Do you get annoyed when people say 'Eire'?

Richard · 12-05-2013 10:27AM

The other names are used to distinguish between the state and the island. That's why the name "Republic of Ireland" is used in UK law. If the government based in Dublin had chosen another name for the part of Ireland which they govern, then the issue wouldn't have arisen.

An Coilean · 12-05-2013 11:55AM

kneemos wrote: »

Always thought Eire meant the republic.

Nope, 'eire' actually means burden, 'Éire' on the other hand means Ireland.

Fadas are important

The difference between 'caca milis' and 'cáca milis' is the difirence between sweet cake and sweet shít.

sesswhat · 12-05-2013 12:07PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Nope, 'eire' actually means burden, 'Éire' on the other hand means Ireland.

Fadas are important

The difference between 'caca milis' and 'cáca milis' is the difirence between sweet cake and sweet shít.

Fs are important too

Richard · 13-05-2013 12:44AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

The difference there is that there isn't an island called Sudan containing two states, one of which is called Sudan.

mathepac · 13-05-2013 03:01AM

Richard wrote: »

... If the government based in Dublin had chosen another name for the part of Ireland which they govern, then the issue wouldn't have arisen.

If Lloyd George & Co hadn't imposed partition on us as their parting shot we wouldn't have the problem either.

BTW, it's news to me that one state can arbitrarily decide what to call another. We have the name of our state enshrined in our written constitution; it's unchangeable unless we the people vote for constitutional change.

Richard · 13-05-2013 03:20AM

mathepac wrote: »

If Lloyd George & Co hadn't imposed partition on us as their parting shot we wouldn't have the problem either.

It wasn't a parting shot, it was designed (however imperfectly) to address the varying allegiances within Ireland.

BTW, it's news to me that one state can arbitrarily decide what to call another. We have the name of our state enshrined in our written constitution; it's unchangeable unless we the people vote for constitutional change.

It happens all the time. Consider "Cote D'Ivoire" or Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic Of).

As for whether the name is "Republic of Ireland" or not, it isn't exactly clear in the constitution.

An analogous situation would be if Northern Ireland has been renamed "Ulster" as was proposed in 1949 iirc.

The_Hustler · 13-05-2013 04:54AM

It's probably been said but Southern Ireland is the description that annoys me. It suggests the island is split 50/50. There are 26 counties in a lot of different compass directions

mathepac · 13-05-2013 07:21AM

Richard wrote: »

It wasn't a parting shot, it was designed (however imperfectly) to address the varying allegiances within Ireland...

Not at all. He wanted to retain the northern ports and ship-building capability for HM Gov.

Richard wrote: »

... As for whether the name is "Republic of Ireland" or not, it isn't exactly clear in the constitution...

It's crystal clear. Article 4 is unequivocal. "The name of the State is Eire, or, in the English language, Ireland" That is all Article 4 has to say.

I read it out to Shep, who is not the cleverest of gold-fish, but he nodded in agreement as to clarity, unequivocation and simplicity.

Check here for yourself if you need to. Shep trusts me.

ted1 · 13-05-2013 07:27AM

The_Hustler wrote: »

It's probably been said but Southern Ireland is the description that annoys me. It suggests the island is split 50/50. There are 26 counties in a lot of different compass directions

I always what happens the eastern and western counties and then there is poor Donegal and Leitrim in the north

Solair · 13-05-2013 11:50AM

I remember I got a package which had been sent from an American publisher who had gotten my address from a British retailer.

Mr ..... .......
.... ...... .....
Dawbin
Aero
United Kingdom

Thankfully it was tracked down and got to me when the courier in England who was trying to figure it out called my phone number to figure out what the address was supposed to be.

Just shows how things can get lost in translation in the same language sometimes.

Richard · 13-05-2013 12:40PM

mathepac wrote: »

Not at all. He wanted to retain the northern ports and ship-building capability for HM Gov.
It's crystal clear.

If it was just the ports they would have retained those as elsewhere. A million Unionists was a more pressing concern.

Article 4 is unequivocal. "The name of the State is Eire, or, in the English language, Ireland" That is all Article 4 has to say.

Exactly. "The name of the state is Eire". It doesn't say it's "Eire" in Irish. It does make it clear that "Ireland" is English for "Eire". At least that's one interpretation. Hence, it's open to interpretation.

I suspect the lack of clarity is deliberate, given that the government desired a united Ireland.

I read it out to Shep, who is not the cleverest of gold-fish, but he nodded in agreement as to clarity, unequivocation and simplicity.

If you're talking constitutional politics to your goldfish it says more about you than me.

mathepac · 13-05-2013 12:57PM

Richard wrote: »

... Exactly. "The name of the state is Eire". It doesn't say it's "Eire" in Irish. It does make it clear that "Ireland" is English for "Eire". ,,.

But the official first language of the State is Gaeilge (Irish) which trumps the English translation anyhow. I posted the English translation of Article 4 here in defference to those who might not have the "cupla focail". So the name of the State is Eire or Ireland in English. Shep is bilingual BTW.

Beefy78 · 13-05-2013 02:01PM

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I don't get annoyed but I think the people who do it are morons. I file them along with the pretentious idiots who brag about their weekend in "Paree".

It's not about being morons or being pretentious. I suspect that most usage of the name is a mis-placed attempt to not offend Irish people by people of a certain age (mid 30s to mid 40s).

For a time 'Eire'(sp) was often used as a name for the country of Ireland in the British media, especially the BBC. I certainly remember frequent use of that name during the 1990 World Cup and that's where I first heard it. At the time there were lots of stories about people over here being pissed off with the use of the name 'Republic of Ireland' (and I've read on threads on here stories of letters from Britain addressed to 'Republic of Ireland' not being delivered although this may have been a couple of decades earlier) so a name was wanted to differentiate between the North and the Republic.

I really doubt that it is intended to offend.

asdfg! · 13-05-2013 02:35PM

When I was a kid I proudly wrote Eire with or without a fada in my schoolbooks and when I sent away to England for something I gave my address as Eire.

Meanwhile it's all over the stamps, the passport and every official document issued by the government. But now I'm supposed to be offended if someone referred to this country as Eire and call them morons?

Who is the moron here?

Look lets get over it, we're the only people who give a damm about it. Really if we spent less time on BS like, looking to be offended by innocent Brits who are trying not to offend us most of the time by referring to this country by it's official name and spent more time sorting out the shambles that this country is in. We would be all better off. We're a nothing island off the west coast of Europe. Get some perspective for heaven's sake.

I get annoyed by people getting annoyed by this nonsense.

Jimoslimos · 13-05-2013 03:36PM

Not sure if it has been mentioned but another reason for the reticence on the part of the British for using the term "Ireland" was because of this country's constitutional claim to the 6 counties up north (since removed after the GFA). The use of "Ireland" to describe the republic could be seen as tacit acknowledgement of that claim.

dr gonzo · 13-05-2013 04:10PM

Only time I've heard it said to me was from an English fella. I'd normally have no problem with it (its our own word after all) but it jarred when this particular guy said it because I know he'd be extremely conservative and therefore I got the impression that he didnt say it to be quirky.

daheff · 13-05-2013 04:12PM

what annoys me more is the way people (Especially on sky news) say Iland instead of IRE-land

Damn it -we're and Island full of IRE....not just and I-land :mad:

LowKeyReturn · 13-05-2013 04:25PM

It moved into semi-common parlance in the UK because the UK did not recognise Ireland as the name for what was previously the Irish Free State. At least Èire is the name of the state in one language where as the Republic or Ireland is a football team. Similarly Southern Ireland also has, historically, negative connotations.

So long as people don't stand there referring to the UK as the mainland I can't say as it bothers me much personally.

You be suprised the amnount of Brits that don;t even know its a separate country so Èire is doing well! :pac:

Richard · 13-05-2013 04:43PM

daheff wrote: »

what annoys me more is the way people (Especially on sky news) say Iland instead of IRE-land

Damn it -we're and Island full of IRE....not just and I-land :mad:

But most English people's accents don't pronounce the r sound when it occurs at the end of a syllabul, so that is normal.

RossyG · 13-05-2013 04:56PM

nicholasn7322 wrote: »

I always taught the problem with British people using Eire is because they are using a language that they actively tried to destroy.

No living British person has tried any such thing.

When I was a kid in Britain - so late 70's/80's - it was quite common for the ROI to be referred to as Eire. It was done primarily to differentiate it from Northern Ireland. It wasn't condescending or insulting; it's what people thought the country was called by its own citizens.

The term seems to have largely died out now. You're more likely to hear just "Ireland", "Southern Ireland", "the Republic of Ireland" "the Irish Republic" or even "proper Ireland".

asdfg! · 13-05-2013 05:02PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Not sure if it has been mentioned but another reason for the reticence on the part of the British for using the term "Ireland" was because of this country's constitutional claim to the 6 counties up north (since removed after the GFA). The use of "Ireland" to describe the republic could be seen as tacit acknowledgement of that claim.

Rubbish, do you honestly think average English person know anything or cares less about the subject. Most I've met want rid of the North anyway. I've even met ex British soldiers who say they were sent to Ireland when they mean Northern Ireland. Eire doesn't come into it.

A friend of mine who is originally English but lived overseas for most of his life therefore missed all the nonsense asked me to explain why he came across so many normally reasonable Irish people who took offence at the slightest mispronunciation or failure to understand some obscure aspect of Irish history. My only explanation is that we Irish all think we know Irish history but most of us only know the headlines and slogans and we always think the English are trying to insult us even by speaking with an English accent.

It's an inferiority complex in my opinion.

iguana · 13-05-2013 05:03PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Éire is the official name of the state.

Not in the English language it isn't. Article 4 of our constitution states; The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. If you are speaking English, the correct name of the country is Ireland, calling it Éire is the same as saying Deutschland instead of Germany while speaking English. The reason our stamps say Éire is because the first language of the country is officially Irish.

I had this issue last year getting my son's birth cert as he was born in Wales. The registrar asked where I was born, I said Ireland, she asked if it was northern or southern, I said it's just Ireland. She said she needed to put in more than that as it's an official document. It took a while to convince her that Ireland is the legal name of the republic and that it was because I was well aware of the importance of his birth cert being correct that I wanted her to put it down as Ireland.

Fratton Fred · 13-05-2013 05:32PM

iguana wrote: »

Not in the English language it isn't. Article 4 of our constitution states; The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. If you are speaking English, the correct name of the country is Ireland, calling it Éire is the same as saying Deutschland instead of Germany while speaking English. The reason our stamps say Éire is because the first language of the country is officially Irish.

I had this issue last year getting my son's birth cert as he was born in Wales. The registrar asked where I was born, I said Ireland, she asked if it was northern or southern, I said it's just Ireland. She said she needed to put in more than that as it's an official document. It took a while to convince her that Ireland is the legal name of the republic and that it was because I was well aware of the importance of his birth cert being correct that I wanted her to put it down as Ireland.

Why would you not say the Republic of Ireland?

Jimoslimos · 13-05-2013 05:45PM

asdfg! wrote: »

Rubbish, do you honestly think average English person know anything or cares less about the subject. Most I've met want rid of the North anyway. I've even met ex British soldiers who say they were sent to Ireland when they mean Northern Ireland. Eire doesn't come into it.

The average Joe may care little about the political situation but their language will still reflect that in use by politicians and the media.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why would you not say the Republic of Ireland?

Because it was an official document and no such country called "Republic of Ireland" exists. There is an "Ireland" which happens to be a republic (descriptive term)

As a further aside the Good Friday Agreement was signed between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Ireland. Not the Government of the Irish republic, the Republic of Ireland or Éire.

Pumpkinseeds · 13-05-2013 05:56PM

No I don't get annoyed by the word Eire although I do loathe the name Erin.

ONeill2013 · 13-05-2013 06:10PM

RossyG wrote: »

No living British person has tried any such thing.

When I was a kid in Britain - so late 70's/80's - it was quite common for the ROI to be referred to as Eire. It was done primarily to differentiate it from Northern Ireland. It wasn't condescending or insulting; it's what people thought the country was called by its own citizens.

The term seems to have largely died out now. You're more likely to hear just "Ireland", "Southern Ireland", "the Republic of Ireland" "the Irish Republic" or even "proper Ireland".

I would love to have a history discussion with any fool who calls it 'proper ireland'

RossyG · 13-05-2013 06:31PM

ONeill2013 wrote: »

I would love to have a history discussion with any fool who calls it 'proper ireland'

You'd be wasting your breath. They really don't care.

mathepac · 13-05-2013 06:53PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why would you not say the Republic of Ireland?

Because that is the name of a football team.

sunshine and showers · 13-05-2013 07:59PM

asdfg! wrote: »

Rubbish, do you honestly think average English person know anything or cares less about the subject. Most I've met want rid of the North anyway. I've even met ex British soldiers who say they were sent to Ireland when they mean Northern Ireland. Eire doesn't come into it.

A friend of mine who is originally English but lived overseas for most of his life therefore missed all the nonsense asked me to explain why he came across so many normally reasonable Irish people who took offence at the slightest mispronunciation or failure to understand some obscure aspect of Irish history. My only explanation is that we Irish all think we know Irish history but most of us only know the headlines and slogans and we always think the English are trying to insult us even by speaking with an English accent.

It's an inferiority complex in my opinion.

No, that poster is right. It is actually a thing in the British media, which is where the habit comes from, I guess. They won't refer to the us 'Ireland' when reporting the news. It's always 'the Republic of Ireland' when talking about us because 'Ireland' implies the whole island including the North, apparently.

The J Stands for Jay · 13-05-2013 08:33PM

mike65 wrote: »

Its the other way round! Scottish notes are not technically legal tender currency (even in Scotland and Norn Iron) - rather they are promissory notes. Which means people who head south with them can find they are refused when offered.

There is no note that is legal tender in Scotland or Northern Ireland. Only pound coins are legal tender.

Do you get annoyed when people say 'Eire'?

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