 5s in the world.

I wouldn't count on relying on POC much longer internationally due to his constant stream of
injuries. I think he could last a couple more years if he concentrates only on Munster, so I hope he does
so.

Looking towards the next world cup (which we should be), I would like to see Tuohy being given a real go in the second row, as I think he was harshly treated under Kidney, partnering Ryan/McCarthy, whoever is in better form (a novel idea in the Irish set up over the last decade)

I dearly hope Henderson's future lies in the backrow, as I think his pace would be wasted in the second row. Also, such a like for like replacement for Ferris (who really does seem to be prematurely crocked, a la Elsom) couldn't have been written better. So I think he would fit really well allongside Heaslip and the tractor.

sweetthing · 14-05-2013 8:08pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Did this deserve a thread of its own?

Only way Locky gets more caps is if 4 of the 7 backrowers legitimately ahead of him get injured.

Watch out, lads, it's the thread police!

Everyone, SCATTER!!

.ak · 14-05-2013 8:10pm

trouttrout wrote: »

Locky is great. One of my favorite players. So underrated but I'm still not sure if he would be as effective at international level

Deserves the chance to show us though

He got that chance, in NZ, and he did impress and was effective in fairness.

padser · 14-05-2013 8:31pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Did this deserve a thread of its own?

Only way Locky gets more caps is if 4 of the 7 backrowers legitimately ahead of him get injured.

That's pretty unreasonable. There are three backrowers unquestionably ahead of him (SOB, Ferris, Heaslip) and those guys are a notch above anything else we have (one is a nominee for world player of the yr, one won Erc player of the year and the other is the best player of the three of them!!!).

After that Locky is definitely in the next group (POM, TOD, Jennings, Henderson, Henry) and that group are similar in overall ability. It's arguable that any one of them is the "next best" and given there are 6 people in that group (and that Ferris is mostly injured) any one of them could have a solid hope of being in the matchday squad.

It's absolutely reasonably to say "I'd pick x over Locky" but to suggest he doesn't have a legitimate claim to be in the top 7 backrowers in the country is, frankly, laughable.

Personally I would pick Henderson and POM ahead of him at 6 in that order, primarily because they are younger and therefore I think hold more potential.

jamiedav2011 · 14-05-2013 8:32pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Did this deserve a thread of its own?

Only way Locky gets more caps is if 4 of the 7 backrowers legitimately ahead of him get injured.

Quality input, why bother at all with a post like that?!

At least give us the names of these 7 BRs that are so legitimately ahead of him, because I presume they all play 6 do they?

I am pie · 14-05-2013 8:37pm

I´m biased, but I think he'll be pushed aside by Henderson eventually. So much raw potential, some of his carries this year for Ulster have been sensational.

dub_skav · 15-05-2013 7:31am

He's a great player, but unfortunately for him suffers from being the prototypical unselfish work horse.
He takes up the hard yard 2nd row type carries, makes lots of massive hits in defence, is often the next man in to rucks on attack and defence. But, he doesn't carry out wide, or have bags of pace, or make try saving tackles out wide, so he gets ignored a bit.

Add to that the fact that there is healthy rotation / competition in the Leinster backrow with 2 nailed on Irish starters in the mix and he will understandably suffer in comparison to POM and TOD etc who have more time to shine

Great headache to have though with established starters who always play well, young guns showing they are not lost at any level, plus a strong tier of players in between of which he is one.

razorblunt · 15-05-2013 8:01am

Strikes me as a player that would reap benefits from 2/3 years in France.

canine · 15-05-2013 8:08am

Anyone who knows anything about rugby knows that Ferris will never play in an Irish or Ulster shirt again

andrewdcs · 15-05-2013 8:17am

canine wrote: »

Anyone who knows anything about rugby knows that Ferris will never play in an Irish or Ulster shirt again

never say never. he is 28, not 32.

thomond2006 · 15-05-2013 8:52am

canine wrote: »

Anyone who knows anything about rugby knows that Ferris will never play in an Irish or Ulster shirt again

*bookmarked*

shuffol · 15-05-2013 9:32am

Schmidt is a horses for courses type of guy so with that in mind it's possible we could see a greater involvement for McLaughlin depending on the game. I expect Henderson to make the 6 jersey his own in the next year though, if he isnt moved into the row.

trouttrout · 15-05-2013 10:18am

Henderson is brilliant but still very raw, Diack has kept him out of the Ulster side at 6

shuffol · 15-05-2013 10:24am

trouttrout wrote: »

Henderson is brilliant but still very raw, Diack has kept him out of the Ulster side at 6

That was only one game, and I'd say it was a mixture of resting Henderson and rewarding Diack for his great form. Henderson offering a greater impact off the bench would've been a factor too. He may be raw but his error count is still quite low and he regularly makes some massive plays.

15-05-2013 10:26am

I'm a big fan of Locky, but even in a horses for courses selection setup, what does he offer us above other options?

Ferris is a monster. Starts at 6 if fit.
POM is a good ball player, and a good lineout operator.
Henderson is going to be Ferris' taller brother. Destructive player and lineout specialist.

McLaughlin is so good at the dog work, but is that ever going to be enough to put him ahead of any of these guys?

Also consider that Henry was tearing up trees at openside for Ulster this season, and O'Donnell's been doing really well at Munster too. We could easily see us deploy a left/right side flanker approach a lá les Francos with O'Brien back at 6 and either of those two wearing 7.

Kevin McLaughlin's big chance??

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