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Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

  • 09-05-2013 03:12PM
    #1
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,782 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Some reminders and rules for this thread.

    Avoid inflammatory posts - on topic, constructive posts only.

    The following are not on topic:
    * The government, past or present
    * IMF / The Troika
    * The Banks
    * NAMA
    * Croke Park 2
    * Privatisation
    * Fares
    * The Free Travel Scheme

    Moderator
    Tagged:


«134567…24

Comments

  • #2
    omicron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭omicron


    The largest union at Bus Éireann, the National Bus and Rail Union, says an all-out strike will go ahead from Sunday.
    Out of 820 votes, 83% of members voted today to reject the Labour Court’s cost-cutting recommendations.
    €5m reductions in overtime and premium pay at the company had been recommended by the court.
    The NBRU represents over 1,100 of the company's 2,500 employees.
    Bus Éireann has said it will press ahead with a range of cost-cutting measures.

    Full story here.


    Serious disruption looking likely.


  • #3
    AdrianII
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭AdrianII


    will this effect buses going from the north to the south on sunday?


  • #4
    Alfred Borden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭Alfred Borden


    Ah exams next week!


  • #5
    mrsoundie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭mrsoundie


    I have to go to work Sunday morning. Do it Monday.


  • #6
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    If this goes ahead its only a matter of time before the rail workers join their colleagues on the buses in solidarity.

    I can hears the tills ringing in the City Link booking offices already.


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  • #7
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Sack them all. Fold BE. Tender a private operator to replace them ala the RPA/Luas and interview new drivers/drivers who will accept a sustainable wage and conditions.


  • #8
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    How will this effect GoBÉ services?


  • #9
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    In my view there has to be some kind of cost saving from front line staff to improve the situation of the company going forward, that much is evident as after all they are losing money. Just saying no to any cuts or changes in terms and conditions isn't going to help the position of the company.

    However at the same time this is the same company that invested in a large scale upgrade of it's fleet on commercial routes last year which was backed by an extensive marketing campaign, not just online and and through the printed media, but also through extensive TV advertisements.

    The fact that the company are now saying that they need to make savings, suggests that they may have been wiser to spend less on capital spending until they had got their cost base more in order, rather than spending first and addressing the costs later.

    I do feel that the front line staff are being targeted too much in these measures and others within the company need to take more of a responsibility so I see to a point why they are unhappy. But at the same time just refusing any cuts or changes to conditions really isn't feasible.


  • #10
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Sticking during exams will not garner them much public support nor Management implementing cuts at this junction. Here is hoping some compromise is found before Sunday.


  • #11
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    devnull wrote: »
    In my view there has to be some kind of cost saving from front line staff to improve the situation of the company going forward, that much is evident as after all they are losing money. Just saying no to any cuts or changes in terms and conditions isn't going to help the position of the company.

    However at the same time this is the same company that invested in a large scale upgrade of it's fleet on commercial routes last year which was backed by an extensive marketing campaign, not just online and and through the printed media, but also through extensive TV advertisements.

    The fact that the company are now saying that they need to make savings, suggests that they may have been wiser to spend less on capital spending until they had got their cost base more in order, rather than spending first and addressing the costs later.

    I do feel that the front line staff are being targeted too much in these measures and others within the company need to take more of a responsibility so I see to a point why they are unhappy. But at the same time just refusing any cuts or changes to conditions really isn't feasible.

    I think thats the problem. If they played the game a bit and realised that some cuts have to be made then maybe it wouldnt be at the strike stage.
    Cant they see that a strike will just worsen the situation at BE? and also they will be out of pocket when they are on strike anyway.


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  • #12
    Champ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Champ


    I can't see this ending well for either the unions or the company.
    Striking when the company is in such dire financial straits may be the tipping point which actually sends it over (that is if it isn't already over).

    The proposed savings don't look too draconian if it means keeping their jobs as opposed to having no jobs at all if BE ceases to exist:
    http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-financial-crisis-labour-court-recommendations-901462-May2013/
    Among the changes recommended by the Labour Court are:
    An increase in the working week for clerical and executive staff from 36 hours to 39 hours
    Reduction in premium payments (such as Sunday payments) to be x1.5 payments rather than double payments
    Reduction in annual leave entitlement by 3 days for the next three years
    Reduction in allowances and expense payments by 20 per cent

    I doubt the frantic negotiations which are rumoured to be taking place are going to succeed given the theoretical savings were suppose to take effect months and months ago (as in zero progress with the unions and management in that time period).

    The unions are going to have to come forward with some alternative, practical proposals to make the savings otherwise they're just going to alienate the public and give the impression that they're burying their head in the sand to try to bluff the government to rescue BE which isn't going to happen as (1) said government is broke and (2) unless there are actual reforms to make BE sustainable as a company then it's just money down a black hole as the problem will just pop up again later on in the year or early next year.


  • #13
    Schnitzel Muncher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Schnitzel Muncher


    Very disappointing.


  • #14
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,574 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    godtabh wrote: »
    Sack them all. Fold BE. Tender a private operator to replace them ala the RPA/Luas and interview new drivers/drivers who will accept a sustainable wage and conditions.
    who the hell do you think you are, how dare you show contempt for public sector workers, and suggest that our boys and girls driving the busses for our state operator should be sacked for taking a legal and vital course of action that is only been taken as a last resort, and then you have the audacity to suggest that BE should be folded and replaced by private operators and new drivers interviewed adding insult to injoury just because you want to turn ireland into a place where workers have very few rights and have no choice but to except any old thing, BE is not luas, the current situation to luas is fine for that and should be only exclusive to that, ireland needs state run operators along with the private operators, a situation we have apart from the railways, the working conditions BE drivers have are vital to make sure we get the best tallent for the job, our state operators will not be replaced with a luas style operation as state run operators are vital to make sure places private operators don't wish to serve have some access to public transport

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #15
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,574 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Manach wrote: »
    Sticking during exams will not garner them much public support
    what public support, the only public support any striking workers seem to have is from me and a few others, the rest of them are of the sack them and replace with lower payed workers with lower working conditions who will just have to put up even if the working conditions get lower and lower, to be honest they don't need public support anyway, the majority of the public are to busy watching the likes of the x factor to care about whats going on in the country

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #16
    Shaneboyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 ✭Shaneboyle


    end of the road wrote: »
    who the hell do you think you are, how dare you show contempt for public sector workers, and suggest that our boys and girls driving the busses for our state operator should be sacked for taking a legal and vital course of action that is only been taken as a last resort, and then you have the audacity to suggest that BE should be folded and replaced by private operators and new drivers interviewed adding insult to injoury just because you want to turn ireland into a place where workers have very few rights and have no choice but to except any old thing, BE is not luas, the current situation to luas is fine for that and should be only exclusive to that, ireland needs state run operators along with the private operators, a situation we have apart from the railways, the working conditions BE drivers have are vital to make sure we get the best tallent for the job, our state operators will not be replaced with a luas style operation as state run operators are vital to make sure places private operators don't wish to serve have some access to public transport

    there saying though without the 7 day notice the strike is not legal!!!


  • #17
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    end of the road wrote: »
    who the hell do you think you are, how dare you show contempt for public sector workers, and suggest that our boys and girls driving the busses for our state operator should be sacked for taking a legal and vital course of action that is only been taken as a last resort,

    The fact is that the company is losing money and something needs to be done about that. I have some sympathy with the staff in that the current position of the company is not just down to them and that higher ranks of staff need to take their share of responsibility for the situation the company now finds itself in rather than placing the burden just on the front line.

    However the company cannot go on losing money and there needs to be a compromise here from both sides. The likes of BE management need to realise that they cannot force the pressure all on the front line to fix the current situation, but at the same time the front line need to realise that simply ploughing on regardless and shrugging their shoulders and saying it's not their problem isn't viable either.

    For example the fact that there clearly are executives and admin staff who are even arguing over 39 hour weeks instead of 36 hours is crazy and that is one of the aspects that I am outraged by as it sticks out the most as being the one condition that should have even existed in the first place. I have no sympathy for people who see that as being some major problem to them.

    The fact is to deal with this situation, unions, staff and management alike must all work together and come up with some plan that works to help the situation the company it is in at the moment. At the moment Bus Eireann are trying to pin the blame all on the staff and the staff are trying to say that none of it should be down to them. With this kind of attitude from both sides no wonder there is a strike.

    BE need to realise that there are some changes and improvements to spending etc that they can make that don't involve pay cuts to front line staff, but at the same time staff need to realise that retaining every single one of their existing terms is simply not possible in the current climate and the country does not have any more money to bail the company out.


  • #18
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,886 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Irish Rail could gain some long term passengers on some of BE expressway routes who left the train for whatever reason but now they my be impressed with the improvment in times and prepared to pay the higher fare.


  • #19
    Columbia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Columbia


    What is it Bus Eireann drivers threatening strike action during college exams? Did exactly the same thing in January.


  • #20
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Generally you will find with strikes in transport they will try and plan them to happen at times when it is the least convenient for the public or the company that is in dispute with it's workers. This is a tactic that is not unique to Ireland and can often be seen being played out in the UK for example - not saying if this is the case here however.

    The reason being is this is a tactical move on behalf of the unions, since the company are more likely to back down or reach out further to avert action if it is on a day when they are expecting bumper revenue, a time of national event or a big day in the Irish calendar, since the damage will be less to their reputation, goodwill or the public on a mid-winter Wednesday during half term.


  • #21
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Patser


    Columbia wrote: »
    What is it Bus Eireann drivers threatening strike action during college exams? Did exactly the same thing in January.

    devnull wrote: »
    Generally you will find with strikes in transport they will try and plan them to happen at times when it is the least convenient for the public or the company that is in dispute with it's workers. This is a tactic that is not unique to Ireland and can often be seen being played out in the UK for example.

    The reason being is this is a tactical move on behalf of the unions, since the company are more likely to back down or reach out further to avert action if it is on a day when they are expecting bumper revenue, a time of national event or a big day in the Irish calendar, since the damage will be less to their reputation, goodwill or the public on a mid-winter Wednesday during half term.

    Drivers haven't chosen this time to to strike. There will only be a strike if the new terms and conditions are brought in. It was the management who picked this date to bring in the changes, so that's when the strike would begin. Also it's not just drivers but mechanics, clerical staff etc that have all balloted for strike action (at least earlier in the year, before it went back for renegotiation that management decided was happening too slow).

    So timing of strike nothing personal and not picked deliberately, just in reaction to implementation of what is causing the dispute.


    Away from this, I am a BE driver and there has recently been warnings placed up around our depot and Bus Aras warning staff not to use 'social media' to comment on the company, so not sure how far I can comment on the potential strike without exceeding that warning.


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  • #22
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Patser wrote: »
    Drivers haven't chosen this time to to strike. There will only be a strike if the new terms and conditions are brought in. It was the management who picked this date to bring in the changes, so that's when the strike would begin.

    But the union, who represents staff has clearly said today that their position is that they are not willing to take any cuts to any of the conditions that have been outlined.

    That indicates to me there has been no attempt at a compromise. On the other hand however, I haven't heard anything from Bus Eireann that suggests they are going to compromise either.
    Also it's not just drivers but mechanics, clerical staff etc that have all balloted for strike action

    Yes - that is clear since clerical and admin staff are moaning about having to be present for a full working week rather than the 36 hour week they are working at the moment.
    Away from this, I am a BE driver and there has recently been warnings placed up around our depot and Bus Aras warning staff not to use 'social media' to comment on the company, so not sure how far I can comment on the potential strike without exceeding that warning.

    That is unfortunate if that is the case, as long as people are posting correct information that does not fall foul of any laws I don't see why they should be stopped, but I can understand why companies wouldn't like it.


  • #23
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Patser


    devnull wrote: »
    But the union, who represents staff has clearly said today that their position is that they are not willing to take any cuts to any of the conditions that have been outlined.

    Sorry, maybe I should have made that a bit clearer. I mean the timing of the strike is dependant on the changes being brought on. Obviously there being a strike is decided by the staff but we did not deliberately chose to time it during exam times.
    devnull wrote: »
    That is unfortunate if that is the case, as long as people are posting correct information that does not fall foul of any laws I don't see why they should be stopped, but I can understand why companies wouldn't like it.

    Correct factual information is fine and grand but for me to get into giving reasonings behind what drivers might be feeling and the likes veers away from dry facts. If I post my opinions on the changes, that's not a fact, so I run the risk of that warning.


  • #24
    The_Wrecker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    Patser wrote: »
    Correct factual information is fine and grand but for me to get into giving reasonings behind what drivers might be feeling and the likes veers away from dry facts. If I post my opinions on the changes, that's not a fact, so I run the risk of that warning.

    Stick to facts that are available to outsiders through other sources. Still not worth rocking the boat after the prior cases that brought this about.


  • #25
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Terrible news. I'm very dependent on this service on Monday so I'm just wondering if there's any chance the strike doesn't go ahead?


  • #26
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Patser wrote: »
    Sorry, maybe I should have made that a bit clearer. I mean the timing of the strike is dependant on the changes being brought on. Obviously there being a strike is decided by the staff but we did not deliberately chose to time it during exam times.

    Sorry if you thought I was saying that - I was just speaking in generic terms that it is common that strikes will normally be timed for the biggest impact, although it's clear that is not the case in this situation.
    Correct factual information is fine and grand but for me to get into giving reasonings behind what drivers might be feeling and the likes veers away from dry facts. If I post my opinions on the changes, that's not a fact, so I run the risk of that warning.

    See your point - For what it's worth I have some sympathy with both sides.


  • #27
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Patser


    Paully D wrote: »
    Terrible news. I'm very dependent on this service on Monday so I'm just wondering if there's any chance the strike doesn't go ahead?

    I can't tell you much Paully. Us drivers are hearing very, very little. Back in January a strike that was threatened over this, it was stopped on the friday before it happened. This new trouble came out of no-where on Tuesday last week and really caught us by surprise. In the depots we're being told very little but in contrast with what happened in January, the language we're hearing (from radio reports, the same place everyone else is getting their info) sounds much tougher. The likes of Varadkar, Gilmore saying this has to happen and no jobs to go back to.

    So as things stand I've heard nothing about what is expected of me if there is a strike (and since I've never been on strike I haven't really any idea beyond the obvious what's involved), so that suggests efforts are still going on the stop it. But you'll probably here of any changes through the news, same as I will.


  • #28
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Patser wrote: »
    I can't tell you much Paully. Us drivers are hearing very, very little. Back in January a strike that was threatened over this, it was stopped on the friday before it happened. This new trouble came out of no-where on Tuesday last week and really caught us by surprise. In the depots we're being told very little but in contrast with what happened in January, the language we're hearing (from radio reports, the same place everyone else is getting their info) sounds much tougher. The likes of Varadkar, Gilmore saying this has to happen and no jobs to go back to.

    So as things stand I've heard nothing about what is expected of me if there is a strike (and since I've never been on strike I haven't really any idea beyond the obvious what's involved), so that suggests efforts are still going on the stop it. But you'll probably here of any changes through the news, same as I will.

    Appreciate the response mate. Best of luck.


  • #29
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Whatever about Expressway being privatised, I think all parties concerned should be very careful about privatising the PSO service. In my experience I've only ever seen the London model to work. It would be awful to see cities like Cork and Limerick to be without services after 7pm.


  • #30
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Patser wrote: »
    Sorry, maybe I should have made that a bit clearer. I mean the timing of the strike is dependant on the changes being brought on. Obviously there being a strike is decided by the staff but we did not deliberately chose to time it during exam times.
    Ah that's kind of like saying they made you do it. You could call off the strike all by yourselves.


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  • #31
    EnoughIsEnough
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭EnoughIsEnough


    Strikes are only solved by people sitting down around a table.

    Both sides (Management and unions) need to take a step back and consider the travelling public and decide to talk TO each other rather than AT each other via the media in a point scoring exercise.

    In the meantime commuters like myself who hold monthly and annual tickets are forced to look for alternative travel arrangements.

    Does anyone know of a local or national website where someone can seek to arrange a lift ? I found one site called www.GetThere.ie which includes a Car Sharing section and wonder if anyone has experience of it or can recommend another site as I travel 106 km (return journey) daily from West Cork to the city and need a reliable alternative.


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